BrentAllen

Sorry to inform you packsaddle, but gays have taken your flag as their own. Flying it signifies you are homosexual, or a proud (sometimes militant) supporter of Gay Pride. Hey, I know how you feel. I can't fly the Confederate Battle flag without someone assuming I am a member of the KKK. It stinks when someone steals your symbols.

Uh, where is Tom Delay these days? Speaker of the House? Let's look at the Republicans that have screwed up and are gone: Foley Delay Cunningham Ney Now, let's look at Democrats who screwed up and are still around: Ted Kennedy Barny Frank William Jefferson Patric Leahy Harry Reid Now, do you still want to talk about the Party of ethics and morals? I'll be glad to! packsaddle, I've seen grand predictions of Democratic wins unravel like a cheap sweater in the last 3 elections. It actually was a lot of fun to watch Terry McAuliffe promising the world to Democrats going into election day, and then have to try to explain their losses on Wednesday mornings. Do you really think Howard Dean is going to do any better? An article in the Washington Post describes Karl Rove as "almost inexplicably upbeat" about the upcoming elections. Don't know about you, but I wouldn't bet against Rove and his record. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/14/AR2006101401051_pf.html I guess we will see in a few weeks.

I guess the truth - and the facts - really hurt, don't they. And I guess it is a real bummer when the Democrats' October Surprise blows up in their faces. I say bring on a full investigation of both the House and the Senate. Find out exactly who knew what and when. Let the chips fall where they may. Unlike Democrats, Republicans will clean their house; Democrats will just promote their criminals.

Gern, Please show me where anyone has excused his behaviour! I just like to deal in facts and the truth - something the left has little use for - why let the facts get in the way of a good story! First, you accuse me of having a limited, right-wing only news source. Then, when I point out the facts, which don't fit your preconceived story, you claim my facts aren't facts. I guess we are back to using the argument "It depends on what the definition of "is" is." How sad. If you followed the link I provided, you would have your answers. Since you apparently didn't, here they are, from Brian Ross himself, regarding the IM's during the House vote: "This message was dated April 2003, at approximately 7 p.m., according to the message time stamp at a time when the teen had been 18 for just six weeks. (Some sharp online readers spotted that the boy was technically legal when the exchange took place)." I guess that really took the air out of Brian Ross's balloon when the boy turned out to be legal. Now, what he has is the transcript of an electronic conversation that took place between two consenting adults (where have I heard that before??). An online reader figures this out, but Investigative Reporter Brian Ross couldn't? Gee, this is starting to sound familiar - kind of like readers noticing the forgeries Dan Rather was pushing. I make no apologies or excuses for Foley. I think what he did was very wrong, and he should have resigned. The fact is he is gone, and his name is Mudd. Let's compare that to Clinton, who stayed in office and is championed as the great leader of his party. Yes, let's talk about the Party of morals. Now, let's look back at how the two parties handled ACTUAL sexual relations with underage Congressional pages. In 1983, two Congressman, Republican Dan Crane and Democrat Gerry Studds were both found guilty by the House Ethics Committee of engaging in sexual activity with 17-year-old congressional pages. Then-Congressman Newt Gingrich demanded their immediate expulsion but Democratic leaders instead led the vote for censure. Dan Crane tearfully apologized for his actions, accepted his censure, and was promptly voted out of office. Democrat Gerry Studds however stood by his relationship with a 17-year-old boy, refused to apologize, and even turned his back and ignored the official House censure being read to him. His Democratic colleagues gave him a standing ovation and even voted for him to chair a Congressional Committee. He served for 12 more years as Democrats in Massachusetts continued to elect this admitted pedophile. Instead of accepting his censure in shame, Studds went on the attack and even held a press conference with his former teenage partner where he blamed others and said his actions were nobodys business but his own. In part Studds address to the House reads, It is not a simple task for any of us to meet adequately the obligations of either public or private life, let alone both, but these challenges are made substantially more complex when one is, as I am, both an elected official and gay. Yes, I sleep fine at night. (This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

