blw2

" Without an eye? Modified Snell." I don't know that one.... can't find it online....

yep, although I do see as in the case of my story, the kids are leaving the building. Next year will be a different school. That's a big deal, not like passing from 1st grade to 2nd. It's something to take pause at, just a bit. but the 1-1/2 to 2 hours or even more is just ridiculous. Should have been 15-20 minutes at the very most, IMHO. My son agrees. Just the other day, I was watching a TV program, and the story line was a girl graduating high school. There was a scene where the mother and kid were alone in the school's lobby while the big reception was happening elsewhere.... they pause, it's quiet.... and the mom looks around and asks "did you notice?".... "notice what?" "It's not so scary now, is it?" I think that's kind of a cool thought process to trigger in a young mind.

so true about the telling.... but I have found that while it works well for things like "bringing the snack to the pack meeting", it doesn't work well for folks that need to attend regular committee meetings and take an active scouter roll. I find they'll only do a half-baked job at best...usually.

It sounds like a win for your Scouts' troop, Stosh. That's a great pick-up for them!

I'm still hoping for a Bear Grills type to take the job.... we need somebody hanging on the side of a helicopter, or doing other really cool stuff to grab their attention (and fixing it so the scouts can do some of that cool stuff too....) Don't get me wrong, I'm not they biggest Bear fan out there.... but you've gotta admit it looks like fun on tv

I was thinking of something a few minutes ago. Talking to my son about cooking, and camp cooking So I recently found out that Wednsday's evening meal at summer camp is going to be foil soldiers. After my last experience with them, I told my self never again if I can help it. So I have it in mind to bring a few fixin's in my pack, so that I can do up something like Stosh often describes with his tin cup or mess kit meals...use the foil soldier ingredients to make something more fit to eat. SO should I be chastised for bucking the vote, and not eating the planned meal? Now what if my son, who has a similar opinion of these meals, wants to do the same thing? What about him.... is he being un-scoutlike?

i'm not sure if I know what you mean about the word "name" or not.... but you make a great point about definitions.... and it's even more than what they "think" the words mean.... it could also be about what they intend for them to mean, right? so as an example, my derivation of the word Cheesh? is a distorted or disguised form of Jeez which was a disguised or shortened form of Jesus. SO, it 'seems' like in your heart you are saying Jesus but then the question moves to under the context to which you are using his name.....in a vain or useless way.... for doing evil in his name....etc.... BUT I do realize that perhaps 99% of the folks out there using that word do not have any of that in their head at all....not at all....... but my question is this, what do they have in their heart when they say it? Usually, it seems, it's said as some sort of negative reaction to a negative stimulus.....so even if they don't know what they are saying, does that make it right? I have no idea the answer to that.... so I just personally try to avoid the potential conflict...not always successfully, but I try.

flirting with the 3rd commandment but I think both of these examples are a bit skewed.... depending on context. Are we using the Lord's name in vain.... as in the commission of evil under his name? even still, I would correct my kids, or my scouts, for using either of those "abbreviations", even if it wasn't for evil sake.... just because it's flirting on the line.... that's just my opinion.

oh, I've got a big problem in jumping in too quick to a majority rule, especially in scouting. Coming to some sort of consensus is a much better thing to strive for in my opinion.... It's hard. Much easier to go with mob rule of course...but folks will be happier if they work on some give and take.... then everyone feels that at least they are heard. jumping into mob rule is a sure fire way to have people quit. Personally I don't really see where there's an issue in what was described. if patrol A didn't want to go, but patrols B, C, and D do want to.... let patrols B, C, D do the fund raising for it. A can do their own fundraising for their own thing. Guessing here, but when they said "nor would they work to help pay for summer camp camperships." they probably weren't being mean about it.... surely they would be helpful, courteous, and kind.... they probably just didn't want to run point doing all the work FOR them. so B, C, and D sell mulch..... they need a few extra hands next Saturday to unload the shipment.... and ask A for a little help. They'd probably say sure....... right? I suppose part of this depends on if you are looking at the patrol as the central organization, or the troop. I'm looking at it form the perspective of scouting happening at the patrol level here.....

interesting.... my son asked me about this a few times, and I never had heard of it either.... and never bothered to look it up. (if there were regional, state, or national level races) My son made it to district three times, and made it to our council level twice.... I think. Anyway, I was proud of him, district is a big field! I did perhaps more than I should have on his cars, but he had a part in building and doing all of it.... There at council, he was up against some hard core 100% dad built stuff, and it was crazy. He was not even close! Hey David14, good luck to your son!!!!

interesting.... I'm attending summer camp this year.... my 1st since I was a scout and I was wondering about the tent situation As I understand thy'll have the wall tents for us.... figured it was just the normal thing at all scout reservations... but honestly I'd almost rather sleep in my tent, even though it's small. i figure I'll sleep better on my mattress and on my own... and have been wondering if that would be frowned upon....

