SR540Beaver

Go to the www.praypub.org website. This is the organization that handles the BSA religious awards. It is separate and independent from the BSA. BSA just recognizes their awards. Many other organizations utilize this program including GSA. The awards and requirements should be identical to what Cub/Boy Scouts do as it is PrayPub's program, not BSA's.

Twocub, I think your observations ring pretty true all over, not just locally. While I have no doubt some Baptist churches sponsor scouts, they are more the exception than the rule. I should have mentioned Royal Ambassadors, but figured the majority of non-Baptists would not know what they are. I don't think scouting would detract from RA's as RA's can't even begin to hold a candle to scouting. Nothing against the RA program....I was a scout and an RA as is my son now. They are not comparable and I don't see how they could detract from one another.

Since we are discussing CO's, let me throw out a question I have. I have been Southern Baptist all of my life and even graduated with a degree in Religion from a Baptist University. If anyone should be able to answer this, it should be me, but I can't. Does anyone know of any Southern Baptist churches that serve as CO's? I know that Methodist, Catholic and LDS churches are very active as BSA CO's. I don't know of or remember ever seeing a Troop out of a SB church. Southern Baptist churches are autonomously run and have no hiarchial council over them. They tend to prefer their own programs over outside programs. That is the only reasoning I can personally think of as to why they are not active in BSA. Does anyone else have a perspective on this? I will say that there are many Baptists in scouting. When I was a youth at my church, there were a number of men who were in adult leadership positions and about 5 of my friends who earned their Eagle.

Boy Scouts. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the boys age trumps his school grade. We have a Webelos who was set back a year in school and even though he is repeating 3rd grade, he is in the Webelos den with the 4th grade boys his same age. I would think that he would enjoy being with boys his age more so than boys a year or two younger. Plus, Boy Scouts would give him more structure and a chance to mature than Cub Scouts would.

Sctmom, You asked what selling candybars has to do with playing baseball? The same exact thing that selling popcorn has to do with scouting. My son played baseball for 4 years before deciding to take a break and try out some other activities. Having been a team manager, I can tell you that there are a lot of costs involved in even a little league team just like there are in scouts. There are league fees, tournament fees, equipment to buy and replace, uniforms, hopefully a pizza party or cookout or two during the season, etc. Every team at every game is required to have a new game ball to hand to the ump prior to the game starting. Balls are not cheap. Some leagues require that the teams pay the umps at each game. Fundraising for sports is no different than for scouts. You want to play, you have to pay. It gives the boys a lesson in paying their own way and in taking responsibility for their team's well being. It allows them to take some ownership of their chosen activity. It gives them pride in doing a task. Sports can teach a kid many of the same things that scouting can. Team work, leadership, strategy, responsibility, character, good sportsmanship, practicing hard at a task in order to accomplish the task when it counts, discipline, etc. The list goes on. Many kids involved in sports are the same kinds of kids involved in scouting. Some can afford anything at a drop of a hat and others have to raise the funds in order to participate. Don't short change the sports team fundraisers, they are trying to accomplish many of the same goals of scouting, just thru a different method. Both are worthy of donations.

foto, I hear what you say and understand it to some degree. I don't totally agree with everything though. My son is a 10 year old Webelos 1 who just joined last September. We have about a year left until his crossover. My son has always been mature for his age and pretty intelligent. While I can see the same thing in our den that you describe of boys not really able to make a mature informed decisions, I think it is the job of a parent to help them see the differences. I talk frequently with my son about what to expect in Boy Scouts. I explain the patrol method and boy led and having to do all the work themseleves. While he is still a 10 year old and will still most likely want to make a choice based on following his friends or having fun, I'm trying to educate him on what makes a good scout program that will ultimately give him the best experience and fun. I've learned my lesson the hard way. We walked into our pack sight unseen. While I have eased into it somewhat, I find it pretty unorganized. Don't get me wrong, the leadership are nice people and I appreciate their willingness to volunteer. But we seem to be pretty relaxed and not in control of meetings. Sometimes I feel we spend more time making sure the boys are having fun at the expense of teaching them how to apply the scout oath and law in their lives. I've had people remind me that our motto is to "Do Your Best" and it is OK if they don't fulfill a requirement satisfactorily for an activity pin. If it says do 10 sit-ups and the kid pops his head up and down 8 times, some feel he tried his best and passes. There have been times that I felt I had wasted an hour out of my evening bringing my son to a "free for all" den meeting. But hey! At least he had fun! I do want him to have fun when he moves to Boy Scouts. I intend to be by his side having fun too. But he can have fun hanging out with his buddies in the neighborhood too. I want him in a well run troop that will instill scouting values while having that fun. I will let him decide what troop he wants to go to, but It will be with my parental guidance and experience assisting him.

