SSScout

History lesson: Dateline: Sandy Spring, MD. 1803. Local inventor Thomas Moore patents a "Refrigerator" (his coining of the word). He uses it to carry butter from his farm to Washington DC without spoilage. It consists of concentric cedar boxes (the butter being in the inner most cedar box) and packed in ice (cut last winter and kept in a buried insulated covered pit until needed), insulated with rabbit fir and enclosed in a final box of tin. Today, this would be called an "ice box". I say crank it out...the effort makes the treat that much more enjoyed.

It is history, nothing more. Ask how the Park Rangers treat it when they lower it? Then too, ask them how they treat the USA flag when they lower that. Perhaps they fly the US flag of the period, 32 stars? Any difference? I hope so. I would lower it, fold it up like my table cloth and if it is being "retired", put it in the fire first. The US flag last, and with due ceremony. Edited: My wife just pointed out that these were, indeed, Americans, too. Perhaps badly misguided, but still. She also mentioned that if any music is to be played, Taps at the end, but Dixie before. "If it was good enough for President Lincoln, why not now?" (This message has been edited by SSScout)

Lost the medal? Sad. I still have a shoebox full of Scout regalia. Two shoe boxes, actually. And my Uncle Frank's. Scout membership card signed (stamped) by Theodore Roosevelt. Yeah, it is a 'stamp' but still kinda cool. Scoutson askes to see the stuff sometimes. Marvels at the old necker slides I made. Led him to try his hand at carving. He might make Eagle yet, start his own shoebox.

www.scoutstuff.org , "flags and ribbons", custom made.

Shortridge and Sctdad: Berets and other head gear not withstanding: See previous thread: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=183742#id_184042 "Little Red Corvette" and "Raspberry beret" Wonder if he was The Singer That Usta Be A Scout?

Bear with me,I just read thru this thread just now. I heard some good observations and ideas. Here's a plan, and, mind, it would take some advance negotiations and discussions amongst everybody: TC, PLC, interested adults (you know who you are). Alot of back porch meetings, but if you have a Troop worth saving, might be worth it. Firstly, The Scoutmaster, with the support of the Troop Committee sets the program, yes? So the SM comes up and announces the establishment of the "Trail Draggers" Patrol, and here 'tis: and all the ASMs and other adult hangers on step forward. Now, the SM announces a Patrol competition for camping, hiking etc. here are the rules, here are the prizes, and here's when we're going to The Big Trek. They tell you to TEACH, DEMONSTRATE, and TRUST, meaning the boys. So, the SM with his PLC and Troop Guides become the Teachers. The TD Patrol becomes the Demonstrators. They camp the camp and hike the hike. BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE FROM THE BOYS. Now the hard part. The Patrols go about Scouting, with adult "watchers" or whatever you want to title them, but these "watchers" do not participate except by invitation of the Scouts OR if something really dumb and dangerous needs to be prevented. I think we all understand why I said this is the hard part. What Lisabob is describing is alot of parents that (1) want "quality time" with junior that maybe they didn't get earlier on and (2) want to relive and/or create the good Scout times they had (or lacked) waaay back when. Just gotta make the TD Patrol realize that they have to set and demonstrate the Scout way, NOT the (alleged) ADULT way. No adult beverages, frinstance. If the TD patrol is true to it's calling, the boys WILL try out their techniques and cuisine and will wonder why those old goats are on the trail so early when we're still cleaning the breakfast pots. Could the TD Patrol win the Patrol Competition? Are they even in the running? Depends. Mostly on how charitable the Troop leadership is and how proud the Boy Patrols are. But if you have that large an adult group that wishes to be that active, it could work. Bad things usually happen when energy is too tightly contained. Good things can happen when energy is rightly directed.

