SSScout

I am familiar with JCorbi's. We've been on both sides of the pizza box here. I've never seen anything but Corbi labels on their packages. Never "XYZ Elementary School Pizza" or "Boy Scout Troop ABC Pizza". It's aways labeled Joe Corbi Pizza. Eagle32, has your Council declared WHY , what has happened to get Corbi declared of limits? Perhaps Corbi is claiming that one can "raise money for your Scout Troop!" Is that too much?

I heard Mazucca's speech. I wonder that he thinks Latino family values are so foreign to BSA ideals that BSA must adjust to accomodate these newly minted citizens. I have been counseled by my Latino friends, especially those of central American origin, that the Hispanic community is often eager to join Scouts, if the boys (and girls!) are first approached by their friends at school, and if the Scouters involved make sure that they are seen as anything but a semi-military group. The tan shirts, the uniforms, the ceremony tho often done with a military bearing, tends to remind of the less than friendly military of their home country. Our uniforms need to be seen as something other than mere authority. What does Scouting stand for? Soccer tourneys for Cubs and summer rec programs should not change the BSA program (whatever it is, see another thread!), but if soccer attracts boys to Scouting, all to the good. Adjust the soccer requirements to accomodate the law, should be no problem. When I was a Cub, We had a CS softball league, the only one in town. Kids joined so they could play ball. As has been noted, Scout leaders need be sensitive to the cultural, and religious differences of our Scouts. Food choice, non-Christian faith, skin hue, mode of dress or hair style, I defy anyone to find a place in the Scout Promise or Law that requires we deny access to Scouting to any boy or family for any of these reasons. Our boys need to be taught by us , in lesson and example, the openness , the acceptance, the opportunity that is endemic to the American Way.

What Hal said. And what ALF said. That said, be aware that you as CC can steer things to a certain extent. Take your given authority seriously. Your COR friend called on you for a reason. Remind him of this as necessary. It's good if you can present the choices to the folks involved so that as much as posssible, everyone will think the idea was theirs. Get your DE and/or UC to arrange Committee member training, in person if possible, but some is available on line http://olc.scouting.org/index.html . The training is labeled "Troop Committee", but it is germane to Cub ScoutPacks, too. And, believe it or not, there are guidebooks available for Committee folk AND the COR. Check with your Council Store. Convince folks of the importance of all agreeing on being trained for best effect. Coffee and donuts. This will help clear up some misunderstanding and give everyone a new place to start from and a common language. Your job is first fence mending, next coordination, not so much excuse making. Assume all the participants want what is best for the Cubs and the Pack and try to ignore the ego problems as much as possible. You can do this. Have faith. "It's for the kids".

Yep. G2SS is quoted in the Pack28 guidelines. At our CSDC, Archery and BBs are allowed for Cubs and the sibs of Cub age, under the same conditions , but the sibs must register as a Cub for the camp. We have cousins "join" for the camp just to get at the archery and BBs, but if the Pack can arrange the Den Walkers to cover, and they register with the Pack as a Cub, we say welcome! But no can do as a Pack only activity. Gotta be at a District or Council sponsored activity with appropriate Range Officers.

You say your Troop is "mostly white". I have never had that sort of problem in my Scout endeavors, but at work... I am caucasian and was a supervisory sort of fella in a mostly black and hispanic shop. I "grew up" in the shop but on occassion, some one I had to discipline would go running to the higher ups to claim the race card with me. My reputation for fairness always preceeded him, tho. Once, however, I had a greivance filed against me for a report I had to make against one of my employees of color. I actually had to call in some other workers to testify in my behalf. What I would suggest is to be scrupulously fair amongst your Scouts. Invite that dad to come and be an ASM. Let him see how your Troop includes everyone. Perhaps he is being overly sensitive and protective of his son. His past history might lead him to that, but you may never know the true dynamics. If the "mostly white" Troop has a dad you know that the other dad might more easily relate to, ask him to speak to the new kid's dad. Has anyone spoken to the Troops' boy leadership? Maybe the new kid just didn't understand how things work. After all, not everybody gets 'elected' to every position they might aspire to, right? Language: Any where else, addressing the Troop as "boys" would be OK. But then you have to remember the term 'boy' might have another connotation here. Maybe referring to everybody as SCOUT would be a better, more appropriate term here? Patience. You'll find your way yet.

