SSScout

SR540beaver: You and I may agree on the definition of a terrorist but some folks don"t: "Homeland Security says Timothy McVeigh is not a Terrorist" http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/homeland-security-says-timothy-mcveigh-isnt-a-terrorist-but-peace-activists-are/701/ *sigh*

In our neck of the woods, a Camporee is a Scout activity, laid out with Patrol events. There are no stand arounds, you camp, you participate. Cubs and Webelos may visit, with parent accompaniment, but that is very rare. Webelos Weekend is the other thing. Webelos are invited to the Webelos Weekend by Scout Troops that organize and run "stations" for the Webs to participate in. Webs come as guests of a particular Troop. If a Cub Pack Web Den wants to come, and they don't have a host Troop, they are assigned one. Instant recruitment!

Trivia Quiz: Who said: "It's ONLY the beginning, folks, only the beginning...!" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/03/AR2009010301993.html

Baden-Powell... Aids to Scoutmastering Eric Sloan...Diary of an Early American Boy Gary Paulson... Hatchet Anything by Ernest Thompson Seton Oh, and go to SLST and IOLS ASAP.

I tried to spin this off as a seperate thread, but non-function and too many "error" messages. Jblake's "summer Cows" put me in mind of the idea that what I call "joining jokes" are a good way to include folks in the group. Here's one that you do VOCALLY but has to be understood ALPHABETICALLY... The leader says the 'truism' and as folks figure out or know the 'rule' used, they join in and add more... Here goes... >>Silly Sally wears boots but not shoes. >>Silly Sally loves apples and bannanas but not pears. >> Her brother, Happy Harry, goes swimming and running, but never dives or walks. >> For his Nature Merit Badge, he studied Loons and Moose and Deer and Rabbits, but no Beavers or Skunks or Gophers. He sleeps deeply, but never naps. Any more???

It just isn't your turn yet... "Maryland State Police Admit to Keeping List of Non-Violent Activists on List of Possible Terrorists" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245.html I personally know two folks on the list...

I was gonna start a new thread, but couldn't get the spin off function to work from Snipe Hunt... Jblake47's "summer cows" gag reminded me that what I call "join 'em jokes" can be a means to help include folks (both young and not so) in the group. This one is done VOCALLY but must be understood ALPHABETICALLY, if you see what I mean. You start off with one example, and if anyone else knows the rule, they chime in. Others try out new examples and as they figure it out, presto! You have a new member of the club!: >> Silly Sally wears boots but not shoes. >> Silly Sally loves bannanas but hates pears. Likes apples, too. >> Her brother, Happy Harry, goes swimming but doesn't dive. >> Happy Harry goes jogging and running but never walks. >> They both adore balloons and spoons but not toys. Any More out there?

I tell ya, we need a "Religion and Chaplaincy" forum... J-K-C, I thank you for your passion. It adds to my knowledge of the wonderful mix that is BSA (or isn't). I've often wondered if there was a counter proof to the supposition that religion always supported Scouting. BSA attempts to use the respectful 'agree to disagree' that exists between the various faiths in the world and ,voila, here's the LCWS that stands up and says "no, we can't and here's why". I've often been asked, "do you have to be Christian to be a Boy Scout?". I've never been asked any variant of that ("do you have to be Jewish, Lutheran, Muslim, Pagan, etc.....?"). This must indicate something. Beavah: I tend to agree with the franchise/contractor model for Scouting, but when the possible franchisee doesn't think the BSA model is close enough to their idea of a youth program, then it gets adapted (Royal Rangers comes to mind). Maybe it isn't inclusive enough. Campfire is an alternative. It does get interesting when we are asked to "encourage the boy's faith" and find out that we are not supposed to encourage him in OUR faith. Again, please note the subtle change in the 12th point's published definition in 1972. "...and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion." (1911 til 1972) "...He respects the beliefs of others." (1972 to present) I think the LCWS's stance is wonderful. It contrasts nicely with certain other groups that would rather change the BSA to suit themselves instead of inventing another choice. Question: does the LCWS have an alternative youth program, male or female, for those seeking a scoutlike opportunity?