Gern, I guess it is just too hard for you to say my favorite words "You are right." Nice try at a dodge, though. Which states have age of consent at age 16 (or younger)? Try Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, Conn., Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Mass., Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Penn, R.I., South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming. http://www.amber-net.org/amberstatutes.htm Might be hard to prosecute Foley, if he didn't actually break any laws, eh? "Anyone who suppressed information that kept these kids in danger of this predator for even 1 hour because they were putting party over responsibility should resign immediately. I don't know how they sleep at night. For that matter, I don't know how any of these apologists sleep either. " I agree with you here. That would be interesting, considering ABC and other news sources sat on this story since August and earlier. Remember - several have said it was a Democrat operative who was shopping the story around. "In May, a source put me in touch with a Democratic operative who provided me with the now-infamous emails that Foley had sent in 2004 to a sixteen-year-old page." Ken Silverstein, Harper's Magazine (not exactly a right-wing publication) I say let this investigation run from coast to coast. I've heard more than one Democrat keep saying "I never SAW the emails and IM's" when asked "Were you AWARE of the emails and IM's." As they get pressed about whether they were AWARE of them, not if they SAW them, they keep using the word "SAW." Sounds like a very carefully worded dodge. Put them all on the stand, under oath, and find out who knew what, and when.

Gern, I tried to be nice by saying you need to check your facts. Here is the harsh truth - you need to go to respectable sources for the news, instead of just reading DemocraticUnderground, Huffingtonpost and DailyKos. Because once again, you are absolutely wrong! Here is the news from ABC (one of many sources I use). The IM's were not with a page as you state, but with a former page. Please, get your facts straight. Don't just repeat leftist, liberal spin. "Former Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL) interrupted a vote on the floor of the House in 2003 to engage in Internet sex with a high school student who had served as a congressional page, according to new Internet instant messages provided to ABC News by former pages." http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/new_foley_insta.html As to whether Foley committed any crimes, unless you know more than the FBI, I suggest you wait for the investigation to take its course. "The FBI also is investigating, trying to determine whether any crimes were committed by Foley." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/12/politics/main2084565.shtml

Gern, You should check your facts. It appears the really sick IM's were sent to former pages - those age 18 and older. The emails were sent to pages. Also, the age of consent is not the same in all states - in many states, it is 16 years of age. So, even though what Foley did was disgusting to most of us, it may not have been against the law. Comparing Foley to Clinton - so far, we have no evidence of Foley having any physical contact with any page or former page. We have plenty of evidence of Clinton having sex and performing other sexual acts with Lewinsky. Also, Foley is not married, while Clinton is, at least on paper (sanctity of marriage?). I haven't seen or heard Foley, wagging his finger in the face of the American people, lie about what he did. Now if you want to talk about ironic, how about Dirty Harry Reid, vice-chair of the Senate Ethics committee, taking home a cool $million on property he didn't own. Where are the front page stories on this one??? If he was a Republican, the press would be all over him like ticks on a hound!

But Gern, as you pointed out, we haven't been attacked since we pulled our troops out of Saudi, so based on your "reasonable person" assumption, we should have nothing to fear, correct? I'll cut to the chase - they hate us because we are Americans. They hate our freedom, they hate the freedom our women have. They hate our freedom of religion. The quote I posted sums it up pretty well: "The United States to convert to Islam, ditch its constitution, abolish banks, jail homosexuals, bar women from appearing in the press and sign the Kyoto climate change treaty." FScouter - I guess you think we should have sat out WWII - don't want to go sticking our nose in other's business.

So, you are willing to call off the hunt for Osama? Do you think we should release all the prisoners in Gitmo? Stop all screenings at airports? Do away with all surveilance searching for terrorists? After all, your "reasonable" assumption is we now have no reason to fear attack. Interesting.

So, Gern, we are invited by Saudi Arabia set up bases in their country. Osama, who has been kicked out of Saudi Arabia, says we should have left, and since we didn't, he attacked. Are you saying we should have listened to Osama and left Saudi? Wow, I guess Osama really is powerful! (Do you really think if we had pulled troops out of Saudi, he wouldn't have attacked us?) What does Osama want now? "The United States to convert to Islam, ditch its constitution, abolish banks, jail homosexuals, bar women from appearing in the press and sign the Kyoto climate change treaty." Sooooooo, all in favor, say "yeah"....