Let's see... required reading for the class includes... US Constitution, 2nd Amendment The Weapon Shops of Isher, Van Vogt The Weapon Makers , Van Vogt any good text about the Weimar Republic The Foundation series, Assimov Tao Ta Ching, Laotze Bible, Book of Acts, etal

Webelos is a transitional program. If the Cub and his parents have fully utilized the Cub program, they should be aware of the religious component. If nothing else, the Webelos Leader should help them to be aware. It should not be necessary to "kick out" a Scout. It should only be necessary to remind them of the soon-to-be-promised Scout Promise and the already recited Cub Scout Promise. We are asking the Cub (and his parents?)to seriously consider what his "duty to God" is.This is ,admittedly, not the same for all. As has been said before in these forums, Scouting is (or should be) a self selecting group. We ask the Scout to agree to use the Scout Law and the Scout Promise as the ideals of their life. "A scout is Trustworthy". If he truly agrees with the ideals we promulgate, we are in business. If not, then it might be suggested that he consider resigning. If the boy is of one mind and the parents another, I don't think we have the biggest problem. Is it the duty of the Webelos leader to "kick out" a boy from Scouting? No, I don't think so. Should he insist on everyone being aware of the Scouting ideals? Most certainly. Should he insist on ONE type of Duty to God? No. How can he? There are other worthy youth groups out there that have no religious component.

Just came back from a CPR class. The instructor was a EMT who also does training in backcountry first aid. He suggested first, as has been suggested here, that each Scout carry a small first aid kit of personal stuff, Band Aids ©, gloves, antiseptic. Beyond that, he suggested that the Troop (or Patrol) first consider what kind of things MIGHT happen on the planned trek. He demonstrated a segmented first aid kit, three or four sections, in heavy duty waterproof sealed ziploc © bags.. The idea being that one could SHARE the carrying of all the desired items, in smaller kits, rather than one BIG F/A kit in a big fishing box or war surplus ammo box. One boy carries the CAT scan, one the Xray, one carries the AED kit, one carries the IV infusion machine, you know, like that... Makes it more fair than one ASM carrying the whole hospital. He suggested that most of the stuff in the usual "industrial" F/A kit were not really necessary or even needed in any foreseeable future hike or urban planned camp out. However, if you were going out into the Cascade Range for two weeks, or rafting down the Yough for a week, you might take more stuff. So parcel the stuff out in waterproof bags amongst the Scouts. Remember when we were encouraged to tape a couple of dimes inside the F/A kit? Then quarters?

CubsRg8t: I second np's comment. Also, perhaps some OA officer querying about other activity attendance. Ordeals? Banquets? Ceremony teams? Is attendance at these good? Only so so? How and why do the boys go to those? Link the need to the pride of accomplishment and leading other boys to the ideals the OA professes.

Cubmobiles... The design around here is tricycle. A triangular frame, seat about 2/3s back from the front, two wheels on a solid rear axle, and a big swivel caster on the front. Power by pushing or towing by rope. Cub teams of one or two or even three boys. Foot brakes. Level terrain only, or towed UP HILL, so there is no danger of the toeteam being run over.

Engineer cheer: "E to the x, d y d x, E to the x, d x. Secant, tangent, cosine, sine, 3.14159 Square root, cube root, BTU, Slipstick, slide rule, YEAH PURDUE! "What's a phonograph, daddy?"