this is such a personal boundary thing.... a measure of what is ok. I was just the other day correcting by daughter for using the word "dang". She had picked it up, I think, from an adult friend of ours. My wife thinks it's ok, I look at the bigger picture of what it "means".... or more to the point what it is abbreviating..... and I don't like it. some people think smoking is ok, so they do it in front of their kids (or with their priest) others don't some people think drinking a beer is ok, so they''ll do that in front of their kids (or with their priest) others don't some people think using machinery and driving a car is ok, and they will drive their kids to scouts (or wherever they are going) others don't, and instead use a horse and buggy

treasurer concerns..... make sure it's understood about the bank account, and if they have any requirements or concerns. I have recently learned that it's easier for a troop to just get their own EIN rather than opening a bank account using the CO's..... but the CO needs to give permission to list them as the responsible party for your EIN.... and in the case of church to use their non-profit status.... this seems to be a rather new thing to worry with, that most existing units wouldn't know about at least this is what I have gathered from my recent efforts and research

exactly!

exactly along the lines I was thinking. This is just my adult perspective but in my thinking the best meeting place would be a troop's very own scout hut. A place the scouts could hand the stuff they want on the walls, where and how they wanted, and so on.... the appropriate folks have their own keys..... it's just a place of their own. the next best thing is outside.... for an average meeting anyway. It just seems like it would add a flavor to scouting that you don't get in a classroom, school cafeteria, or even a church function hall.... which still has that "school" feeling in a way.... Maybe a local library.... or perhaps a store, business, or warehouse type thing might have space for you for say an occasional quarterly indoor type meeting after business hours... then the other meetings could be in the park, or around a campfire someplace else....??? or perhaps at a farm or someone with a bit of land...one of the scouter's places perhaps.... small towns are a bit rural, so I would think open spaces are maybe a bit easier to come by.... just trying to brainstorm a bit more.

Just had an interesting time last night, and scout son's 5th grade "graduation" planned for 1-1/2 hours it lasted a good 2 hours. I'm not sure, because I spaced out there a bit.... but I think he might have graduated high school They had awards and recognition going for what seemed like forever..... at least they did most as group mentions..... as in " stand after I call your name, save applause till the end..." They did that for things like AB honor role and who participated in the extra curricular band but they had plenty come up front stuff too.... for the kids that made a record for track or for pull ups, or participated on the school's Olympic team, and some kids that excelled playing the recorder in music class. (how is it that these gets you 'up front mention', but coming in 45 minutes before school to play in band, or early and late to serve on safety patrol, or getting all A's and B's get's herd treatment?.... but that's just my pet peeve) Anyway, Son was saying he was "soooo bored". He had to sit still in such an uncomfortable position and not talk for "sooo long".... So, I just thought I'd share.... since it kinda does have connection to what we are doing in scouts. and tying into the other thread discussing patrol dynamics and doing what a kid wants vs needs vs expects vs...? I was thinking. It would be interesting to do a statistical survey/study... 1) first group - finding out somehow coverttly from kids before they had any ideas or preconceived notions about such a thing (no leading questions, no mention of it, no suggestions, no options, nothing...) if such an event should happen how such an event should go or what sorts of things should be done how long should it last etc.... 2) second group - Then another data set of kids that have sat through it, and have some experienced notions about what it should be 3) third groups- perhaps another data set of kids that have been presented ideas from an adult...suggestions, options, etc... & ALL OF THESE with sub-set data looking at what the various groups would prefer.... based on personalities (as per I think it was qwazse's recent post) those that earned lots of awards those that didn't the sporty kids studious ones introverted kids the extroverted ones etc.... because I'll bet there would be a differing focus or interest level between these groups... I just think it would be interesting to learn.... I guess a bit more specifically what the kid wants or needs vs what us adults think they want or need. Yeah, i know the purpose of the school thing was clearly for the adults and the photo-op.... I'm just thinking more philosophically and how it applies to scouting....

common personalities.... yet another variable in the mix. Good point

we've been having some yellow flies around the house lately and a few get in when the door is opened. Last night I was hiving a conversation with my 8 year old daughter about them. She was saying she hopes the die, or some such thing, so I was trying to flip it to hope they go someplace else kinda thing.... so the conversation came around to all creatures being put on this earth for a reason but honestly, between the two of us we couldn't come up with one good thing these yellow flies do.... (except to strike a good conversation with my daughter...)

Barry, you seem angry about this. why is it such a hot button for you? It's like you're trying to slap me down into submission or something..... I'm not afraid, I'm not battling fears, I'm not questioning, I'm not trying to force it on you or your scouts..... you can choose to use it and learn from the discussion, or not. It's your choice, not mine. To me, it's just an interesting and contrasting philosophical issue about patrol structure, interpersonal scout friendships, scout comfort and happiness, and patrol bonding and spirit.... how we have a tenancy to label things, sometimes unproductively...and how those labels can grab our focus and re-direct us away from what is important.... and now, leading back to the original topic of POR's and the discussion creep leading to patrol POR's I am sorry if I crept the thread in a way that is upsetting to you.