Ed, Yes, until they take a detour thru the woods. Last weekend we took our Webelos to Camporee with a Troop. All of the competitions were centered in a main part of the camp and all within eye sight of each other, with 100's of scouts and leaders around. While the Patrol Leader was leading the patrol (including the Webelos assigned to their patrol) we were required to have two adults along with them.

Not to muddy the waters, but.....What about Youth Protection. Is camp going to allow an adult other than the parent to tag along individually with a scout? We require 2 deep leadership, don't we. Can the parent give authority for this stranger to spend all this time with their son(s) and will BSA accept it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't 19 year old Darrell Lambert an ASM and was at adult leadership training when he outted himself as an Atheist? That is 2 years shy of 21.

It probably isn't the best skit to do. But we do tend to be very PC at times. Our Cubs have a song they know called "Mom Washed My Underwear" that they were stopped from singing at a campfire because....."it might offend someone". It isn't dirty in the least and is a cute and funny song. Some just felt that the mention of "underwear" (OH MY) could be offensive to some people. As a result, you see the same old skits and songs that have been done for decades over and over and over and over at the campfire. Ever notice how many groans and how little laughter there is with the same old tired skit performed for the 1,385th time. But at least they are acceptable skits! Calling all skit writers, we need new material!

Eamonn, I think there is a difference. We don't give door prizes at Blue & Gold. But if a CM or other trained and uniformed leader and/or boys go to a business and ask for a donation, I don't see a problem with that. The business man knows who and what he is donating to and that it is a worthy organization and cause and free advertising for him. A win-win situation for the pack and the business. Begging money on E-Bay sight unseen is a totally different story. There is no way for you to verify that this isn't some 58 year old bum sitting at a terminal in his underwear, drinking beer and trying to dupe people into giving him money with a convincing sounding story.

foto, Thanks for the update. As the ASM said, they allow parents with guidance.....but I think that is what the rest of the leadership does. I think that deep down, the SM does not want parents along and only tolerates it because he has to. I don't think it is just poor presentation or choice of wording. Your boys and their parents made a wise decision in choosing the other troop. The ASM and other leadership needs to confront this problem before they die out for lack of new scouts.

I'm not sure what to think about this. There are some parents who refuse to assist with or allow their kids to do fundraising because they see it as too much of a hassle. We had parents on my son's baseball team who flatly refused to do fundraisers and instead would ask how much to write a check for. I don't think asking for money on E-bay is a good way for this kid to go....if it is legit. One of the problems with fundraisers is that the number of events goes up with each thing your child is involved in. If they play sports, go to school and are in scouts, they will be doing at least 3 fundraisers a year, sometimes more. Friends and relatives get tapped out and some even start to avoid you. Our scout popcorn fundraiser came immediately on the heels of my son's school fundraiser. We were not about to ask the same people to fork over more cash after buying items at inflated prices. Fortunately, he was able to go around the neighborhood and sell almost $300 in popcorn. Of course, we ended up buying some ourselves and buying the popcorn of the people who never seemed to be home or return our calls after ordering. We do the fundraisers because it teaches our son some good lessons and values. But we arefinacially able to pay for his activities and their are times that I would like to just write a check and be done with it myself. I realize that not everyone can do that though.

DS, Perhaps you should wait until the next roundtable and in a polite manner explain that you heard he had concerns about the female leadership at summer camp. Ask him for specific problems and how they relate to the women being in leadership. Let him hang himself. If he is just a "Taliban" type who thinks women are property and should be totally submissive to men, he has no case as BSA allows and encourages female leadership. Without it, I doubt if Cubs would have lasted for long. If he can't site a valid reason as to how women are poor leaders, then all he is spouting is his own personal opinion and bias. He will show his own colors and will be respected accordingly. My guess is all of the women in attendance and 99% percent of the men in attendance will walk away thinking what a jerk this guy is. If he does not like the program, then perhaps he should find a different program. The way you approach the subject and support it with policy and the way he responds with his own personal opinions will sink him and make his argument invalid.

