SSScout

Possibilities: Goshen Scout Reservation, off I81 in VA, near Goshen VA. Check out http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=15974&orgkey=1933 Call National Capital Area Council 301-530-9360 Heritage Scout Reservation, near Uniontown PA. Greater Pittsburgh Council(412) 471-2927 Blue Ridge Scout Reservation, South of Roanoke VA. off I81. Blue Ridge Mountain Council http://www.bsa-brmc.org/ Leave some time for site seeing! Good Scouting to you!

I find it hard to believe that a whole DEN wants to sabotage the B&G. If I understand your situation, you have TWO Webelos 2 Dens, and one family in Den A (say) doesn't "get along" with the Den A leader? Have I got that right? I trust Den B is fine? And the Den B leader wants to have the Webelos (in Den A and Den B?) come to her/his celebration rather than attend the B&G with the family in question? Bizarre. How does this help the boys... If there is time to mend fences, find your UC or DE and see if they have any experience in conflict resolution. It may be too late to try and understand the dynamics that led to this imbroglio, but the techniques and responses presented by others here may be the only thing to do. If the Council Scout Shop does it's thing correctly, as had been said, only the CM or CC or Advancement chair can purchase awards. "I'm sorry you feel that way". Hold the awards until after the B&G and present them at the next Pack meeting to those that "missed" the B&G. I expect that the "Crossover" would be seperate from the AoL at the B&G? It should be... Is it only the parents or do the boys have problems too? Feeding off their Parents attitudes? Keep to the high ground and try not to be pulled into their whirlpool of ill will. YiS

Oh yes. A trunk. Don't try to live out of a backpack and cardboard boxes all summer. Think about a trunk with shelves and little buckets along the side to help organize stuff.

A platform tent, I hope. With cots? Beside the usual camping stuff, (and consider what has been suggested previous): Pillows Folding chair. Two, if you like company. Writing tablets, pens, pencils, envelopes, stamps, addresses. Duct Tape. 1/4" cord, 200' Money for the camp store, for the stuff you forget. Extra Scout (and other kind) Tshirts for trading. Patches, too, if you like. Cool, unique, hat. Sun glasses for waterfront. Skit props. Have fun!

The pride of appearance needs be infused early on. Also, the uniform thing can often be seen as a "power struggle" ("you can't make me"). I once had a Cub Scout in my Pack that participated in most things, but wore his uniform shirt unbuttoned. Entirely unbuttoned. His mom had properly sewn on all the insignia, he wore a necker, but his mom announced to me, the CM, that "buttons made Timmy uncomfortable", therefore he had no other shirts that buttoned. Us other parents thought this was a litttle bizarre, but okay, everyone's different. At one meeting, I knelt down in front of Timmy and said to him, in front of his mom,"gee Timmy, I think you look sharp in your uniform. But I see in your hurry to get to the meeting, you forgot to button up your shirt. I usta have trouble with that, never could get the buttons even, here let me help" and I proceeded to button up his shirt. He stood there and did not protest. Mom said nothing. Timmy came to all meetings after that buttoned and tucked. Now, I don't suggest doing that with a thirteen year old Star Scout. But ya never know.

Basement: It's nice to have such a sympathetic DE, but the UFP is there to clarafy and eliminate any worry. I always think that it's good to have it in writing? If something comes up? Not saying it would, but...? Mom's fudge bars wrapped in Saranwrap... "Mom's Best Fudge Bars" wrapped in an FDA approved cellophane listing ingredients and RDAs... perhaps two different things?

GKlose has a good handle on things. Ever since BP "discovered" Scouting, things have developed in the usual organizational way. There are some things that an individual can't do alone: grow up, learn how to live successfully. So we have families. There are some things that a family can't do alone. So we have schools and police and hospitals and auto garages and farms and factories. There are some things that our towns and communities can't do alone, and so we have our Counties and States and nation. So too do we Scouts have things a Scout might not accomplish by himself. Even the "Lone Scout" is part of a larger group so as to accomplish more, be more. There are things the single Scout can be more successful at, learn more from, make more memories from, in a Patrol. And the Patrol can go further, see farther, learn more with a Troop. So some Troops (and Packs and Crews) get together to do bigger things. Presto! A District! Us adults make opportunities for our kids, and seek to make sure our progeny learn from OUR mistakes (and not have to do the same thing again) and go forward knowing what we know to be true and good; so waaay back when, BSA was created to help keep things organized and set some standards for all to agree to. "Trust me. I'm from National" ;-) Seriously, the hybrid organization of "professional" and "volunteer" that BSA operates with has it's drawbacks and advantages. But it is ultimately up to us volunteers to give our sons and daughters the opportunities. It is for the pros to support us. And vice versa. Now, last night a bunch of us like minded folks sat around a table at the Town Tavern and learned from each other about our individual experiences. Some because we love the ideas of Scouting, some because they also earn their living at it (another thread, perhaps). So historically, if memory serves, a talented volunteer comes up with an idea (Pinewood Derby?), the pros take that idea, codifies it and keeps it alive and "franchises" it. Cub Scout Day Camp anyone?