"Somehow I'm not convinced we can win a war by pounding the "enemy" into submission. We would win a lot more by taking a hard look at why we continue to do things that result in people in other countries hating us." So, FScouter, what were we doing, that we should have stopped, that provoked the '93 World Trade Center attack, the '96 Khobar Towers attack, the '98 African Embassies attackes, the '00 attack on the Cole, and the 9/11/01 attacks? Why were they hating us, from '93 to 2001?

Webelos Handbook, 2004 Edition Camping Away From Home, pg. 352 You may have Webelos den overnight campouts, where Webelos Scouts and their adult partners camp out for one or two nights.

We are chartered by our elementary school PTA, so we are not affiliated with a particular troop. Most of our boys cross over into one of two local troops, though there are 4 very close to us geographically. They could all compete for our WII's, but most don't. My son is a WII, so I had a little more personal interest in setting up camping trips with troops, but it really wasn't that hard. We have 4 troop campouts scheduled between 10/1/06 and 3/15/06. I started setting these up in late August, just a few months before the first campout - it doesn't take 12 months advance notice to make these happen. Call the SM or SPL, ask for their camping calendar, let them know your goals, and pick a trip. Good luck!

Angie, I never said Webelos don't camp with Boy Scouts. In fact, I said just the opposite: "Webelos dens are encouraged to participate in joint overnight campouts with Boy Scout troops; however, a parent or guardian of each Webelos Scout must still attend." Just not at a Camporee. Make sure it is appropriate type camping. See Guide to Safe Scouting if you aren't sure.

Angela, Consult the Cub Scout Leader Book - it has all the answers to your questions. Regarding the Camporee: "Webelos overnight camping at Boy Scout camporees and/or events is not a BSA-approved activity." "In selecting the location for a Webelos overnight campout, remember that Webelos Scouts should not experience Boy Scout-type camping on the overnight." (I read this to mainly address bathroom and water issues - there should be real bathrooms available - flush toilets, sinks with running water - for Webelos camping) "Webelos overnights do not include backpacking." "Webelos dens are encouraged to have several overnight campouts each year. Webelos den overnight campouts are parent-son events, under the direction of the Webelos den leader who is assisted by the assistant Webelos den leader and the Webelos den chief. Sometimes, additional leadership from a Boy Scout troop may join you. In most cases, each Webelos Scout is under the supervision of his own father, mother or guardian. If a parent or guardian cannot attend, the boy's family should make arrangements for one of the other parents or another adult relative or friend to be a substitute at the campout. It is essential that each Webelos Scout is under the supervision of an adult and that every adult has a share of the responsibility for the campout. Webelos dens are encouraged to participate in joint overnight campouts with Boy Scout troops; however, a parent or guardian of each Webelos Scout must still attend." So, don't go camping at Boy Scout Camporees. Set up car-camping trips with Boy Scout troops. Good luck!

Be careful what you post, eh? http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Gossipy_Blogger.html Blogger Sought for Posts on Ga. Teen Sex ATHENS, Ga. Authorities are searching for whoever posted a long list and description of supposed sexual encounters between dozens of high school students on the online networking site MySpace.com. Oconee County Sheriff's officials said they were investigating who posted the gossip about North Oconee High School students Sept. 1-9. Since gossip isn't a crime, the sheriff's report lists the offense as distributing obscene materials to minors. The list describes sexual encounters and could be accessed by people younger than 18. "There's a lot of difference between writing on a bathroom wall and distributing it all over the world on the Internet where anyone has access to it," Lt. David Kilpatrick told the Athens Banner-Herald for a story published Sunday. Students argued with one another, disrupting classes, when most found out about the MySpace blog, said principal John Osborne. Kilpatrick said that MySpace gave him the e-mail address of the person who created the site, but that it was an anonymous Yahoo account. He said he would subpoena BellSouth, the Internet service provider used to create the e-mail address, to try to determine who paid for the Internet service. Any student found to have created the site could be expelled because the school's conduct code covers off-campus behavior that affects school life, Osborne said. He said they might also face lawsuits from parents of students cited in the postings. ___ October 1, 2006 - 6:59 p.m. EDT

Maybe not what you are looking for, but what about his Bobcat rank award? He could probably earn that pretty quickly. As for a gift, a compass is always a useful gift, as well as a nice message - "help you find your way" or "keep you on a true path."

