SSScout

If only... "Hey, it's only a toy..." "My son wouldn't do that" "Cavemart wouldn't sell it if it wasn't safe" "Heck, back when I was a boy..." True story... I'm on my Suzuki GT550 (that's a motorcycle for you motor history impaired) rolling along, enjoying the crisp fall air one saturday morning, going to pick up my girl for a ride out in the country. I come around a curve, enjoying the feel of the balance between tire and motor and man when I find I am looking face into the barrel of a rifle held in the hands of a boy on a hillock on the outside of the curve. I nearly laid it down at his feet, literally at his feet. But I kept my control, squeezed out a quick controlled stop and circled round to come up his driveway. I pulled up in front of him, stopped my motor and ripped off my helmet. "What the hell are you doing?" I yelled. The boy couldn't have been more than 10. "It's only a toy, mister, honest!!" he said. I glanced down at the thing in his quivering hands. From 3 feet away it was clearly plastic and badly proportioned. "Well, I don't know that!!" I replied. "Don't you know I could have been really hurt, thinking you were about to SHOOT ME??!! And YOU could've been really hurt if I was anybody but me." I was calming down now. I said "PLEASE. PLEASE. Don't EVER point a gun, even a toy, at ANY living thing again, even with a toy gun. You can't predict what the other person might do. Okay?" I remember him nodding his head. Looking back, I think that was the only time I ever purposely tried to scare a child without a fun intent. And then I did something that I later regretted. I put on my helmet and rode off. I think maybe I should have gone and spoken with his parents. But then, who knows what momma or pappa would've done? or said to me? I guess I hoped the boy would've gone in and said "Momma! A man on a motorcycle..." and something might 've sunk in. I do think about that boy sometimes, so many years ago... Make'm understand, please? YiS

Amen to Scoutnut. I'm not a GS leader, but in a BS Troop, ours at least, there is 'in loco parentis' in force. If my boy was misbehaving, I would expect to at least hear about it, and I would expect one of the other Troop leaders to at least caution my child about their behavior, should it be inappropriate. And they all know that I would inform them of their boys actions or language, if unScoutlike. There's discipline and then there's discipline. Spanking? not in my presence. Advising a parent to use physical discipline? Bad choice. Taking the child TO their parents? Very appropriate, I think. If we take your report at face value, I would think your SUC is either misinterpreting what happened or heard only one side of the events. I believe I would take it up the line of command, such as GS has, and get clarification as to what IS expected. Do the GS Troop leaders have an expectation of their charges behaving like young ladies inside or like football players outside at recess? You might point out that the girls have made a Promise and have a Law they are expected to abide by. In our case, "A Scout is... Courteous,kind, obedient...", none of which it would seem the subject youngsters were living up to? What expectations do the parents have, if not to encourage their child to follow the GSP and GSL? I would avoid the lawyer. That will unnecessarily thicken the soup, so to speak. Pursue the dialog in the GS world, politely, calmly, reasonably. You will clear your name and lead others to think about their use and type of "discipline". Thank you for being there. "The great successes of the world are accomplished by them what show up". YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Lowfat Steal the Bacon::: Count off by 2's to divide into two teams. Line up on opposite sides, on lines about 20 yards apart, if room. If you're inside, have the boys touch the wall behind them so they can get back to the starting point "fairly". Now, in the 'original',high fat version, the teams count off again, one end to the other. The "caller" then calls out a number and those two numbers from opposing sides run out to 'steal the bacon' , a hat or ball or towel, laid in the middle between the two sides, and runs it back to their side for scoring, if youre into that sort of thing. In the new and improved low fat wesion, once the two teams are lined up on their respective sides, the 'caller' calls the boys out with other defining qualities. Use your imagination, thus: anyone wearing shoes without laces. anyone born in February.. Anyone with a sister who is a Girl Scout... All Tenderfeet... Wearing black shorts... red hats... if you like eating raw oysters...(note the reaction to this one among Cub Scouts!) Born in NewJersey... born in a country other than the USA... Father wears glasses... attends XYZ school... Note the need to be honest about things. They are "on their honor" to react truthfully!! Scoring? Ha! they'll forget all about who's ahead if the caller keeps the pace fast... The caller can be very creative and will elicit sometimes one, sometimes nearly all of the players. KISMIF YiS