It is mprtnt to ndrstnd bbrvtns. ftn, thy r nt a prblm bt it tks sm mgntn to ndrstnd thm. Jargon. AoL is not a requirement to join Boy Scouts. But still, crossover when the Troop is ready to receive them. And get them into summer camp and involved. YiS

Each Pack is different, in size, number of Dens, composition, etc. So each Pack can decide what awards to award. Make it fun and worth while so they will want to participate next year. A PWD patch to everyone. A "Divers License" sounds like fun. After Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Web1, Web2 that makes 5 patches! Ribbons , with crossed flags, or car buttons, or such atttached. Sounds like time to get the "brag vest"! See to providing the boys with their red felt vests! Get BIG sizes, they will grow abit in the interim. Search this forum for "vest" patterns, I know we have talked about such things. A Cub can collect a goodly number of patches and ribbons in his career. Give'm a place to show'em off.

I presume you are near Chattanooga... Might be some bucks involved, but Cubs love train rides: Check out the Tennesee Valley Railroad http://www.tvrail.com/ KiS MiF YiS

! Make money! Lower FoS goals! Increase the camp endowments! Rent Lake Merriwether at Goshen to the Coast Guard for ice berg training! In the off season!

Ummmmm.... Possibilities here... Unit promotion... Fundraising... Charter Org relations (do it for the members of the CO for free or for fee) Community relations... I like it! How far to open this? Just the Troop? The attached Cub Pack? The CO? Friends and Family? Notice in the newspaper? Show Disney cartoons? Games? Hotdogs and popcorn? Liability issues (horror)?

Get a hold of the District DE or if you are lucky your assigned Unit Commish. Somewhere along the line there is a District Program Person (Executive, Chair, VP, Campchair, some sort title). He/she would love to come out and make a presentation to your unit about Cub Scout Camping and the various permutations thereby. Family Camping, BALOO Pack camping, Cub Scout Day Camp, Webelos Weekend and Webelos Camp at the Council Camp. Son and One, Troop/Webelos invite, OWL (could be called WELOT)Webelos Den Camping . Yes, your Council may have a promo DVD, but you will benefit from a gung-ho special presentation, if possible. Thank you for being the "go to" person in your Cub Pack. Keep up the better than average work!

Buttons, hooks, velcro... BSkip: No, but I did recently retire from a local guvmnt job ( they made me an offer...) and if you know of anything... Congressional planning? An oxymoron?

jblake: At my Troop summer camp, we had four patrols and our various activity areas spaced out thru about ten acres of woods. The Troop bugler served a real purpose and the Troop leadership insisted in it. Check out the thread "Taking a Poll - Bugling" "http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=213241&p=1"? It totally depends on SOMEONE being willing to bugle and SOMEONE encouraging them and using that resource.

Hal: Don't forget the "supercamporee" planned for that 2010 summer before the REAL NJ? NCAC was talking about 10,000 at Goshen? I recently received a email asking for an opinion about holding it over the Memorial Day weekend? Their idea is this would take the place of any District Spring Camporee? Trial run? Jammed roads? Organization test?

1) Buy the longer sash. (shoulda bought it first). 2) Take short sash, cut across the top of the sash, along the shoulder above the top merit badge row, and cut 1/2" below bottom MB row. 3) If you are a good seamstress, continue. If not, take #1 and #2 to your local dry cleaner. They might even do it for free, "Scouts". 4) Sew the shoulder end from the short one across the shoulder of the long one. The seam won't be as noticable if it is at the top of the sash. Sew along the edges and at the bottom. A neat job will not be noticable except close up. ==OR== 5) Cut the longer sash as appropriate and sew the two pieces together, top and bottom. 6) If you are really adventurous, you can cut the short sash further toward the back and BEHIND the bottom row of MBs so the bottom seam is covered by the badges. YiS Often quicker than transferring all the MBs.