Knife and axe and saw use are certainly touchy subjects. When I was first asked to teach "Woodtools" at OLS,I looked up all I could in the "official" literature, and went on the web, and talked to some other folks that I respected. I also thought long about my history as a Scout and my dad who worked as a timber cruiser and at a saw mill. I found that alot of the "safe" technique was not 'codified' and was more 'tradition'. The GSS and its language has been mentioned already. Concerning knife and axe and saw, there is very little instruction in the present Scout handbook and none in the present Fieldbook. Go to earlier Handbooks, you'll find several pages detailing good, safe technique. My Fieldbook from the mid sixties, has nine pages of instruction with photos of Scouts using knife and axe. How to cut down a 12" tree? (from the Fieldbook pg.158) " First Class SCOUTCRAFT Requirement No.3a a. Camp Making - Sharpen an axe and use it for cutting light wood into tent pegs." ""Interpretation:: Sharpen axe (hand axe) with file and stone (pg.159). Tent pegs should be about 8" long, pointed at one end, with a notch approximately one inch from the other end." I have to say that the axe and knife skills I picked up came as much from the books by Eric Sloane ("Diary of an Early American Boy")and his recounting of the use of antique hand tools as I got from my Scout leaders and my father. Then, too, in my previous life, I sometimes think I must have been a lumberjack.... The class I put together included showing and demonstrating several types of hand axes, felling axes, a double bit axe, an axe with broken handle, a two man crosscut saw, a Sven folding saw, a bow saw, wedges and sledge, a wedgemaul, several types of pocket knives, lock backs and 'clasp', kitchen knives, a 'rescue knife' (skindiving), and a wood 'practice' knife. Files, Carborundum oil stone, Arkansas dry stone, diamond hone, "sursharp" tool, a ceramic steel. The hand out was 8 pages, reprints from some websites and official BSA stuff. I found myself not only showing how to use the tools correctly and safely, but also talking about BSA's limitations as to ""official"" practice. Tote'n Chip? Whittlin' Chip? How to instruct? how to test? All tradition. Make a tent peg. How to pass the tool safely, carry it safely, etc. Will it PREVENT accidents? No, only make them LESS likely, as I showed the scar on my left finger from my Scout days. Once upon a time, my bosses in the Bus Transit Service removed all trash cans from our busses. Why? because they tended to attract trash. (goal: keep the busses clean). I feel it is by the same reasoning, there is very little or no mention of axe use in our Scout Handbook or Fieldbook. Telling Scouts how to use an axe in the Handbook tends to encourage their use. When I teach a Scout (Cub or Boy or Adult),personally, how to use a sharp tool, I feel I am passing on a skilled tradition, much like a Master-Apprentice relationship. When the recipient of my training goes forth and uses that skill, or, better yet, teaches another in the arcane use of this obsolete tool, it is the passing of a tradition. Yep, it might sometime save a finger that might otherwise be injured. Or a life. I sometimes think about how my dad or that long aged Patrol Leader taught me. Maybe that Whttlin' Chip Cub will remember learning to fold the knife with an open hand (won't find that in ANY BSA publication) and think of an old fuzzy faced Scouter. And then further on he will teach another son. And another finger will be saved. Oh well..."Respect the edge", ya'll.

nwscouterlee: Welcome to the forummmmmms. Here, you will find ideas, encouragement and, perhaps most importantly, SYMPATHY! Six Cub Scout Day Camps? Must be a large-economy- sized District ? Or perhaps a Council with several smaller Districts? I have to ask, why are you considering several seperate themes? Why not one theme thruout all the camps? I always favor the economy of size in such things. Our Council coordinates CSDCs for several Districts. The Powers That Be use PODS, a private company that shuttles a portable storage unit between the sequentially scheduled camps. The POD carries the archery gear, craft tools, sports material, water jugs, etc. The "consumables" (tape, arrows, beads, craft stuff) are replenished between camps. Since the themes are the same, we can get the same type of hats, and Tshirts and such. A few years ago, the theme was Wild, wild West. Each District interprets the theme as they will, we did the Lewis and Clark Expedition. Nature Pavilion did Flora and Fauna, discovery notebook keeping. As the week went by, we recounted the expedition in staff skits, monday was the outfitting, til friday was reaching the Pacific (water carnival). Don't tell the Cubs, but they might have learned some history along the way. We found a trick roper who did a lunch "special" , a riding club came by to show the horses, Crafts paviion made "salboat barges". Shortridge has some good ideas for you. Get your core group together and sit down over some pizza and brainstorm. Lots of neat possibilities out there. But seriously consider ONE theme for ALL camps over each week. Talk it up every chance you can, at the Roundtables, at Unit meetings, over the web pages...Collect your staff as early as possible. Search these forums and other Scout pages for lots of good ideas. Good Luck! Kis MiF YiS

In my last year as a CM, I had 3 webs cross over, and about another 6 Cubs graduate, but not join Scouts ('nother thread). At the final Pack meeting (a picnic), I presented each boy with a Scout ooin and shook their hand and wished them well. Then, the AoL Cubs got their awards and a plaque I and the Web DL had made. It was a 6" 'cookie' from a cherry tree I had to cut down, wood burned with their name and date and Pack #, and a large AoL patch glued on, and a fletch end of an arrow stuck in at a acute angle. Then, the 'Bridging' Cubs were accosted by the District OA team, who led them to their Scout Troops across the bridge, all with appropriate who-hah.

From 'Scouting in New South Wales' October 1980: The nine year old daughter of a Cub leader was asked by her teacher to prepare a composition answering the question: "What did you do last weekend?" Her response: "Nothing! My mum went away for the weekend with Mr. Haylen ((her mother's group leader)). Daddy didn't mind because he knows him. Mum also went away with thirty other men and says that if she doesn't do these two weekends, all her others will be a waste of time. "We are packing our bags and going to grandma's place next weekend. If mum passes her tests after her weekends, she will be able to wear a bootlace and two bits of wood around her neck". ==As quoted in "The Best of the Leader Cut-Out Pages" from the Scouts Canada National Office.