If you don't mind I will remind you that YOUR tickets should be YOURS. But it never hurts to be inspired by other ideas. When I tried for WB, I was an ASM, officially. But I worked the CSDC to good effect and presented my WB PG some Cub Scout ideas. I was politely told NO. Since I was a BS Leader "officially", I had to do BS stuff, I would not be permited to do CS tickets. Bummer. My PG and I scratched heads and realized that if I wanted to do CS stuff, I would either have to become a CS Leader, or develope BS tickets. Then he said, "on the other hand...", and said that perhaps there was another way (Tao). If I was a Unit Commissioner, I could concievably work both sides of the street. What's a Unit Commissioner? I asked. I was soon scheduled for a Commissioner's Class and signed a new Volunteer form. So, some ideas I have seen worked. Develope activity that allows Scouts to learn about other faiths than his own. Develope Cub Scout Belt Loop Bash, wherein Cubs can earn BL not ordinarily available. Encourage inter unit activities. Develope guide for Unit Media use. Help develope improved outdoor activities for "hot house" Troop. Public Library use by Scouts. More Den Chiefs. From a mono faith Unit: 50% will earn the Religious Award. Develope knot teaching game. Cub and BS units in Hispano Community. BS and GS relations. Nature Trail Grande. MB Counselor Grand Council List. Scout history presentation, traveling show. Just a few...

Sharpy: See? What did I tell you? As you look thru all this good counsel, you may detect a pattern. Sympathy, recognition, choices. And our sure knowledge that you'll be okay and your Cubs will be the better. You dun good. Spend a little time to list your assets and then get on with it! God speed and YiS

Sharpy: Hey, we;lcome...Please, have a seat... Pull up a log at our virtual campfire... I'll start off here, and no doubt we'll have a few more good ideas come up from around the circle. Firstly, I think it is very neat that you have a Scout dedicated cabin. Too bad about the AA. They do good work. Eventually you may get back on their good side, but that may have to wait. And it is great you have the VFW so interested, but now I have to ask, who is your Charter Organization? The City? the VFW? Someone else? The CO are the first folks you need to go to for support and advocasy(?). If the VFW was your CO, they could give your Pack all the support, both materially and financially, they wanted. I hope you don't need to go this thing alone. Who is your Committee Chair? Do you have a Pack Committee? Your DE sounds like a real gogetter. He helped you found the Pack, yes? Kindly remind him that , ultimately, "it's about the kids". You do need to find a few more allies, in the city council, the VFW and in the community at large. Volunteer Fire Dept.? Lions Club? Local church? Front page coverage? you got media connections? Use them. But veer to the side of NOT embarrassing folks. Work to show the good, fun stuff your Cubs are doing. Enlist the local hardware store and contractor to help fix up the Scout Cabin. Remind them of the great PR involved. Find the grown up Scouts out there. Use those school brochures again and recruit. A Scout Cabin. Ummmm... Need Scouts. Boy Scouts, too, not just Cubs. Any chance of forming a BSTroop? Is there one already "around"? Like real estate, you got "POE-TEN-SHUL". I hope and pray you can make the most of this most excellent opening you have been given. Stay tuned...

Make it a history lesson as well. Cast around and find ( or buy for future use) to borrow a set of "historic " flags and perform a bit of a flag pageant. Let your talk be about the evolution of our flag. From "Don't Tread on Me" and the "Pine Tree" flag and the "Union Jack" flag to the 13 stars and 15 star and stripe (the Old Glory) flag, to the 38 star and 48 star flag, to the 50 Star. Which star is your state? Does that matter? Did the colors and design have any original symbolism? Has the symbolism changed? Is the "value" of the US flag innate, or does it depend on us and our perception of the ideals it represents? When the old flags are to be 'retired', I hope you have a real campfire. Talk about the fires our GGGgrand parents gathered around and how they worked for the country we have today (not only in battle). I have seen this done to good effect: After the patiotic intro, the Scouts take the flag by it's corners and stretches it out between the fire and the audience. The light from the fire shines thru the flag. In one motion, they stretch the flag over the fire and throw the corners into the middle. Quick burn. Next pair of Scouts step up, same routine. Do with each flag. Sing some songs. Maybe a skit or two, if you can remember some that are not too unserious? Have fun. Serve hot dogs before or after.

*sigh* Search these many forums about CSDC... Use many variations. Lots of good ideas out here. In the mean time, it might be a little late to sign up to go to Camp School (check with your DE or DD. You should be able to go on the Council dime...), but you need to get an immediate good working relationship with your Camp Director. The activities that the Cubs run around in and to depend on the two of you working together to get five days of 9 to 4 (or 3:30 or however your schedule is set) fun and memories. Archery, Nature, Scoutcraft, Fishing, BB gun, Virtual Campfire skits and songs and cheers, Crafts, Specials (fire trucks, guest wowsers, helicopters, trick ropers, be creative), whatever is available. Work the District Commissioner Corps and phones and Roundtables for Scouter staff and Scout Jr. staff. Staff skits at day opening help set the spirit of the day. Get a bull horn to save your voice. Always remember, when asking for help, the words "Cub Scouts" can open many doors. Neighboring military camp? Community college? Hardware store? Police Medivac chopper? Construction Contractor? KISMIF.