Religious Awards... Met a Scout at a formal occasion. He had an Eagle award on his pocket.. and, on closer inspection, I discerned THREE religious awards. When I asked him about this wonderful display, he told me he earned the God and Country from the Methodist church that sponsored his Troop, the Alte Dei (I hope I said that right) from the Catholic church his FATHER attended and the Jewish award (which title I forget) from the synagogue his MOTHER attended. Over the pocket, he had ONE purple and silver knot and THREE buttons ("devices") on it. Waddya make of DAT?? We did not have the time to discuss his belief(s), unfortunately. After being a Chaplain at the Nat Jambo, I've had occasion to talk religion with many other Chaplain type Scouters and with many Scouts. One could almost feel the other fellows pain from the tongue biting, from the more "fundamentalist" types,who could not say "yeah, but MY religion is REALLY the right one".I did hear alot of good religiousy jokes, tho... Did you hear about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac? Poor fellow, lay awake all night, wondering if there is a dog. Kudos, Kudu and Trev... It's still worth it... YiS

Greetings from the other side of the map and welcome. I also find truth in wingnuts comment. The glass is not half full OR half empty. Its capacity has been poorly designed for its purpose. Now to get to the media, the schools, the boys' friends and have a Sign'em up party. Build the program and they will come. YiS

Howdy, Eagle309: I second (third? fourth?) the comments and suggestions of my brothers and sisters. The SPL did good. Actions, good or ill, should (and do) have consequences. But one thing has not been mentioned. Review your observation of the boys home life. While some boys are more "rambunctious" than others and some have a less than ideal homelife, and some may even have a biochemical imbalance that affects their behavior, all humans react to attention and need recognition. If they can get that attention and recognition and approbation from home and parent(s), so much the better. If not, they (WE!) will go looking for it from others. Hence the rise of street gangs, and bullies in school, to some extent. If I can't get my dad's attention at home, I'll raise cane at the Scout meeting and get attention there (one interpretation). So along with limiting the boys effect on the meeting and removing his source of attention ("don't do that!"), the adult should LOOK for things to praise him for. I bet if the SM complimented him on his uniform or knot tying or such, that would have good affect ,too. Give them GOOD attention and approval so they won't need to go looking for the BAD attention. It is not sufficient to only give BAD results for behavior. Give them an alternative, a way out of the bind they don't even know they are in. One SPL might ignore the boy because he's a PitA, but another might make sure the boy is included and treated fairly and equally in being called upon and chosen. What results might one expect from each of the two possibilities? Combine the ideas. YiS

Yessiree! I like reading success stories. Try this some where down the line: I will assume your normal opening goes something like this: Cubs at attention, flags come in, pledge of allegiance, a Cub leads the Pack in the CS Promise and LotP. Just before the Cub begins the CSP, the CM should break in with "wait a minute Tommy, I know the Cubs all know the CSP and LotP, but I want to see if the PARENTS have been listening". Here he walks around with a paper bag in which are 3x5 cards, each of which has a single word on it, making up the CSP and/or LotP. CM encourages each parent to draw out a card, then asks them to arrange themselves in the proper order WITHOUT SPEAKING. Then say the words in proper order. The boys will love it, "ah Garauntea". If they have inordinate trouble, the CM can ask a Cub "volunteer" to assist. Then the CM can say a short CM minute about keeping promises or such. KISAF YiS

All well and good. The CO can set membership requirements for their Pack and Troop and Ship. But what happens when the stray Jewish/Quaker/Lutheran/Mormon/Unitarian/Wiccan boy comes along and wants to be a Scout in a one-Pack-Town? MUST a boy be turned away because his family is not a "parish" member? I don't think even our Mormon friends are so - ahem - parochial. Would they also turn away a non-Latter Day Saint? Growing up, my Pack and Troop and Explorer Post (and come to think of it, they had a SShip, too) was sponsored by a Methodist Church. I wasn't Methodist. My family was from an Episcopal-( no local church)-Northern Baptist (we were further south then) mix. The Troop Church was close by, my friends were members, too. Looking back, it seemed very convenient. I remember some Jewish and Catholic boys mixed in. Come Scout Sunday (or Saturday), we all went our seperate ways, but no one ever, to my lengthening memory, turned a boy away due to his professed family beliefs. True, I can see a Pack/Troop/Ship being predominantly of one religion if the CO is a religious org. But is it really a good idea to "officially" deny a boy a chance to be a Scout on the fact that his family is not in eclesiastical agreement with the majority of the CO? Especially if it is "the only game in town"? I think the Priest is losing sight of an excellent outreach to the community and to possible future converts. Story: Our Troop (and others) was invited to a Patriotic speech (fouth of July?) to be given by General Hershey, then head of the Selective Service (another thread...). It was to be given at a Jewish Synagogue. We all went, full uniform, with parents. Methodist, Catholic, Episcopal. They presented a Jewish memorial service, honoring (I think) Jewish military lost in the service of the nation, in Hebrew, before the speech. IT WAS LONG!! (well, I was maybe 12?) What would the priest have said to that? Would he have refused to allow the Pack/Troop to attend? Hard Questions.... YiS

