BrentAllen

Sense of humour, that is being able to see a funny side to even a dangerous or unpleasant situation, is of the highest value to a man in going through life. I deplore the modern tendency to place "safety first" before all else. A certain amount of risk is necessary to life, a certain amount of taking risks is necessary to the prolongation of life. Scouts have to be prepared to encounter difficulties and dangers in life. We do not, therefore, want to make their training too soft. "Safety first" is too readily adopted as a fetish and as a screen by the more timid and lazily inclined.

There was not a single negative word about OGE in my post. I used a scene from Stripes - a comedy - to illustrate a difference of opinion. He felt very strongly about preventing another Scout from experiencing what he had gone through; I thought his reaction was over the top. I love a good battle of wits. That is what pranks should be - a good, clean battle of wits. Pulling a knife is not a prank, in any way, shape or form, so your analogy is bad. Some people enjoy the exchange of pranks, but some don't. OGE didn't, recognized it, and did the best thing. There is nothing worse than someone who can't take it, but dishes it out. They end up over-reacting to a simple prank by slashing someone's sleeping bag or burning their boots. I obviously wasn't there with OGE, so I can only make guesses about the situation. If those were the only two pranks that Charlie pulled on OGE during their Scouting years, I would find it hard to consider them bullying. If there was constant pranking and teasing of OGE, that would be bullying, which I do not tolerate. A level-headed Scout does not want to end up before The Man (SPL, SM, CD, ...) because of a prank, so he usually selects his target carefully. Picking on the weakest, most homesick Scout would not be a wise decision. Sometimes, it is actually a sign of respect when a target of a prank is chosen. The last part of my post was a simple observation in life. Outside of Scouting, in the real world, the bullies will seek out those with a thin skin and no sense of humor. A bully is looking to get a rise out of someone - they are the best targets.

...mental image of OGE as SPL addressing his Troop, personified as Francis "Psycho" Soyer in the movie Stripes... "Any of you Scouts pull a Snipe hunt, I'll kill you. Any of you Scouts call for a Canon Report, I'll kill you." Quoting Sgt. Hulka, "Lighten up, Francis." At first, I was going to ask why you couldn't come up with your own prank to pull on your idol, Charlie. But then I thought of the old saying, "Don't dish it out if you can't take it." It's pretty obvious you couldn't take it. My fraternity at Georgia Tech was full of Eagle Scouts. So much so, that as a Pledge, when you were asked to give 3 interesting facts about a Brother, we had a saying, "when in doubt, Eagle Scout!" You had around a 90% chance of being correct. These guys were some of the greatest pranksters I have ever known. Hiding a motorcycle in the shower; hoisting a canoe WAY up in an oak tree; mailing a dead opossum to another Brother, disquised as a care package from mom; sheetrocking, mudding and painting a wall over a Brother's room door over Christmas break; hanging all the furniture in a Brother's room from the ceiling upside down, making it look like the entire room was upside down. Maybe the cruelest, psychologically, involved a Brother who was a very talented architect student. He designed our Homecoming display that year, and put a lot of work into it. While using our beat-up circular saw, with a bent blade guard that didn't always fall back in place, he cut a 2x4 and then set the saw down on his thigh, just above the knee. Luckily, he had his finger off the trigger, so the cut was only 1" deep (requiring 60 stitches in 3 layers). After returning from the hospital late that night, and struggling to crawl up in his rack, he found that same circular saw, hidden in the sheets. We saved the truly bad stuff for our neighbors, the SAE's. Some day, I'll share the one about the Krispy Kreme donuts their Little Sisters supposedly left on their front porch for them one morning, only to get a picture the following day about where those donuts had really been. Some of us are born with a thick skin, others develop it. Some of us are born with a sense of humor, others develop it. Some aren't, and never do, and suffer because of it. They often have an imaginary neon bullseye painted on their back.