Let's clear up the confusion that happens every time this subject comes up. And yes, I realize all the following is paraphrased alot... Totin' Chip::: Boy Scout award. Indicates the Boy Scout has learned and demonstrated that he can use and properly care for knife, axe, and saw safely and responsibly. The boy has "permission" to carry and use those tools at Scout activities. This previlege can be revoked if ...and here is where it gets muddy. Leader descretion and Unit tradition comes in. Whittlin' Chit:: Cub Scout award. Indicates that the Bear or Webelos Cub Scout (NOT Tiger or Wolf) has learned and demonstrated that he can use ONLY a folding pocket knife safely and responsibly. I'd like to think that the W/C class also included safe and proper handling all other knives as well (cooking, etc.). The boy has "permission" WITH HIS PARENTS KNOWLEDGE AND PERMISSION, to carry and use a pocket knife at Cub Scout activities ONLY. AND AGAIN, this privelege can be revoked if...Same here, leader discretion and Unit tradition. Chips and Chits. Teach'em and demonstrate how all the time. Boy, will they catch you if you don't say "thank you"! Or don't sweep a safety circle!. Insist on the best behavior and you are more likely to get it. Safety first.

Call your Council office and ask to speak with the Program Director. She/he should be able to tell you the what/how and /when. ` As for opportunity, after the Council camp ranges, check to see if someone in your Pack/Troop/ friend circle is a member of Isaac Walton League. They often have air rifle range that Scouts can use with proper certification, membership, etc. Very often, IWL allows Cub Scout Day Camp on their land and the Cub Rangemaster uses their target range. Be safe, and KISMIF.

"Cutting Corners" is definitely a unit affectation. Warnings, PLC meetings, SM and ASM judgements, I've heard of many different versions of Totin' Chip discipline. The standard should be safety first and mature behavior. Pocket knives falling out of pockets is a mishap. Wish I still had my uncles knife that fell out somewhere on the AT near Pine Knob Shelter. Leaving it on the table after use (folded up) is perhaps purposeful, but not a safety issue (it was folded up?). Waving a closed knife around to show off a birthday present (saw this one) warrants a warning and talk-to about Scout behavior, even if it was closed. Throwing knife target practice (heard about it) warrants instant T/C revocation. The need , always, is to impress on the Scout during T/C (or, come to think about it, Whittlin' Chit with Cubs) training the importance to "respect the edge" and treat the tool with mature respect, not childish glee. That can lead to injury and regret. If you have to revoke, don't forget to "debrief" and remind the Scout they may re-earn the T/C the next time around... Here I was at a Cub Pack Pop Corn award ceremony. "Jeffrey sold umpteen tons of popcorn and he is awarded this POCKET KNIFE!!" (cheers). Jeffrey shakes the CM hand, takes the small box back to his table, opens it up and proceeds to unfold all the blades to show his dad and mom and Denmates. Starts to wave it round like a Starwars Tie Fighter. I walked over (yes, in the middle of the ceremony. I could see this going to a bad place. There were other awards to come!)and said "Jeffery? That's a fine knife. Can I show you how to handle this safely, please?" As the Pack UC, I was known had some clout. "Thank you. Here's how to close it right. See? No fingers missing!. Now, I think maybe dad should help you keep this sharp item safe and help show you how to use it , okay?" Dad looks at me and nods his head, silently saying 'thank you' as he takes the knife from me. Two weeks later, I had the Bears and Webelos in Mr. Jefferysdads rec room, teaching Whittlin' Chit. Gave the Dads copies of the W/C curriculum the District had developed and in a couple hours had eight Cubs reciting "respect the edge" and saying "thank you" everytime anything, much less a knife, was handed them. T/C: SM or ASM teach the PLC and TG. TG or PL teach the Tenderfoots.

Beg pardon, ev, Ecclesiastes 10:NINETEEN. Need less awake time... I view FoS as a necessary evil, to help buy & maintain property, etc. hope it doesn't really pay salaries., but, as has been stated here abouts, oft times the DEs mention it wrongly and without aforethought.