The Peter Principle emanded: The list you made to not forget the stuff you want to remember will be misplaced and forgotten.

Mucho Congrats. I'm sorry I don't know your song. You have contacted the camp, of course? You will remember this time later, (perhaps MUCH later) in your life as a true high point. You will also be pleasently surprised at how what you have learned along the way in Scouts is useful to you and indirectly to those around you at odd times. Oh, and don't forget the shoe box. You know, the one to put all the old patches and badges in. The one your grandkid will find in the back of your closet and drag out to ask "granddad, whats all this old stuff?" As you stride along life's trail, don't forget to hold that tree branch back for the fellow coming up behind you. Wouldn't want him to get hit with it. YiS.

If yours is a small community, (and even if it isn't!) contact the newspapers and see what they would welcome in the way of notice. They might even send out a reporter and photog to your ECoH. In any event, no matter how formal (Marine Band plays) or informal (uncle Ed from Altoona plays his guitar), take pictures and send a notice and pictures in to the papers.They will note it in the local listings. And it will be good for the boys scrap book (he does have a scrap book?). Depending on the history of the Troop, you might search out past Eagles and have them come to add their congrats to the rest. YiS

...Or flashlight gathering ceremony...

Yes. A compass. Get one that has a good metal case, take it to your local jeweler and have them engrave the date and Pack number, etc. a short message on the back of the case. Leupold Co. out of Portland Oregon made a good one of a "handful" size. I don't know if they are still in business, worth some research. Aufrdersehen! Guten Pfadfinderein!

...so this guy walks into the Greek tailor shop, and holds out a pair of pants. The tailor says, "euripedes?" And the fellow asks, "eumenedes?" Thank you, nike for the opening... YiS

"On my honor,I will do my best..." (BSA) "On my honor, I will try..." (GSA) " Swear not at all... but let your communication be Yea, yea; Nea nea..." (JC/Mathew/KJB) "It's for the kids" (Bob T. Tomatoe) YiS

What nldscout said. This is about equal access and legality and communication. Make contact with other Scouters, compare notes (roundtable? DE? ). Is this situation peculiar to your school only or endemic to the whole school district? Your Council and District need to step up and insist that Scouting be treated the same as any extra curricular activity. If soccer clubs and Bible study groups and privately owned ice skating rinks and karate dojos can send home notices, so should you (us?). Have your local Council check with National Capital Area Council and the hassles they overcame in our area. Don'tforget to enlist public opiion. A letter writing campaign to the local newspapers will not hurt a bit. And when all is said and done, review the forum posts here about whats right (and wrong) with Scouting and take heart. YiS

All of a sudden I feel really blessed to have had the Troop leaders I had 'way back when'. I don't remember ever having that sort of problem as I was advised and counseled thru my Eagle. Come to think of it, yep, it was almost 30 years ago. I would think the boy has learned the important lesson that, often, "a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on". GET IT IN WRITING. Somewhere in the bowels of the National headquarters is some paper with signatures on it that attests that a bunch of Old Fogeys thought that a certain young man was worthy to hang a multi colored cloth patch on his pocket. I feel very grateful to them for that confidence. I don't remember that I made any great mistakes along the way. Perhaps it was the OFs that helped me avoid those. Could the OFs in this case be reminded that PERHAPS some one of them glanced away, rather than looked over the boys shoulder at an opportune time? Good Scouting to you, MinnSM. YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