I ran into a friend of yours this weekend. Bob Higgins was one of the instructors at the Wilderness First Aid Course I attended through our Council. Sitting around the campfire late Saturday night, we started talking about High Adventure, and he mentioned the sea kayaking at Savannah. I said I knew someone on the internet from Penn. who did that last summer, and he said "Eamonn?" I just got through viewing a couple hundred photos of your trip - get some sun on those legs! :-) Bob wanted to know if you needed any more grits? He'd be happy to send them your way! :-)

Calico, Tip of the hat to you!! A great story of how actions speak louder than words! May we all learn from your example! YiS, Brent

We are trying a different approach this year with our Pack, and holding our FOS presentation at our Pinewood Derby. Our B&G program is usually pretty crowded, so moving it to another event will keep B&G from running too long. Also, at PWD, the parents and the boys are having a great time, and the parents see how much fun their sons are having. A good time to ask for a donation. Our Golden Eagle breakfast this year is featuring Jeff Foxworthy. We have expanded our seating capacity, and our goal, and it looks like we might have to bring in more tables! Invitees to this event know we are looking for a 4-digit donation. Last year we had around 115 attend, this year we are shooting for around 150.

Don't forget today (12/23) is Festivus for the Rest Of Us Day! Can't wait for the Airing of Grievances and Feats of Strength! Happy Festivus! 'Seinfeld' Spurs Festivus Pole Sales By DINESH RAMDE Associated Press Writer MILWAUKEE Kevin Campanella hates buying and receiving Christmas presents that he says inevitably disappoint. This year, no such worries. Campanella plans to seek "serenity now" by celebrating Festivus, a wacky holiday popularized in a 1997 "Seinfeld" episode. Billed as "Festivus for the rest of us," the holiday celebrated by the Costanza clan on Dec. 23 features an airing of grievances and feats of strength in which a guest must pin the host before the party ends. In protest of Christmas' commercialism, character Frank Costanza puts up an unadorned aluminum pole instead of a tree. The metal, he says admiringly, has a "very high strength-to-weight ratio." "I just always loved that episode," said Campanella, 28, a landscaper from Warwick, R.I. "But it's not so much about the show I think the idea of Festivus is a good idea." So does The Wagner Companies. The Milwaukee-based maker of hand-railing components is bringing back its line of Festivus poles for the holiday season. The company had plenty of metal rails on hand already and launched the product last year on a whim. "We did it mainly as a lark. We never looked at it as a tremendous moneymaking scheme," said Tony Leto, the firm's executive vice president of sales and marketing. "But in many ways, Festivus is taking on a life of its own." Wagner, which made $15 million last year from products including handrail brackets and pipe elbows, earned only a few thousand dollars from Festivus pole sales. Leto said the company received some media publicity upon launch of the poles but he credits bloggers with strong "Seinfeld" loyalties for spreading the news far and wide. Wagner sold about 250 poles in 2005, with around 100 sales coming from the firm's 120 employees. This season, it sold about 300 poles by mid-December and was on pace to sell twice that number by Saturday, said Leto, whose claim to fame is that he shared a drama class with Jerry Seinfeld at Queens College in New York. Wagner offers a 6-foot Festivus pole for $38 and a 2-foot-8-inch tabletop model for $30. The setup is simple: a hollow pipe, 1.9 inches in diameter, inserted into a collapsible aluminum base. Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, a "Seinfeld" fanatic who claims to have seen every episode eight times, proudly displayed one of the company's poles last year at the governor's mansion in Madison. But Doyle said he will donate the pole to the Wisconsin Historical Museum after reports that "Seinfeld" co-star Michael Richards used racial slurs during a standup comedy routine last month. Leto said he hoped the Richards incident wouldn't affect his company's sales. "Fans know it was a Costanza holiday, not a Kramer holiday," he said, referring to characters Frank Costanza, played by Jerry Stiller, and Cosmo Kramer, played by Richards. "Anyway, Kramer eventually rejects the holiday at the end of the episode." Gabriel Morales, 32, of Atlanta, said Richards' tirade didn't keep him from ordering a Festivus pole earlier this month. "You know, people make mistakes, they say stupid things," said Morales, an information technology analyst who held his Festivus party early this year to coincide with a monthly dinner club. "No one at the party really cared about that either." The "Seinfeld" Festivus episode developed from series writer Dan O'Keefe's childhood experiences. His father invented the holiday in the 1960s. "As a kid, we'd come home and there'd be weird decorations," said the 30-something O'Keefe. "There was the playing of strange German and Italian pop music from the '50s. And the airing of grievances was a real thing." Instead of a pole, his family celebration featured a clock and a bag. (O'Keefe said his father won't say what they symbolized.) Wagner's Leto acknowledged the irony of making money off a holiday that celebrates anti-commercialism. But the company is having too much fun with the holiday to stop now, he said. O'Keefe doesn't begrudge Wagner's commercial efforts. "It sounds to me like they're making a good living good for them," O'Keefe said. "It's just this joke holiday on a TV show. If they want to make a buck on it, go for it." Or, as Seinfeld might say, not that there's anything wrong with that.