From the Founder's words (see the much quoted but often neglected guidance in "Aids to Scoumastership" noted by Nachamawat above), to BSA's insistance to make relgious faith a basis rather than a support to the Scouting program, we are still left with the need to "agree to disagree". As it happens, the BSA has been somewhat unique in it's acknowledgement of religion. Many other national Scout associations around the world make no mention of faith or religion in their particular Law. And the published definition of the BSA Law has evolved over the years: " A Scout is Reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion." (1911 to 1972) " A Scout is Reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. (1972 thru the present) By including spiritual faith in the official program, BSA has both improved and made more difficult our task as Scout leaders. Should we acknowledge and encourage the faiths propounded by our Scouts and their families? Absolutely. Should we criticize their choices? Absolutely not. Should we seek to accomodate their needs? As much as possible. I keep coming back to Father Mulcahy in MASH (the TV series, not the movie), who went out of his way to ease the way of not only his Catholic soldiers and Korean natives, but also the Jewish and Buddhist ones as well. My Quaker flavored version of Christianity is mine. It is, in my experience, the easiest way for God to find me. I am always ready to share my experience with others, but I do not begrudge any others their method. I find it to be well suited to me and my family. Readers of this forum will note my stories about conversations with many other faiths. I welcome this. When I have been asked to lead the "Scout's Own" discussion for IOLS, I note that in respect to a religious observance at a camp out or on the trail, the Scout leader and his/her unit has four choices. 1) Make no acknowledgement. Don't offend or approve by not attempting a religious observance of any kind. Leave the "duty to God" totally to the Scout's own conscience. 2) If your unit is known to be mono-faith, make a small religious service of appropriate ceremony. Use your Chaplain's Aide and let them take the lead in the service planning and execution. Adult faith leaders may be included as appropriate to the faith. Pray, sing, etc. as led. 3) Experiment, let other faiths have a turn in leading an acknowledgment of God's leadership. But make sure parents and Scouts realize that they may be exposed to another tradition other than their own. (I remember my Methodist Church Troop attending a Jewish Synagogue). You can stop at the local church or synagogue on your way out or going home. Nothing like a bunch of trail weary Scouts in the back pews of the local church to start conversation. 4) Any attempt at being inclusive and all incompassing may not be successful, for all the reasons noted in this thread and others. You can't please everyone and you can certainly offend many without trying hard. I then suggest any such acknowledgement should be about 10 or 15 minutes long, be heavy on thankfulness and realizing God's creation. I usually then gave them my attempt at an inclusive "Scout's Own". It includes prayers from Navahoe, Christian, Koranic, Jewish, Irish, and Iroquois traditions. It includes some leader reading/ group response, and single reading/prayer. I say that should anyone find they cannot say what is suggested, they may pass. I remind them that, as I love God and Christ, I would not subject them to my song leading, but that is a personal choice. I have had folks in my IOLS groups of Muslim, Jewish, Lutheran, LDS, Catholic, and various Protestant persuasions. I have not had any give me any negative feed back. Perhaps they were only being polite? Our choices in religion are laid on us first by our families, then by our life situations. Our families require us to attend church (or not), listen to our priest or Immam (or avoid such). We learn to accept or reject that and move on. One chance passes us by as another opens up for us. As Spock said, "there are always choices". What follows is the recorded testimony of James Naylor, on his deathbed, just before his death at age 44 in 1650. It speaks to me and I recommend it to you. "There is a spirit which I feel, that delights to do no evil, nor to avenge any wrong, but delights to endure all things in hope to enjoy its own in the end. It's hope is to outlive all wrath and contention, and to weary out all exaltation and cruelty, or whatever is of a nature contrary to itself. It sees to the end of all temptations. As it bears no evil in itself, so it conceives none in thought to any other: if it be betrayed, it bears it; for its ground and spring are the mercies and forgiveness of God. Its crown is meekness, its life is everlasting love unfeigned, and takes its kingdom with entreaty, and not with contention, and keeps it by lowliness of mind. In God alone it can rejoice, though none else regard it, or can own its life. It is conceived in sorrow, and brought forth without any to pity it; nor doth it murmur at grief, and oppression. It never rejoiceth but through sufferings; for with the world's joy it is murdered. I found it alone, being forsaken. I have fellowship therein with them who lived in dens, and desolate places of the earth, who through death obtained this resurrection, and eternal holy life." Happy Easter time to you all. (This message has been edited by SSScout)