It is difficult to drag the slower boys along with the quicker ones, so you will be tempted to divide your big Web Den along those lines. I would counsel not to. The boys will have their own friends and buddies, and those groups should be kept, and that is the way to divide if that is judged to be the best thing. Encourage the boys to pick a "Den Name" to set them apart. I've seen "C-17" , "Boas", "Rough Rider" Dens. Don't have to be the usual Scout Patrol names. Check with local Troops and the local District OA dance team for memorable crossover ceremonies. But don't be too eager to get the boys out of Cubs, some of your Webs may not be able to earn the AoL by the fabled February B&G . Let them use the rest of the year (with your encouragement and direction) as necesssary. If you can get all of them to C/O together, great. But the AoL is not a requirement to C/O, don't hold them to that requirement. They can C/O at the end of the year, when they are of age and grade, not WHEN they earn AoL. ?More than one C/O? Check with the local Troops in your visiting about summer camp and summer activities. Help the boys and their parents to see the various choices open to them. Keep them active, all the way up to the C/O. They are the "senior scouts" in the Cub Pack, let them bask in that glory alittle. Let the other Cubs see the Webelos' success as their possiblity. Heed Bob the Tomato: "It's for the kids".

I have been of the opinion that Feb. is too early for Webs to crossover. Our local packs/Troops usually arrrange for C/Os in April and May, sometimes at a Pack picnic, when the OA team can do their signature Flaming Arrow ceremony (NOT in the church social hall!). The expected bridging, and handover from CM to SM, they receive their new neckers,hats and handbooks and loops. I know in my home Troop, we have summer activities that seek to involve the new Scouts, and they are invited to attend the summer cqmp, where they invariably earn Scout and/or Tenderfoot. There's always room for some more Scouts at camp! I have never heard of a ustabe Webelos that wasn't eager to get in deep with Boy Scout stuff. Why make it difficult?

The last 1x6's that I bought from HD were labeled in German. Warum?

Old "Hawaii Five - O" episode. Arch enemy Wo Fat captures head cop McGarett, drugs him. When Mcgarett wakes up, he is in a sensory deprivation apparatus, black goggled so he can't see, ear muffed, stretched out and tied out in a wet suit in an 80 degree water tank. Wo Fat's goal (as I remember) was first revenge and second to gain info about undercover police operations. No physical harm, but when rescued by his loyal comrades, McGarett was not his old "book'em Dan-o" self for several episodes. Torture by Gonzolez standards? Or no?

JohninKC: Exactly so.

When I insisted that we listen to "Stainedglass Bluegrass" on the car radio sunday morning on the way to Meeting, my then young daughter would complain of being "tortured". Now a lovely grown married woman, I doubt if she would compare THAT torture with this discussion's topic. As has been said before, morality can't be legislated. Ethical behavior is not necesarily legal. The fault shown by Abu Ghraib and the secret prisons and secret rendition and the present discussion about whether waterboarding (selective drowning) is "ethical" or "legal" by American standards (?only American standards?) has more significance than mere legal argument. When the truth came out about the activities at Abu Ghraib, everyone asked who is at fault? The US guards? Their captains? The CIA interrigators? I believe the fault goes all the way back to the young guard's teachers, Scoutmasters, even parents and clergy (if any). The permission to engage in any activity (waterboarding, bamboo splinters under finger nails) be done in the name of it's goal (information, loyalty sworn, supposed truth be declared) is given both EXTERNALLY ("I was only following orders") and INTERNALLY ("the devil made me do it") and SOCIALLY ("everybody else was doing it"). Somehow, the ability to refuse to follow those EXTERNAL orders and SOCIAL permission must be enfused in the person by our moral example as parents, clergy, teachers and Scout leaders. The courage to "do the right thing" is , I think, not innate in humans. It must be taught and exampled. Torture is, more than not, I think, about revenge. The inability to see the "enemy" as a human such as ourselves, leads to the need to subjegate, dehumanize and punish. Are the Japanese or the Germans still the "yellow peril" or the "devil Hun"? Our perception and depiction of "the Other" is dependant on our personal experience and often the projected needs of our government and business interests. Is this, perhaps, an extreme form of... bullying? The ability to codify, and define what our society will and will not accept in behavior (even in time of war) goes a long way to displaying to others what it is that makes America unique and desirable. It also makes it impossible for other folks to point and say "see??? They did it!! We can do it to them!!!" so that we have no reason to point and say "see?? We need to do it back , just like they did it to us!!" In the mean time, how does the Golden Rule come into this debate? How would we , as Scouts, (at least), if not people of Faith (pick one), react in similar situation? Could we have the courage to say "nope. won't. It's wrong."? Or would we do the dunking?

A "derby" (hat) made out of wood (pine) is suggested to me by your question. Some type of award ceremony, with the "Pinewood Derby" as the prize? A crowning of the CM as the "Speed Racer"? The Cubs would recognize that reference. Anyone out there remember the "Kerwood Derby"?

Wear Scout clothes. Hats Oh... And Money. Bring money.