brian writes "Is this new since 1998? Are kids that much more busy post 1998 than pre 1998 that it would influence numbers, some as much as 10.9% drop in a single year? Is this a valid contributor to a point that kids activities have increased magically post 1998 vs pre 1998 to have that huge of an new, extra affect it did not have before?" I think it is a much more realistic reason for the continued drop than maintaining a "dorky" uniform. Wait, I forgot - the 10.9% drop was in Venturing, where they don't have a "dorky" uniform. Bounce back from the gay issue? Not likely, unless BSA were to change their position, which I and others think would cost them much more than would be gained. IMHO, the two biggest single events to cause a noticeable drop in membership were: 1. The 2000 decision allowing the BSA to exclude gays. 2. The 2004/2005 fraudulent membership fiasco and the roll cleaning that followed. I think the Tiger program has caused a drop in Boy Scouts - some boys or parents are burned out by time the hit 5th/6th grade, and see ending elementary school as a good place to hop off the Scout train. I personally think 1st Grade is too early to start, and if I could change anything, it would be to do away with Tigers.

What happened around 1998? That was when the 3 G's started appearing - attacks on the BSA about God, gays and girls. The 2000 case about gays was, and still is, a big issue. The BSA lost membership after that decision from some families on the left. They saw the BSA as bigoted and prejudiced, and didn't want to be part of the organization any more. I think they were wrong about the BSA, but I can't convince them of it. The membership inflation scandal here in Atlanta caused a decline in membership in the black community. They were told they were being used by the Council to bring in money from private companies and the United Way. I don't think that was the case at all. The bad publicity definitely cost some real membership numbers, and our roles dropped as they were cleaned of any remaining ghost units. There are so many other activities for boys today - swim teams, soccer, chess clubs, martial arts, band, music lessons, more summer camps (YMCA, Space Camp, etc...), more traveling teams in sports - playing year-round. Don't tell me the boys have more free time today, either. My 5th grade son has more homework now than I had in high school! In my youth, we played baseball and that was about it during the summer. We had lots of down time for just backyard play. I don't see that anymore. Add to the mix more single parents, more kids born out of wedlock, more divorces. When these single parent families are just trying to make ends meet and get to school on time, Scouts isn't even a possibility. So there are a number of reasons for a decline in Scout membership. The uniform and neckerchief don't amount to even a tiny fraction of the reasons. But or course, I've said that many times before in these threads. I'm sure it won't register this time either, so why do I bother???