May I guess? 'Scout's Own' discussion? From Rumi: Let the beauty we love be what we do. From the Navahoe: Before me peaceful, behind me peaceful, under me peaceful, around me peaceful. Robbie Burns: (with appropriate accent, if possible) Sum ha' meat, and canna eat, sum ca' eat but ha' nun. But WE ca' eat and we ha' meat, and so the Laird be thank-ed. Try www.religioustolerance.org www.boyscouttrail.com www.usscouts.org for other graces and prayers.

What he said. We would wrap an egg in a slice of bread and pack it in the billy pot of our BSA cook kit. That would be the toast and egg for the next morning on the trail. Bacon wrapped in waxed paper around the bread and egg. Good for at least one day w/o refrigeration. Speaking of fresh eggs... The Ballad of Hard Luck Henry By Robert W. Service Now wouldn't you expect to find a man an awful crank That's staked out nigh three hundred claims, and every one a blank; That's followed every fool stampede, and seen the rise and fall Of camps where men got gold in chunks and he got none at all; That's prospected a bit of ground and sold it for a song To see it yield a fortune to some fool that came along; That's sunk a dozen bedrock holes, and not a speck in sight, Yet sees them take a million from the claims to left and right? Now aren't things like that enough to drive a man to booze? But Hard Luck Smith was hoodoo-proof- he knew the way to lose. 'Twas in the fall of nineteen-four- leap year I've heard them say- When Hard-Luck came to Hunker Creek and took a hillside lay, And lo! as if to make amends for all the futile past, Late in the year he struck it rich, the real pay-streak at last. The riffles of his sluicing-box were choked with speckled earth, And night and day he worked that lay for all that he was worth. And when in chill December's gloom his lucky lease expired, He found that he had made a stake as big as he desired. One day while meditating on the waywardness of fate, He felt the ache of lonely man to find a fitting mate; A petticoated pard to cheer his solitary life, A woman with soft, soothing ways, a confidant, a wife. And while he cooked his supper on his little Yukon stove, He wished that he had staked a claim in Love's rich treasure-trove; When suddenly he paused and held aloft a Yukon egg, For there in pencilled letters was the magic name of Peg. You know these Yukon eggs of ours- some pink, some green, some blue- A dollar per, assorted tints, assorted flavors, too! The supercilious cheechako might designate them nigh, But one acquires a taste for them and likes them by-and-by. Well, Hard-Luck Henry took this egg and held it to the light, And there was more faint pencilling that sorely taxed his sight. At last he made it out, and then the legend ran like this- "Will Klondike miner write to Peg, Plumhollow, Squashville, Wis?" That night he got to thinking of this far-off, unknown fair; It seemed so sort of opportune, an answer to his prayer She flitted sweetly through his dreams, she haunted him by day, She smiled through clouds of nicotine, she cheered his weary way. At last he yielded to the spell; his course of love he set- Wisconsin his objective point, his object, Margaret. With every mile of sea and land his longing grew and grew He practiced all his pretty words, and these, I fear, were few. At last, one frosty evening, with a cold chill down his spine, He found himself before her house, the threshold of the shrine. His courage flickered to a spark, then glowed with sudden flame, He knocked; he heard a welcome word; she came-his goddess came! Oh, she was fair as any flower, and huskily he spoke. "I'm all the way from Klondike, with a mighty heavy poke. I'm looking for a lassie, one whose Christian name is Peg, Who sought a Klondike miner, and who wrote it on an egg." The lassie gazed at him a space, her cheeks grew rosy red, She gazed at him with tear-bright eyes, then tenderly she said, "Yes, lonely Klondike miner, it is true my name is Peg. It's also true I longed for you and wrote it on an egg. My heart went out to someone in that land of night and cold; But oh, I fear that Yukon egg must have been mighty old I waited long, I hoped and feared; you should have come before; I've been a wedded woman now for eighteen months or more. I'm sorry, since you've come so far, you ain't the one that wins; But won't you take a step inside? I'll let you see the twins! *From "Ballads Of A Cheechako" Published 1909

Man, I'm sure gald they don't charge extra for all this extra entertainment. Boubon Pecan, please. You may drizzle with dark chocolate sauce, if you have it.