Can you meet under the picnic table shelter at the local park? Then maybe it doesn't matter who the CO is.... (just an example, thinking back-up venues) I agree, I'd personally rather stay local and wouldn't care if the units were split to different CO's.... if that's what it would take. A long time ago, I was thinking of how it might work to have multiple but related units like a troop and pack, share a CC and committee but that's just theory and isn't happening anyway, so why does it really matter?

I have been there.... but by bed time it cools down, the sweatshirts come out, the mosquitoes go wherever it is that they go, the camp fires get lit, ahhh..... good sleeping weather. Down here, I think it gets hotter and muggier at bedtime in the summer.... (yeah, I know that this isn't always the case. I've sweated through nights up there too.... it's just those nice cool summer evenings are my more favored memories) you beat me to it KDD!

yeah, describing adult run if it is.... but if it's just allowed to be at the boy's and the boy leadership's discretion, is it still? and the just hangin and bonding is boring..... well yeah, sometimes it is..... but the only time I have seen that happen on BS campouts is when the troop guide or instructor starts reading out of the book and doing some teaching..... otherwise that hangin takes on the form of Zombie Tag.... or whatever they call it.... looks like a lot of running around and laughing to me....

yeah, you might very well be right.... but then again.... membership is in steady decline as I understand it..... might it be that if more scouts thought it more fun, then maybe more kids might get to experience the good from it? Eagledad I've gotta say... your reply leaves me feeling a little bit "adult led" here.... Is that how you lead this "boy run experience", you refer to? light hearted sarcasm -on.... Oh sorry, I forgot. I shouldn't question that....everyone knows that perfection comes from time alone, nothing more..... and that once perfection is reached, the door to new ideas should be closed.... What was I thinking? Oh wait... that whole time thing....I've got some of that too....I've been walking this earth for almost 50 years. Not feeling like an old man yet, but I guess I'm there.... and I'll just say this. I haven't had my eyes closed the whole time.... some of it maybe, but not all of it... sarcasm -off.... Seriously though Barry, I appreciate your experience and thoughts, as I do everyone else's here too...... but I think you're blowing my points out of proportion a bit, and getting too worked up over it too. It's observation, it's conclusions drawn, it's opinion and food for thought about one aspect, it's not the total of a program, or how it should be. Most of all I'm not trying to force it down your throat. I've seen the glossy eyes of a scout waiting for the adult to run out of steam. I've seen the scout just wanting to hang with his friends.... those things aint good by my estimation sure in scouting there is a time for helping, a time for tasks, a time for work but there is also a time for just hanging and bonding with your friends.... well in a fun program the boys aren't be dragged to there probably is anyway.... I can't properly insert the quotations, because of the way it was posted, so I'll have to cut and paste a bit "Forced? You swing that word around like it chains a boy from have a great scouting experience in your Utopian Troop. What you don't understand is the number one reason the NSP was created was because troops lacked enough structure to give new scouts the confidence to continue in a program of free will. The BSA looses more scouts during their first year in a troop than any other age group. " But could it be that said troops (not yours, the ones BSA used as a basis for the ideas) lacked the necessary "structure" because the environment with other patrols didn't foster helpfulness? And please someone explain this; If scouts are developed from day one to take care of your scouts, why would older scouts not want to take care of the younger scouts? Honestly, I can't even conceive this kind of rational thinking EXACTLY! ..... and no reason that couldn't be one patrol helping the other now, could it? or could it perhaps even be that the measure of "necessary structure" was adult defined.... the scouts didn't want it anyway? I'll not counter every point, except to go back to what I wrote before..... I'm still left with more negative question marks about the idea, than positive ones.

I'd probably have gone a bit smaller like that one, or REI-s version of it.... but at the time i was looking for something that I could also use with DS when he was still in cubs, but knowing that he was soon moving out. the little bit of extra room is nice for my stuff.... and an acceptable compromise considering I don't do as much backpacking as I'd like. Mine is still small enough that it's still packable.... but 2# sure sounds nice in the pack! If it weren't for all the biting bugs and crawlys in this warm climate I live in, I'd consider more open camping sometimes, as Stosh describes oh, and here are some better more Scout worthy options to compare to that 1st one I suggested..... just stumbled across this headline at lunch, and thought i'd share https://gearjunkie.com/head-turning-vehicles-overland-expo

A lot of folks seem to go for hammocks. I keep wanting to try it, but don't want to plop down the cash just in case it's not for me.... Sorry, can't really help with 1st hand experience.... I went the other direction for my last tent purchase.... trying to keep size and weight down a bit for eventual packing. i bought the outdated model of this one https://www.rei.com/product/878519/rei-half-dome-2-tent A couple of our ASMs went with one of these....not sure if they went with the 4, 6, or 8 model though. https://www.rei.com/product/894015/rei-kingdom-4-tent and one of them has the optional garage which makes a great front porch but they just make me chuckle because they are so big for one guy to sleep in....