brian, Your reluctance to give any details of your trip leaves us to our own conclusions, and wondering why you are so reluctant to discuss it. You surely can't expect us to give an opinion with such limited knowledge. I'll go ahead and give the details on my ticket item. As part of a 3 week family trip to South Africa and Namibia, we spent 4 days in Cape Town. Before leaving, I contacted a Cub leader there through the internet, starting out discussing patch trading. He turned out to be our personal guide in Cape Town. My son and I visited 2 Packs with him, one white (well to do) and one black (very poor). When we visited the black Pack, the leaders came out to escort us in from our vehicle - the crime in the area was that bad. The boys were from extremely poor families, but they were there, being Scouts. Some wore their khaki uniforms, others couldn't afford them. Very few patches were on any of the uniforms. When they had inspection, each boy was asked if he had coins for a phone call, and also coins for a friend to make a phone call. I think only 1 boy had any coins at all. They sang songs, and played a simple game of passing a potato down the line, from neck to neck, without using their hands. My son and our guide's son fit in right with them. They were fascinated with our uniforms, with all the patches and colors. The white Pack was much different. For one thing, they were affiliated with a Sea Scout unit, so they wore a different uniform, very similar in color to our Cub Scouts. They had all the patches and wore a very nice neckerchief - much more expensive than the other Pack. They had their own building and had a lot of equipment. The other Pack met in a school gym, which was in pretty bad condition. While there were dramatic differences in the physical appearance, the boys in both Packs were doing Scouting, and they were having a lot of fun doing it. I could see B-P's dream right in front of me - a program that would interest, and connect, boys from different countries, cultures and socio-economic backgrounds. It was simply amazing! I took a boatload of patches and books to trade with Gavin, our guide. He was trading with Scouts all over the world through the internet, and had an impressive collection. I also took a couple of our ScoutStuff catalogs. When I showed it to him, he was speechless. He couldn't believe all the different Scout "things" that were available. They had one Scout shop, at their area headquarters. It was very small, and offered only a few items other than uniforms. Gavin gave one of our cataloges to the woman in charge, telling her that was going to be their new inventory - she was not amused - but I did see her later scanning each and every page! I had let Gavin know I was interested in making a donation to help the black Pack. While at their Scout shop, he did some calculating, and figured out what it would cost to pay for all the patches for the boys in the Pack. It came up to $120 Rand, which was around $20 US at the time. That was the best $20 US I spent on the whole trip. The woman there credited it to their account, and as the boys earned the patches, they would receive them. I brought back plenty of patches, including all their Cub Scout (Cheetah, Leopard, Lion, Leaping Wolf, Link Badge) and Boy Scout rank awards, and made a framed display of them. (Trivia - what is the top rank award in South Africa, the equivalent of our Eagle?) Their uniforms and patches aren't as high of quality as ours, but their hats are extremely nice. Each Boy Scout unit can have their own baseball-style hat, embroidered on the front with their unit name and design (the Cubs wear the green beanies). The Scout's name is embroidered across the back, in fairly large letters. Gavin had hats from their unit (1st Bergvliet Sea Scouts) made up for me and my son, with our names across the back as well - a very nice gift! We also traided several neckerchiefs - Gavin had a very nice collection of them at his home. I also took a US BSA International neckerchief as a gift to their Council HQ - the one they had in their collection was very outdated. They had some pretty impressive B-P memorabilia there. I took all this material - photos of the 2 Pack visits, patches, neckerchiefs, Kudu horn, books, hats, etc... - and produced a PowerPoint presentation with displays on the international brotherhood of Scouting, and the history, focusing on B-P's time in South Africa. The main point was to talk about where the idea for Scouting originated, and to let our Scouts know they were part of a international movement, with Scout brothers all over the world. I made this presentation to 3 Packs in our District. I have no idea how much money or time I invested in my Ticket - that wasn't important to me. The final product or result was my focus, and at the end of the day, I was very pleased with the outcome. It was a great experience for me, and I wear my beads proudly. I wear them as a reminder that I must now earn them every day. The beading ceremony, which my father and my SM from my youth participated in, was not the end - it was a new beginning. If WB isn't a life-changing experience, then it was just a project. The lessons learned are to be applied day in and day out - new tickets developed and worked. WB'rs are some of the busiest people I know - because they know how to get things done.

brian, You can't ask our opinion on something and not give us enough information to form an opinion. Saying you went to another country to study their culture is extremely vague. Where you went, what you studied, was it related to Scouts, what you learned and what you did with the information are all legitimate, important questions. If you can't answer those questions, then we can only make our own assumptions, which at this point won't be very favorable. One of my ticket items was similar to this, and I will share the details, after you share yours. Fair enough? nldscout, FScouter has a hair trigger on his edit key. The other moderators appear to have the standard 4.5 lb trigger weight on theirs. We'll see if this survives.

Yep, you are right - the crime down here is terrible. Tell all your friends, so maybe they will stop moving down here. We are crowded enough already, the traffic is awful. We appreciate the extra congressional seats your transplants are giving us, but to be honest, they just aren't worth it.