JiKC: Absolutely. When the boy signs up, the parent(s) are also handed an app and it is explained how important it is to the Troops success to have an active Committee. Oh, BTW, was that the parent helicopter or the UFO helicopters you referred to?

How many Patrols? How many judges? say, 3 tour around to each Patrol site and sample cuisine? Deadline for cooking finish ("Meal must be ready to serve at 6pm")? Add points (so many for this plus so many for that) or take away points (start with 100, deduct 2 for each pot/utensil used in cooking, 3 off for bark in the ragoo, etc.)? Extra credit for serving and ambience of meal setting? Patrol sits together at a hand built lashed table or scattered around tent site? Does sanitary prep count? Overall hygiene? Hand wash station? Does Clean up count? Camp stove or Camp fire? Charcoal or only wood? Camp Kitchen Safety: everyone Totin' Chip equipped? Fire prevention equipped? Patrol Style points: Chef hats, aprons, etc. Grace said? Are they listed in the Mobil Guide? Give ""STARS"" for outstanding Haut Scout Cuisine!! Bone Appetitee!(This message has been edited by SSScout)

How old is the Troop? Find the "first" Eagle, if he's still around, ask him to come and speak about his time and his challenges. Seven at once is a wonderful opportunity, but as has been said, it's the boy'(s) party. Work with (him) them and do it right. Newspaper coverage? PR? Search these forums, you'll find many types of ceremonies, both grand and humble. From Petite Fours to hotdogs and slaw. Congrats to all. Continued Good Scouting to them all.

Scoutfriendshortridge: Good sabertooth chop. Light weight carry no u-ten-sil, no need. Eat when burned sufficiently. Ummmmm. Wipe hand on loin cloth.

760: Yep, as in all volunteer groups, the work is done by whoever shows up. It's good if all the TC members take the "TCMember" training (online), but really, any Troop parent who shows up is on the committee. And, indeed, the TC members need not be parents in the Troop. Our home Troop's CC has a son who graduated from Scouts more than a few years ago. He still serves as TCC and very well too. Keeps us all up to date and ready. Many of the active TC members are new to Scouting, some old timers. All are supportive, with ideas, time, experience, and ownership of the various tasks and activities necessary to the Scout Troop Program. A good TCC works the phone, invites EVERY Tparent to participate, works to eliminate cliques and "old boy" networks, for soon the "old boys" won't be there anymore and then the "young boys" ;-) need to take over or there will soon be no Troop. Remain on the ethical high ground, do not allow yourself to be brought down to their level. Good Scouting to you.

Measurable and verifiable. In our Mega Council, the WBers came from all corners of the realm. I had one Patrol mate (hoot hoot) lived about 12 miles away from me, everyone else, some more than 40, across the river. Our TG was almost 50(!) miles away from me, the WB SM about 15. The TG was, as you say, our Ticket Counselor. We communicated mostly by email. He worked selling (among other things... duct tape!) And traveled more than alittle. When I thought I had all my ducks in a row for any Ticket item, I made copies, wrote a letter about it all and mailed them to the TG. He would email back with "congrats" or "I think you need thus and so...". Or he might phone me and we'd talk. Only time we'd meet in person would be for one of my Patrolmates beading, we'd talk then, too. You'll know when you're done. When you tell your TG, he'll know too.

All parents in the Troop are ex officio on the TC. Make sure all know about the purchase. The Treasurer must make all transactions open and available to the TC, this is only reasonable. How is the trailer titled? Who owns it? Who purchased the tags? Who holds the registration? Who insures it? The COrg by rights (unless the Troop is 'self chartered', another can of worms) owns the trailer and the IH and COR should be made aware of any great capital acquisition. These issues all need to be addressed ,too, besides internecine politics. I was once part of an organization that did sponsor hikes and canoe trips and such (not Scouts) and we always "rented" a van from one of our loyal parents. We felt the org should not OWN such equipment. Our rental agreement allowed for insurance and responsibility for various contingencies. He kept the van in good repair, we used it for good purposes, he was paid a reasonable sum for use of his van. Kept our costs down and predictable.