I'm coming in late to this discussion, but I find great agreement with all that has been said. When my son became a Cub, I discovered to my surprise, that the Pack turned Cubs upside down to award the Bobcat. I told them not with my son. And not any more to any other boy. The parents had no idea about the problems and risks involved. Physical injury ( what if some one slips?), psycological trauma, the example of a small 'hazing' making larger 'hazings'seem OK (initially they didn't see this as 'hazing', only good ole boy ribbing taken to a lower level), public humiliation even in "good fun". Where was the celebration of the boys accomplishment? and why defame it in this way for no real purpose? If you want to see humiliation done for a purpose, check with your local Marine DI. They've got purpose! Wedgies can be harmful, even physically and emotionally ("ahh we didn't mean any harm"). It is a form of bullying, and has no place in Scouting. I think that CM needs to consider the words of that great country western philosopher Dierks Bentley: "What was I thinking?"

One person is the "Camporee Chair". He/she works with the DE and the OA to organize the skeleton of the Camporee. (NB: this is not what we call the Webelos Weekend, which is a seperate affair). Usually, along with the "special" stuff ( climbing wall, black powder muskets, etc.), the CCh asks each Troop to sponsor/organize an activity that can be purely fun or Scout oriented. Some past "Stations" have included frisbee golf, an orienteering course, a nature trail/scavenger hunt, a pioneering contest, matchless fire building, archery. Not all Troops sponsor a "station". I guess someone has to be left over (and not march) to WATCH the parade!

I know there are lots of good, useful, thought provoking, "AHA!" type suggestions out there , but often they are what I call "self correcting". F'rinstance: "If I told you once, I've told you a million times, DON'T EXAGGERATE!" Y'all got any more?

Oh, it's one hour a week. I'm now into ...oh, let's see... December 2027...

Icons are not only visual.... "Open channel D" "Little buddy" "Round and round she goes and where she stops..." "Plunk your magic twanger , Froggy" "My time is up, I thank you for yours" "Hawaya, hawaya, hawaya..." ""These are the voyages..." "Do not attempt to adjust your set..." "You open this door with the key to imagination..." "Hey kids,..." "And they are MILD" "Let's hear it...for ...THE BEATLES!!" " And awa-a-a-y we go!" "ummm how sweet it is!" ...Here's a hard one...said only once... "...G'bye, kids..." YiS

"All politics am local" Personal story: When I came back from Roundtable with the information that our District Camporee had to be rescheduled from its original site/date due to a previous scheduled event, the question was NOT "how can we go there on that date" but "who's in charge this year?" And when I named the name (different than the year before), the Troop Committee together nodded and said, "then we'll go." The Program is the most important thing. Next, is the Parents commitment to the Boys. Without that commitment, THERE IS NO PROGRAM. Is that a triad? Program--Boys--Parents. Icons, uniforms (a nudist Scout Troop?), activities, all tie together, but again without parent commitment, there is no program. If the Boy says PLEEZE MOMMY AND DADDY I want to be a Cub/Boy/Venturer/Sea Scout, it means little if M & D say "I don't have the time " or "I don't agree with the ((insert du jour bone of contention here))". Please review sons explanation above. Number crunching can lead one to the river, but it can't make your horse thirsty (uh?). All you umbrage taking folks out there, PLEEEEZE realize we are ALL on the same side (outside) of the elephant that each of you is trying to describe BLINDLY to the others (another Rudyard Kipling reference). It ain't worth the extra blood pressure. YiS

Yes! I remember that too. Any Moore?

MY version goes ( and you can try to google it)... "I am a fine musician, I practice everyday, And when you hear me practice, you can hear me play, My TROMBONE, my TROMBONE, I love to play my TROMBONE... RaaH Raah RATARATA RAha RA arRAHH (with appropriate trombone motions, thru eight beats only)) my picolo, my picolo, I love to play my PICOLO... Treeedaleealee treadaledaledalele... etc. Pick up all the instruments you like until everybody in the band is playing in sync, in harmony (suurrre) Caliope... Oompa oompah oompahpah ..Move up and down Bass Drum ...Hands in the air when beating Trumpet ... swing horn left and right my Bass viol, My Bas Viol... VoomVoomVoooom VoomVoom Voooom Etc... Lots of ETC!! Danny Kaye did a marvelous version in one of his movies, but which one escapes me at present. Have Fun YiS