Maybe you live in Mayberry, but here in the Atlanta area, we have real crimes. As a taxpayer, I want the police going after real criminals, not busting Boy Scouts for forging a signature on a merit badge card. The lesson that needs to be taught can be handled by Troop leadership, without involving the police or the courts. Speaking of judges, I saw something similar happen regarding high school students and the school principal. The seniors (Scout age, but not Scouts) came up with the idea of putting the body of an old Cherokee van in the school courtyard as a prank. This required using a boom truck to lift it to the roof, so they could carry it to the courtyard. They were caught at 1:00 AM and arrested. The principal pressed charges for trespassing and breaking and entering (they never actually entered the building proper). It went to court, with one of the students representing the group, almost Animal House-style. After hearing both arguments, the judge turned to the principal and gave him a stern lecture about wasting the court's time with an issue that should have been handled at the school. He told the principal that since he had wasted his and the court's time, he (the principal) could not punish the students and they were to be allowed to graduate. Upon graduation, the students' records would be wiped cleaned. Did they break the law? Yes. Was it a serious crime? No. Should it have been handled by the school administration? Yes.

Take this to the police, and you will either get laughed out of the precinct, or a big set of rolled eyes and a "NEXT!" They will tell you they only have time to deal with real crimes, and don't bother them with such petty issues. If the officer isn't in a hurry, he will probably add in a little lecture about "if you can't handle these sorts of issues in your Troop, you have no business being a leader..."

brianbuf, I'm curious - what did you learn about the culture you studied? Did this tie in with Scouting, or was it just the general culture of the country? Can you tell us which country you visited?

Eamonn, Here in Georgia, there aren't too many camping locations large enough to handle a Pack our size. One source which can handle us is the State Parks, where you have to reserve (at least 6 months in advance to get the spots we need) and pay a non-refundable first-night deposit. You are looking at $40 for the weekend per family. Do 2 camping trips a year and you are at $80. Compare that to going to one of our Council Reservations, which are essentially free. I see that as an $80 value per family right off the top. Now add in the services of our DE, staff to answer the phone at Program, coordinate training, file Tour permits, handle tickets for Scout Night at the Circus/Braves/Thrashers/Hawks, keep track of advancement, handle Summer camp requests, etc... yes, I see a lot of value for my money.

Am I visiting the Scouter forums? Wow - our Scouting world is a lot different here in Hightower Trail District, Atlanta Area Council. Our District (volunteers, not Pros) has set our own FOS Community goal, which is higher than what Council had set for us. We have a Golden Eagle breakfast with a guest speaker, at one of the nicer Country Clubs in Atlanta. Last year we had the president of Chik-Fil-A, this year we have Jeff Foxworthy. Our goal last year was to raise $100,000 that morning, and I think we ended up around $114,000. Our goal is higher this year; we are adding a few more tables for an increase in attendance. As a table host, my goal is to invite 6 to 8 people there who are capable and willing of making at least a $1,000 donation. This can be a single check, or spread out over 12 months. I make a $1,000 donation because I do see where it goes - we have fantastic camps, and a great program. I do it because I know this is the best program my son will ever participate in. Nothing is free, and none of your small registration fee goes to your Council. Around here, a typical sports league will cost $100 and run for 3 months. Play a full year and it costs you $400 - which goes to cover the use of the gym/sports field, referees/umpires and other officials. Comparing that to Scouting, your FOS donation goes to maintain the Council properties and pays the staff. I would consider $400 a bargain for what my son and I get out of our Council! Our Council is a great asset to our units. What a shame some of you are so jaded towards your Councils. If you don't support your Council, I don't see how you can complain later when they have to sell properties or reduce services. I guess I'm just fortunate to be where I am in the Scouting community. For the record, I have made some FOS presentations to Packs - it isn't the easiest thing to do. Before you go busting the presenter's chops, hop up there and try it yourself.