It all boils down to desire. Do you want to make cars (or widgets) or do you want to make money? Henry Ford early on realized that it would be a good thing if the workers in his factories could afford to buy (and want to buy) the products they produced. If you want to make money, then design and connive to do so. If you want to make cars, then design them to be efficient, dependable and useful. You will make money. If you desire to make too much money, well, see what happens? Making things that are designed to be used is different than making things that are designed to be sold. One of the ironic things is the gigabucks the CEOs have been paid are, in my opinion, "make believe" money; that is to say first, it isn't cash it is for the most part 'promised ' money. Second, the multi millions that have been amassed by these giants of industry, are pretty much unusable for any real purpose. If the stocks are cashed in, the stock market drops. If the cash in the banks is used to buy yachts or private islands, this does not improve the industrial base and help support the folks that must buy the products that they make. It is ,therfore, entirely appropriate that if our tax money, borrowed tho it may be from our grandchildren, is used to prop up or delay the demise of an industry, that conditions be palced on it's use and that it's users be held accountable for the required use AND that all this be held up for the publics perusal and consideration. My '96 Mercury Villager (Nissan Quest that it is) has 206,000 miles and I anticipate many more canoe and camp trips.

What you want is "Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts" Pub. #13-550. I don't think it is "officially" available online. You should check with your Council Store. My copy is c/r 2004. Someone nearby will have a copy you can copy. Gunpowder firearms are inappropriate for Cubs, but air powered BBs are ok with appropriate planning and Range Officering, etc. Also Slingshots and Archery, which our Cubs really love. Think basic safety: Range demarcation, access limits, target backups, safe technique instruction and practice, range discipline and decorum, all that stuff.

Uhh... Burn saber tooth chop, teeth, hand, why need , what you say, u - ten - sil?

"Shoes? You had shoes?" Can't remember why I joined Cubs, but I did. My mom and neighbor mom were Den moms. I think my dad had the unfinished basement done out in knotty pine just so we'd have a good place for Den meetings. He cut out the cork for the Thunder Bird key holders, the plywood for the glued on magazine picture mom's day presents, drove us for the Den and Pack trips (mom didn't get her license until she was, gee, mid fortys?). Taught me how to care for paintbrushes properly, nice lettering and poster making (spelling! Penmanship! Composition!). No font finding back then! Of course we had the whole uniform, pants too long and hemmed up, let down as I grew. Yellow piped pockets, buttoned down on one side and up on the other (Why??). Brown "Buster Brown" O.I. BSA Shoes from the (Trivia: what was BB's dogs's name?) Hecht Co. Big ol' boat of a Buick Roadmaster with 6 or 7 Cubs (no seatbelts) on our way (in full uni) to visit the Zoo, or County Fair. Scout-a-rama at the County Fair grounds, our Pack sold ready made popcorn (not Scout type yet). Only popcorn at the Scoutarama! We sold out early, as I recall. My dad went to the local movie theater, they told him where to go to get HUGE bags of the freshly already popped corn, and as I remember, they DONATED all of it! Filled up the whole Buick R/M, barely room for him and me. Boy, that was along time ago...

The problem with being from Delaware appears to be a lack of opportunity. Opportunity of title proliferation. 'Round here, near our Nations Capitol, along with all the worthy folks you mention, we also boast of Deputy District Executives, Regional Directors (overseeing multiple Districts), various Assistant Scout Executives and, altho I can't remember the men's titles, a few Pros that hold sway over multi State Areas (Central Atlantic?). Then I know a fellow who is a "Water Front Manager Trainer", travels around to various camps and training... WFMs! We could talk about us non-pros, too...

Oh, one more thing occurs to me. Patriotic sentiments aside, a really impressive sight can be a "massed" flag group in a parade. Get together with some more Cub Packs (and Scout Troops?), work to get many US and State and Troop and Pack flags together, make them Scout size appropriate, and work to get a sizable contingent together. Think of the possibilities, yes?