" A feast is made for laughter and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things." Elllesiastes 10:11

SR540beaver: You and I may agree on the definition of a terrorist but some folks don"t: "Homeland Security says Timothy McVeigh is not a Terrorist" http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/homeland-security-says-timothy-mcveigh-isnt-a-terrorist-but-peace-activists-are/701/ *sigh*

In our neck of the woods, a Camporee is a Scout activity, laid out with Patrol events. There are no stand arounds, you camp, you participate. Cubs and Webelos may visit, with parent accompaniment, but that is very rare. Webelos Weekend is the other thing. Webelos are invited to the Webelos Weekend by Scout Troops that organize and run "stations" for the Webs to participate in. Webs come as guests of a particular Troop. If a Cub Pack Web Den wants to come, and they don't have a host Troop, they are assigned one. Instant recruitment!

Trivia Quiz: Who said: "It's ONLY the beginning, folks, only the beginning...!" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/03/AR2009010301993.html

Baden-Powell... Aids to Scoutmastering Eric Sloan...Diary of an Early American Boy Gary Paulson... Hatchet Anything by Ernest Thompson Seton Oh, and go to SLST and IOLS ASAP.

I tried to spin this off as a seperate thread, but non-function and too many "error" messages. Jblake's "summer Cows" put me in mind of the idea that what I call "joining jokes" are a good way to include folks in the group. Here's one that you do VOCALLY but has to be understood ALPHABETICALLY... The leader says the 'truism' and as folks figure out or know the 'rule' used, they join in and add more... Here goes... >>Silly Sally wears boots but not shoes. >>Silly Sally loves apples and bannanas but not pears. >> Her brother, Happy Harry, goes swimming and running, but never dives or walks. >> For his Nature Merit Badge, he studied Loons and Moose and Deer and Rabbits, but no Beavers or Skunks or Gophers. He sleeps deeply, but never naps. Any more???

It just isn't your turn yet... "Maryland State Police Admit to Keeping List of Non-Violent Activists on List of Possible Terrorists" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245.html I personally know two folks on the list...

I was gonna start a new thread, but couldn't get the spin off function to work from Snipe Hunt... Jblake47's "summer cows" gag reminded me that what I call "join 'em jokes" can be a means to help include folks (both young and not so) in the group. This one is done VOCALLY but must be understood ALPHABETICALLY, if you see what I mean. You start off with one example, and if anyone else knows the rule, they chime in. Others try out new examples and as they figure it out, presto! You have a new member of the club!: >> Silly Sally wears boots but not shoes. >> Silly Sally loves bannanas but hates pears. Likes apples, too. >> Her brother, Happy Harry, goes swimming but doesn't dive. >> Happy Harry goes jogging and running but never walks. >> They both adore balloons and spoons but not toys. Any More out there?

I tell ya, we need a "Religion and Chaplaincy" forum... J-K-C, I thank you for your passion. It adds to my knowledge of the wonderful mix that is BSA (or isn't). I've often wondered if there was a counter proof to the supposition that religion always supported Scouting. BSA attempts to use the respectful 'agree to disagree' that exists between the various faiths in the world and ,voila, here's the LCWS that stands up and says "no, we can't and here's why". I've often been asked, "do you have to be Christian to be a Boy Scout?". I've never been asked any variant of that ("do you have to be Jewish, Lutheran, Muslim, Pagan, etc.....?"). This must indicate something. Beavah: I tend to agree with the franchise/contractor model for Scouting, but when the possible franchisee doesn't think the BSA model is close enough to their idea of a youth program, then it gets adapted (Royal Rangers comes to mind). Maybe it isn't inclusive enough. Campfire is an alternative. It does get interesting when we are asked to "encourage the boy's faith" and find out that we are not supposed to encourage him in OUR faith. Again, please note the subtle change in the 12th point's published definition in 1972. "...and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion." (1911 til 1972) "...He respects the beliefs of others." (1972 to present) I think the LCWS's stance is wonderful. It contrasts nicely with certain other groups that would rather change the BSA to suit themselves instead of inventing another choice. Question: does the LCWS have an alternative youth program, male or female, for those seeking a scoutlike opportunity?