ASM1, You sent me on a search to see where I ever questioned your patriotic loyalty. Couldn't find it, anywhere. I did question your judgement and opinions for using questionable and unreputable sources such as neo-Nazi websites to support you views. You can cross reference all you want....but just because it is on the internet or in print does not mean it is correct, true or from a reputable source. Cross referencing junk just gives you cross referenced junk. It doesn't make it truth. I also searched for any reference of me claiming that you are in "non-compliance" with the Constitution. Couldn't find it, anywhere. Not sure where that came from. I also searched to see where I mentioned anything about your spelling. Couldn't find it, anywhere. Your reference to France's sword of diplomacy and winning it all, I have no idea what you are talking about. I was out from early Friday until late last night for Camporee. I've searched the internet this morning and don't see anything about a French victory of any kind at the UN. Just a story about Villipen flying to Africa to try and get swing votes to support them. All other stories pretty much say it is full steam ahead, with or without the UN's blessing. Don't hold your breath waiting for that impeachment, OK? You might turn blue.

I've read pro and con on Webelos and Camporees here in the forum and most say it isn't supposed to happen. Heard lots of people say they've done it though. None the less, we were invited and we are going. I think the main problem has been Webelos competing against Boy Scouts and the safety, skill and ability factors involved. I've heard some say it is OK if you provide separate activities for the Webelos. I don't know the agenda for this Camporee. We'll see. We have a Webelos 1 den of about 13 or 14 and 8 or 9 of those never miss a chance to camp and are looking foward to crossing over in a year. I think this Camporee will have a big impact on enhancing those desires.

Ed, You got your wish in my neck of the woods. Our Webelos 1 and 2's are going to Camporee with different troops this weekend.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the AOL is the only thing you can transfer from Cub to Boy Scout uniform. Possibly the religious emblem pin, but it isn't really BSA, just recognized by BSA.

SK, Is Rumsfeld blowing smoke or serious? U.S. Considers Withdrawing Troops from South Korea http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=2338622

Ed, TOO COOL!!! Our prayers remain with Mike and his family.

Zionist propaganda? Fact....you posted material that you agree with from a white supremist web site called whitesruggle. Show me where you can point to my copying zionist information and passing it off as fact or truth? When I called you on the junk you use for information, you reduce your argument to a childish nanny nanny boo boo comeback by calling me a zionist. You really DO need to increase your doasge and quit reading the tabloid conspiracy journals.

ASM1, As usual, you get it wrong. The US is not demanding that Iraq disarm before we wage war. The US is demanding that Iraq disarm or we will wage war. Huge difference. The troops and armor threat is there as an incentive to get them to disarm to avoid a war. BTW, when are you going to respond about using neo-Nazi propaganda sites to support your views?(This message has been edited by kwc57)

Requirements. He has to do the requirements. Only the requirements. If he does the requirements and passes them, you can't hold him back. The SM is making a personal judgement and that is adding to the requirements which is against BSA policy.

Whether I agree with it or not, I can't fault France, Germany or Russia. Why? Because they are doing the exact same thing that the US is doing......looking out for their own national interests. That fact seems to be lost on most people. They get upset that those countries are not backing the US. But the US backs who it chooses to back, when it chooses to back them. We refuse to take part in UN forces unless WE get to command them. We do not want to be under the control and power of any other nation or be beholden to them. And rightly so! We can not expect less from them or be disrespectful of their rights that we hold so dear for ourselves without being hypocrites in the process. If you go back and read some of the writings of our founding fathers, you will find that they were highly opposed to forming coalitions or alliances except for a very short-term when our interests and another nation's interests intersected. The US needs to make a decision of whether it wants to be part of something like the UN or not. If we want to be totally sovereign, than we need to excuse ourselves and quit worrying about what the world wants or thinks of us. There may be a price to pay for doing so, but there may be benefits as well. Yes, France, Germany and Russia have heavily invested in Iraq in the past and it is against their interest to support a war there. It is the same reason that we don't take Saudi Arabia to task for producing radical Islamic terrorists. We have too much invested there to do that. The European countries are simply exercising the same rights as the US in deciding who to befriend and who to call an enemy. When our interests are in common, we will be allies again.

My son is a 4th grader who just joined as a Webelos this past September. He wears the tan shirt. He got his Bobcat and we personally opted not to sew it on his shirt and waited until he earned his Webelos badge. Personally, I think you should go with the insignias that go with the blue shirt and the insignias that go with the tan shirt and not mix the two. It looks tacky to me. I was a Cub in the mid-60's and yes, the Bobcat rank was a pin that you wore on your uniform. There was no badge.