Venividi

There is a follow on question that is in the background to these questions - which is "do the adult leaders see value having the boys do these things. i.e., does it support the mission of the unit? If the adult leaders see value in the boys learning to do these things, then they will put in place a program where the boys are taught the skills, and expectations are set among both the parents and boys. If the adult leaders don't see value, i.e., its not part of their long term vision, then the unit wont move in that direction. As can be seen in the responses, there is not universal agreem

Program, Program, Program - boys are there for a fun, exciting, challenging program. They know and accept a such a scout leader as a whole package, and if he is a great role model in the areas that count most, they will, as desert rat suggests, accept his idosyncracies. Similar to how boys know the scout leaders that smoke, even though per scout rules, they don't do it in front of the boys. Doesn't make them want to start smoking.

Follow on question: How are your BOR memebers trained? Jump in and wing it? Attend several as an observer, and then serve? Advancement chair give a brief overview to whichever CM or parent is available at the time? Advancement Chair gives formal instruction? Formal training class at a scouting university? Other?

One additional thing: Consider BOR's availability and ability to conduct BOR's. What ever cutoff date prior to COH that you and your committee determine for recognition at the next COH, look at how many BOR's that you can support in a night. If it typically takes 1/2 hour per, then the board might provide a sign up list with 4 slots, starting 1/2 hr prior to the troop meeting start time. Scouts sign up on a first come basis; when all the slots are gone, they can sign up for a slot at the next opportunity. Implicit in this is that BOR's will be scheduled on a timely basis, but perh

Engineer, Suggest to your Advancement Chair that she meet with the CC to discuss this issue. Then review with committee and request committee support for established cutoff dates prior to COH's. CC should then run interference with any and all pushy parents. In the future when parents approach the advancement chair, whether by phone, email, text or in person, the response is "I am following the process as approved by the troop committee. If you have issue with that, please take it to the committee." Troop leaders need to have each other's backs; clearly communicating with e

Some suggestions: Meet with SPL to review what happened. It should have been his responsibility to approve or deny request to leave early from the campout, especially since they were PL's and QM's. SM needs to guide/coach/teach SPL to consider the ramifications of telling allowing scouts to leave early; SPL is then responsible to make sure that the slack is picked up. Remind SPL that he is responsible for the PL's, and his ASPL is responsible for the QM. Admit to the SPL that the adult leaders broke the chain of command when they allowed scouts to leave early instead of directin

TT, Yep, in MB counselling, strive to connect and mentor the boys; to get them past a simple checking off of requirements to uncovering and discovering natural curiosity in the boy. And overall within the troop adult leadership, strive to communicate to parents to continue to remind them of the differences between aims and methods.

shepo1, You will find a minority of boys (and parents) that will knowingly "interpret" requirements in their favor, with interpet in quotes because they are looking for a way to shortcut the requirement. I don't have the MB book in front of me, but I would be surprised if the text in the book does not describe and explain a pet show. It's even possible that a parent told the to show the pet to a neighbor. Typically when you meet with an 11 YO and explain the requirement, they will understand and go back and do it correctly. Parents are more difficult, as you have found. My

> Is that person that people look to for guidance a good leader because he or she was born with some natural aptitude for leadership? Or because he or she spent several years practicing leadership, making mistakes, learning about leadership, or *gasp* developing leadership skills? My opinion only: individuals in the group are looking for someone to make decisions for them because they don't know enough about the situation to know how to proceed, or they do know enough, but are afraid to make a decision because they don't want to risk being razzed by their group members in the event t

Take a group of scouts into the woods (or mountains, or COPE course, etc.). The natural leader is the one that most of the group looks to for guidance.

dg98, Congratulations on running a MB trail drive. I hadn't heard that term before, nor seen something that spans multiple weekends. (I am assuming that the participants are working on the same MBs over the course 3 weekends, rather than on different MB's each weekend). I am sure that there is a lot of work to doing it right. My experience teaching at a MB weekend was much like Lisabobs. (I particpated reluctantly - it was a favor to a friend that organized the weekend, and the person he had lined up had to back out at the last minute.). The expectation was that scouts would "ea

Ann, I am not sure what you mean by "preparing to learn to be boy scouts" or "to learn the stuff that you'll NEED to LEARN"; and how that differs from preparing to be a boy scout. A suggestion: stop at the library and get a book about ages and stages of boys from childhood through adolecence. Perhaps something by Michael Gurian. It will give you a perspctive of what is appropriate at what ages. In general, in the US, children are much more capable that adults believe they are. In Webelos, the program has to be fun. Fun involves more than playing. Fun involves accomplishing

Seattle, I am interpreting your comment on "preserving the integrity of the MB program" as meaning guiding the MB program to be consistent with the aims of scouting. I think that "preserving the integrity" can be interpreted by some as placing more emphasis on the program than on the scout. Which I don't think you meant.