Getcha bumper sticker hea... "WILL WORK FOR COLORFUL SCRAPS OF CLOTH"

Aye, well said. Twill be much copied, methinks, and needs be. Thank you, friend.

Twocubdad: You won't find any "published" policy about this issue. The awards are declared and issued by BSA, but the means of presentation are left to the unit. My Scout Troop has a notebook of almost a hundred different Court of Honor ceremonies. It is the same for a Cub Pack. Ceremonies are generally traditional and left to the creativity of the unit. "We've always done it that way". But there will be similar themes. Nothing wrong with that, I've seen some ceremonies that left alot to be desired, and alot that were very memorable. But it still should be remembered, even if you can successfully combine the three ceremonial functions (AoL, Cub graduation, Crossover ), they are still three seperate things. A Cub can earn the AoL and not 'Bridge' (or Crossover, or join) to a Scout Troop. In any event, the Cub will be graduating from his Pack. The three should not necesarily be the same. Evori: Succinctly said. SMT224: Exactly so. How important will it be to the Cubs actually JOINING a Troop, making that commitment, if some other Cub, without the same commitment, is allowed the same ceremony? CNYScouter knows what should be done.

Liz: You are missing the point. AoL and Graduating From Cubs and Bridging Over to Boy Scouts are three entirely seperate things. B/CO is NOT part of the AoL. A Cub can earn AoL and not join a Scout Troop. If the Cub does not choose to join a Scout Troop, he should not participate in the Bridging. Give him the ceremony he deserves, but not one that is not appropriate. The Cub can be recognized and celebrated for his accomplishment but should really not be part of a ceremony that is not his. That is why AoL presentation should be held seperate from the Bridging ceremony and if the Cub does not join a Scout Troop, his Graduating from Cubs can be acknowledged seperately with appropiate seriousness.(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"And now for something completely different..." Never hurts to suggest someplace new. A Troop planned trip to Boston,USS Constitution, history, etc. Check out the Canadian Jamboree www.ccjam09.com They will easily welcome US Scouts to visit or stay the week... Just a couple of ideas that needn't remind them of ScoutCamp...

Well, hey,isn't that what we all are saying? Presenting the AoL is one thing. Cub graduation is another... Register with the Troop, pay the dues, and do the Bridging. Should be three seperate things, n'est pas ?

SR540beaver nudged my memory with his last post... Is it a good thing to get the Scouter to reconnect with his/her childhood? Remembering what it was like? Is it possible that some of our successes are based on (in one case) remembering what worked with us OR (in another case) overcoming what didn't work with us? Is the really good Scouter (RGS) one who remembers (or corrects?) their past? What does that say about the oft-mentioned-in-these-forums 'problem Scouter' (PS?)? Too many questions?

Can you not encourage the DC to earn the religious award for his own faith?

I'll add my vote: The AoL is an important Cub award. It's presentation should be seperate and distinct and as ceremonial (if not more so) as any other Cub award. Do them collectively at the B&G if possible, otherwise at another Pack Meeting. I have often seen the CM include something personal ( Scout coin, a small custom made arrow or plaque) to the Cub along with the AoL patch and Scout strip. If the boy (I suppose the parents do have a part in making this decision?) decided to join Boy Scouts, then a "Bridging" ceremony is held to pass the boy from the Cub Pack to the Scout Troop. There definitely needs to be a Scout presence (SM, ASM, OA team?) to solemnify the occasion and make it "official". If the boy did NOT choose to continue onto Boy Scouts, then he does not participate. He sits and watches his friends solemnify THEIR choice. The purpose of the "Bridging" does NOT symbolize graduating from Cub Scouts. That is a seperate issue. I have known Packs that hold a seperate "Cub Graduation" ceremony. That might be appropriate here, but not a "Bridging" as if all of the Cubs are becoming full fledged Boy Scouts. Arrow of Light equals Cub Scouting's highest rank. Cub Graduation equals aging out, having accomplished all one can do in Cub Scouting. Bridging equals Cub Scouts joining Boy Scouts . That's as I see it. Them's the cherces. Pays yer money.

Welcome to the electronic crackerbarrel (low fat). We have a few forumites here in Murlen. We have heard from a couple here in Mungumry and in Fredrik and Balmer counties. I'm sure if you ask around you'll find some active Packs in, ooh, I'll guess you're in PG county? After you make the acquaintence of your Pack membership and leadership seek out your District Executive. He can help you keep busy ;-).