Here are photos from our last Pack meeting. As you can see, it was well received by the boys. http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=1AcMm7hu4ZsXJw Program was presented by Steve "The SnakeMaster" Scruggs. http://www.letsgetwild.net/ In November, we are having the only Georgian to ever complete the Iditarod come in for a presentation. He was also a CM and SM. He is bringing his sled, equipment, some of his dogs, and a PowerPoint presentation and film footage. Afterwards, we are going to have our own indoor Iditarod between dens. Each den will bring in a clothes basket and rope. The rope is tied to the basket and the boys are the pullers. The DL sits in the basket, like sitting in an inner tube. Set up a course in the gym and let the dens race! http://www.cooldreams.net/home.html For December, we have a Marine in his Dress Blues talk about his uniform and about being in the Marines. We tie this in with our Toys for Tots collection. He will help with our annual uniform inspection, inspecting a den or two. 2 years ago, we had a Marine who was also an Eagle Scout make the presentation. We learned the Marines allow Eagles to wear their award on their Dress Blues, which he was doing. Last year we had the local Chattahoochee Nature Center present their Hunters in the Sky program, which included an owl and a hawk. For our Blue and Gold last year, we had the 2003-2004 Antarctic Eagle Scout talk about his trip to Antarctica. He is from a local Troop, and a Senior at Georgia Tech. He was great with the kids, talking about sneezing ice cycles and building igloos. His photos were awesome! I totally agree with you - this is like being a kid again, except we get to plan all the fun as well as participate! We do face painting as part of our rank advancements. I took the info from this page and modified it for our own personal program. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8047/paint.htm#pww Sounds like y'all are off to a great start and have a very bright future ahead! Good luck!

If you know what programs (speakers, presentations, etc...) the other Troops are using, then get a list of them and their contact info and give it to the PLC. Let them take it from there. In your earlier post, it sounded like the boys couldn't come up with the ideas. I don't think providing ideas to the PLC for Troop meetings is being adult lead. Is this a creativity problem or a planning problem? Attend Roundtable. It is a huge resource many Scouters just don't take advantage of. I have trouble getting my leaders to attend - busy schedules and everything. I have always taken home great information from Roundtable to help run our unit and keep the program fun and exciting. Many times you will run into leaders who were facing the same problem you are now, and they can offer hard-earned advice.

Gern, Do you or any of your leaders go to Roundtable? What about the Council's Scouters Academy (or whatever the name may be)? I get great ideas at ours. If you attend, but aren't getting good ideas, attend one in another District. Find a successful Troop and copy their plan.

Gern writes: "There is no specific religious requirement in any of the rank advancements." There are in Cub Scouts.

Not fleece, but great long u/w. I was shocked at how the lightweight material could keep me so warm. http://www.wickers.com/main/products/product.cfm?prodId=WA141&subcatId=2 They have heavier fabrics for really cold weather. I've worn these in the low 30's /upper 20's and been comfortable - and I am not a cold weather person!

Beavah, We don't do boring. http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=1AcMm7hu4ZsXJw Granted, these photos are from a monthly Pack meeting, and not from a weekly Troop meeting, but I don't think our Den meetings are too boring, either. Program was presented by Steve "The SnakeMaster" Scruggs. http://www.letsgetwild.net/ Aren't Boy Scout meetings planned and lead by the boys?

Kudu, All I can say is your liberal reading of B-P is flawed. B-P's "Religion of the Backwoods" was not just about going camping, which is what you are implying. His "Religion" was that boys would find a more real and material understanding of God through seeing His work in the natural creations on earth, as opposed to the preaching and formal religious education they received in church. It was not some back-alley manner for atheists to say they had "religion." B-P did believe strongly in the Christian ethic of helping your fellow man, as a way of serving God. But that alone was not enough. Atheists can serve their fellow man, but they do not see that as an act of serving God, nor does it help them with a "realisation of God." Again, I believe B-P saw this as a real application of religion for the boys to practice. It was another way to connect with God and bring God out of the church and into their everyday lives. I'm curious - why do you think B-P included religion in Scouting? Was he under any pressure to include it? Did he think you needed to believe in God to be the best kind of citizen?

My same experience, Liz and Vicki. My son is pretty normal build, and for his waist size, the legs were nearly a foot too long. Maybe when National sees the sales numbers, and the boy's pants aren't moving as well, they will offer different inseam sizes, like they do with the mens.