Bacchus, with regards to blue cards in the scenario I described above, I meant the scout returned with a blue card signed by the counsellor. The scout would have attended the event with a blue card empty except for the title of the MB and the SM's signature. I appologize for not being clear. In any event, I think you get my point - that there are advantages and disadvantages of each, and that is the SM's responsibility to direct scouts to the venue that he/she thinks is in best keeping with the aims of scouting. Individual SM's have their own reasons for directing a scout one

Bacchus, It is apparent that I did a poor job of explaining. I thought I had made clear, but obviously didn't, that there are reasons for assigning a scout to a MB counsellor that is teaching a MB at a MB University, and reasons for assigning a scout to a MB counsellor in a traditional setting. You give valid reasons for sending a scout to MB university. I'll give you a "what if" question in return: say that at your council's MB university they offer citizenship in the world and First Aid (as examples). In previous years, scouts have returned with signed blue cards from a weeke

I think it is quite a leap from discussing implementing a program that supports the aims of scouting in a manner that is consistent with BSA's program materials to interpret this as "protect[ing] the sancitity of badges and ranks...". I haven't met a scouter yet that is more concerned over protecting badges and ranks than with helping boys grow into men. There are different views as how to do this, however. In the end, its not about badges and ranks. Those are simply part of one of the methods as a SM's disposal to achieve the aims. The SM is entrusted with using the program to th

> If they want to go, why hold them back? BSA has entrusted SM's with utilizing the MB program as part of the overall scouting program to achieve the aims of scouting. A SM may choose to approve a scout's attendance at a MB "Univerisity" for some MB's if: it is a limited opportunity that would be otherwise hard for a scout to arrange with an individual counselor; if it provides a taste of a certain subject, etc. A SM may choose to direct a scout to a counselor outside of a MB "University" (i.e., "hold them back" from the Univeristy)if the SM believes it is in better keeping with

As an aside on tent stakes, 'tis the season for material for making new stakes. After primaries are over in your area, collect old campaign signs (with any necessary permissions). The kind that are cardboard over a U-shaped wire frame with legs that stick in the ground. Its a good sized wire guage to serve as tent stakes. Cut stake sized lengths from the frame. clamp one end in vice. Bend until it looks like a tent stake. Makes a great scout project. A scout is thrifty. (optional: use grinder to dress the ends.) Return to subject.

Twocubdad menitioned it, and a few others alluded to it: define what you are looking for; i.e., committee needs to consider the charter organizations mission and the impact that has on the direction and expectaion of the troop; understand where the boys currently are with respect to mission, aims, and most important, program that they want that challenges them and keeps them engaged. Then consider candidates that relate well to boys, are able to motivate them, and whose goals for the boys line up with those held by the CO.

Even what constitutes "minimum standard" is subject to debate, and the answer depends on one's answer to the question "Minimum standard for what?" Minimum standard for skills needed to camp in the back yard? For camping in a state park with a campground having modern facilities? For camping on the back 40 acres of a farm or ranch? At Philmont? At Northern Tier? In a National Forest that is a 10 hour hike from the closest ranger station, and then a four hour drive to medical facilities? And for each of the preceding, minimum standards also depend on the level of "hands-on" that adults thin

Coach the boys and help them arrive at a list of the advantages and disadadvantages of the program. If all the MB's become group classes, share the MB program info with the PLC - the literature that describes the benefits of scouts calling a counsellor, meeting with a counsellor one on one (within the guides of safe scouting), and ask the PLC to structure their program within the guides of the MB program. If the MB's are citizenship, personal mgmt, and other eagle required type badges, ask the PLC if they think that the younger scouts will be bored, or get much out of them at their a

>Not a lick of difference between that and theology. The beliefs that stand the test of time, the ones that get written down and passed on to others are the ones that are viewed as the most useful, that have best contributed to human understanding and are most supported by the data of human experience with the divine. I gather that you are not of a conservative protesant denomination with a strict interpretation that the bible (the protestant bible) is the inerrent word of god. With every word literally true. Thus, as it was explained to me by denomination headquarters, is why one of M

Seems to me that there are a whole lot of assumptions going on here. Assuming that the scout is beset upon by uncaring, unhelpful adults. Assuming that the scout consiously made a decision NOT to take a POR because he wouldn't have time to fulfill the responsibilities, etc. But we only have half a story. It would also be possible for one to assume that the scout has been inactive or borderline inactive for a a lot of years, was only marginally interested in scouting, that the SM's experience with the scout has been that, even with a lot of coaching, the scout never put effort into leader

Great point on ad-hoc patrols. If you think of it it is usually because an adult doesn't want to haul another patrol box or something for a 2 or 3 guys. They almost never work or are fun. I suppose it might be different if the boys came up with the idea themselves. Tampa, My experience hasn't been that ad-hoc patrols are the result of adults not wanting to haul another patrol box; that is a small bit of work, and may likely be in a troop trailer anyway (in troops that have trailers). Rather, both scouts and adults see logic in combining patrols. Scouts see it as logical and comb

> So how to you tell a unit with 10-15 Eagles a year that they got it wrong? You don't. Lead a discussion of the trade offs between various ways that patrol method may get implemented, and how each relates to the aims. Determining priorities within an individual unit is not in the purview of an instructor. It may be something that a wise unit commissioner might influence over time. Also, unit culture may change as different familes join/leave. But beyond that, its their choice as to the level of PM, etc that they implement. Not something that you can force.