From the Founder's words (see the much quoted but often neglected guidance in "Aids to Scoumastership" noted by Nachamawat above), to BSA's insistance to make relgious faith a basis rather than a support to the Scouting program, we are still left with the need to "agree to disagree". As it happens, the BSA has been somewhat unique in it's acknowledgement of religion. Many other national Scout associations around the world make no mention of faith or religion in their particular Law. And the published definition of the BSA Law has evolved over the years: " A Scout is Reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion." (1911 to 1972) " A Scout is Reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. (1972 thru the present) By including spiritual faith in the official program, BSA has both improved and made more difficult our task as Scout leaders. Should we acknowledge and encourage the faiths propounded by our Scouts and their families? Absolutely. Should we criticize their choices? Absolutely not. Should we seek to accomodate their needs? As much as possible. I keep coming back to Father Mulcahy in MASH (the TV series, not the movie), who went out of his way to ease the way of not only his Catholic soldiers and Korean natives, but also the Jewish and Buddhist ones as well. My Quaker flavored version of Christianity is mine. It is, in my experience, the easiest way for God to find me. I am always ready to share my experience with others, but I do not begrudge any others their method. I find it to be well suited to me and my family. Readers of this forum will note my stories about conversations with many other faiths. I welcome this. When I have been asked to lead the "Scout's Own" discussion for IOLS, I note that in respect to a religious observance at a camp out or on the trail, the Scout leader and his/her unit has four choices. 1) Make no acknowledgement. Don't offend or approve by not attempting a religious observance of any kind. Leave the "duty to God" totally to the Scout's own conscience. 2) If your unit is known to be mono-faith, make a small religious service of appropriate ceremony. Use your Chaplain's Aide and let them take the lead in the service planning and execution. Adult faith leaders may be included as appropriate to the faith. Pray, sing, etc. as led. 3) Experiment, let other faiths have a turn in leading an acknowledgment of God's leadership. But make sure parents and Scouts realize that they may be exposed to another tradition other than their own. (I remember my Methodist Church Troop attending a Jewish Synagogue). You can stop at the local church or synagogue on your way out or going home. Nothing like a bunch of trail weary Scouts in the back pews of the local church to start conversation. 4) Any attempt at being inclusive and all incompassing may not be successful, for all the reasons noted in this thread and others. You can't please everyone and you can certainly offend many without trying hard. I then suggest any such acknowledgement should be about 10 or 15 minutes long, be heavy on thankfulness and realizing God's creation. I usually then gave them my attempt at an inclusive "Scout's Own". It includes prayers from Navahoe, Christian, Koranic, Jewish, Irish, and Iroquois traditions. It includes some leader reading/ group response, and single reading/prayer. I say that should anyone find they cannot say what is suggested, they may pass. I remind them that, as I love God and Christ, I would not subject them to my song leading, but that is a personal choice. I have had folks in my IOLS groups of Muslim, Jewish, Lutheran, LDS, Catholic, and various Protestant persuasions. I have not had any give me any negative feed back. Perhaps they were only being polite? Our choices in religion are laid on us first by our families, then by our life situations. Our families require us to attend church (or not), listen to our priest or Immam (or avoid such). We learn to accept or reject that and move on. One chance passes us by as another opens up for us. As Spock said, "there are always choices". What follows is the recorded testimony of James Naylor, on his deathbed, just before his death at age 44 in 1650. It speaks to me and I recommend it to you. "There is a spirit which I feel, that delights to do no evil, nor to avenge any wrong, but delights to endure all things in hope to enjoy its own in the end. It's hope is to outlive all wrath and contention, and to weary out all exaltation and cruelty, or whatever is of a nature contrary to itself. It sees to the end of all temptations. As it bears no evil in itself, so it conceives none in thought to any other: if it be betrayed, it bears it; for its ground and spring are the mercies and forgiveness of God. Its crown is meekness, its life is everlasting love unfeigned, and takes its kingdom with entreaty, and not with contention, and keeps it by lowliness of mind. In God alone it can rejoice, though none else regard it, or can own its life. It is conceived in sorrow, and brought forth without any to pity it; nor doth it murmur at grief, and oppression. It never rejoiceth but through sufferings; for with the world's joy it is murdered. I found it alone, being forsaken. I have fellowship therein with them who lived in dens, and desolate places of the earth, who through death obtained this resurrection, and eternal holy life." Happy Easter time to you all. (This message has been edited by SSScout)