The Troops around here operate as described by OneHour and Beaver - with one exception. An adult must be in full uniform if he is going to be in the Troop meeting for any period of time. This is the boys' rule, not the adults'. Adults must go through training to wear the uniform in the Troop. This helps keep those busy-body parents who don't understand the program from doing any damage, if you will. The adults have a separate area where they meet. I like their plan.

WDL Mom, Before you send that email, you might ask the CC or SM if they conduct exit interviews of the boys and families of the boys that leave. If they don't conduct them, you might be lucky at planting the seed. I wouldn't hold my breath on it, but maybe they will take a hint that you have some thoughts you would like to share.

Ol' Brian is a piece of work! He accuses Scoutnut of lying about him, when all he did was make a reasonable assumption based on statements Brian hade made. Then he turns around and accuses Miki101 of flat out making up numbers! Yeah, boy! Miki, your numbers can't be true - they would mess up his whole website if they were correct! As I have mentioned before, local Packs here had a great recruiting season this fall. I was curious to see overall numbers.

WDL Mom, I had one other thought, coming from my experience as a Den Guide at Day Camp. That first hour of the first morning, the boys are all sort of nervous about the whole experience. The first thing I do is try to break the ice and learn their names. The easiest way for me to learn someone's name is to learn something about them. So we go around the circle and each boy states his name, his Pack, his favorite subject in school, worst subject, favorite tv show, favorite drink and favorite dessert. That gives me a "profile" for each boy to help with the names, and allows the boys to see where they may have some common interests with each other. By time we get to the last boy, they feel like they have known each for other for some time, not just 15 minutes. Not sure if you can apply this directly to an existing group, but maybe after the Christmas holidays, let the boys go around the circle and tell about anything exciting they did over the break. Maybe they will find some common interest that way. Sounds to me like you are already doing an excellent job. Maybe push the tenting, and either draw names out of a hat for tent mates, or come up with a game with a rule that they can't tent with the same boy or boys on the next trip. Once they share a tent, staying up late at night telling stories, they seem to bond, most of the time.

Gonzo, You may not have read all of brianbuf's posts, but in one he mentions wearing his uniform, including his WB neckerchief I believe, and his son said he looked like a dork. So, because of one kid's opinion, we need to all get rid of our neckerchiefs. My Troop from my youth had custom ones made which were and are very popular with the boys and adults. They are still using the same design. FYI brianbuf - the boys in the Troop get to vote on making the neckerchief part of their Troop uniform. If you see a Troop wearing them, it is most likely because the boys decided they want to wear them. Are you going to tell them they can't? Are you aware of all the uses of a neckerchief, especially for first aid? What about baseball stirrup socks? I'd say they are an icon from an era long gone, but they are still used in Major League Baseball. And what about those 100 year old pinstripe uniforms? Who would want to wear that old design, when they could be wearing some new, modern uniform?? Hey brianbuf, maybe some of us, including the boys, believe in this thing called "tradition." For examples of the above, please see "Yankees fan."

Rudyard Kipling used the swastika as a logo on his books, before the Nazis took the symbol. It was a Hindu good luck symbol, and in Kipling's time, a Hindu trader would open his annual account-book with a swastika in order "to ensure an auspicious beginning." I have a first edition copy of his "Land And Sea Tales For Scouts And Scout Masters", and it has the swastika logo on the title page. Different times.

Uh.... read the title of this thread.

Ed, Thanks for pointing that out - not sure how I could have missed that. Crew 21, I'm guessing you are probably scratching your head like I am, after reading the response to your posts. I'm not sure if someone is just looking for a bunch of hits on a web page, or wants to be the saviour so bad they can't see what is happening right in front of their face. No one wanted Scouting to be relevant until a few months ago? No one had reviewed or updated the merit badges or books until then? There weren't any updates to the uniform (Switchbacks?) until a certain web page appeared? I guess I'm just wondering how the numbers have continued to slip the past 2 years since this Scout-saving video has been available? Me, personally, I just think we need "virtual Scouting" so all of the boys in the country can sit on the sofa at home, never have to wear a uniform, but yet be in Scouts. Just 1 hour a week and you can make Eagle! Man, there goes that sarcasm thing again. I need to see a doc and get that fixed.