SR540Beaver

le Voyageur, I believe the answer to your question is that you evidently were raised in the backcountry and the vast majority of scouts are not. If a kid's dad is a pilot, chances are the kid knows quite a bit about flying by the time he is 10. I would come closer to being comfortable with him taking the controls of his dad's plane than I would a kid who has only seen planes flying over head. Long term exposure to an environment and experience are the difference. While you wandered the backcountry with a rifle at 10, would you take any 10 year old off the street and send him off into the woods?

Go to the top of your page and click on NetRoster or just click this http://www.scouter.com/net_roster/default.asp. You'll have to do a little work, but it is all there.

NJ, You are correct that the Roy Moore case has not been before the SCOTUS. But Hannity did call him in to discuss how the rulings came down since they are of the same "ilk" and he knew he could get the answers he wanted. The main argument I keep hearing on talk radio and the opinion shows is that our founding fathers set up our legal system based on the ten commandments. But lets actually look at the commandments. 1 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 3 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 4 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 5 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 6 13Thou shalt not kill. 7 14Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8 15Thou shalt not steal. 9 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 10 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. The first four commandments govern the relationship between God and humans. The next four commandments govern public relationships between people. The last two commandments govern private thoughts. Only the commandments concerning killing, adultry and stealing deal with actual criminal laws. That is 3 out of 10. It is kind of a stretch to say that our legal system is based on the 10 commandments and therefore justifies placing them in government buildings as a reminder of where our laws came from. Again, I'm a born again, evangelical Christian and it doesn't bother me one iota to see the 10 commandments posted anywhere. I try to live my life by these as well as the rest of scripture. But not everyone else believes what I beleive and I honestly don't think our founding fathers intent was to build a "Christian" nation. Their intent was to build a nation of freedom for everyone based on the rule of law without pressuring influences from things outside of the law.

Barry, I'm 48 and my mom is 75. Guess what? She still worries about me, my 2 brothers and my sister. Add to that 5 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and I'm surprised she can still function! I think she said something about prayer like you did. Hang in there. I'll keep Kyle and his crew in my prayers.

JD, Thank you for the job you are doing. I frequent a political forum that can get extremely ugly by comparison to anything seen here. While people ought to be able to argue an issue on its merits instead of taking swipes at each other, they often can't resist the urge. It really doesn't have a place on a scouting forum. Again, thank you for helping keep the message intact while editing out the personal stuff. In addition to frequenting a political forum, I listen to a fair amount of talk radio. Obviously, I listen to conservative talk since liberal talk is non-existent. It seems you can only get one flavor. This SCOTUS decision has been one of the topics of discussion the past day or so. I heard Judge Roy Moore on Hannity's radio show. This came to my mind. I've seen Roy Moore numerous times on all of the "news" programs and radio shows. There is no doubt where he stands as far as his faith is concerned. It is rather obvious that his intent and purpose was to introduce religion into his court. I kind of look at it this way. People can order custom checks with their favorite sports team, a NASCAR driver, horses, dogs, crosses, scriptures, etc. They do that as a testimony to something they consider important to them. When a judge commissions a huge slab of marble carved into the 10 commandments and puts it front and center at the entrance to the court, he is making a testimony to his beliefs and how his court is run. As a Christian, I can relate and understand his desire to do so. But as an American, I want my nation to be a nation of laws and for justice to be blind. I want everyone to feel the same way. I want everyone treated the same way. That a judge holds the 10 C's near and dear to his heart is fine by me. That he tries to make it officially recognized in a government function is not.

Here is an update on my question about counting our 6 mile hike with daypacks (including trail lunch) counting for the requirement of "backpack for at least four miles" in the Camping MB. My son asked the SM last night at the troop meeting if it counted. Surprisingly (based on the answers given here), he said yes. In addition to being the SM, he is the district training chair, a WB staffer, an Eagle Scout and is usually pretty strict in his interpretations of any and all requirements. Go figure.

Pack, As you can see by the name I use for you, I don't stand on formality. Just call me Beav like other folks here do.

hacimsaalk12, This isn't meant to be offensive, so please don't take it that way. The site is called scouter.com. The vast majority of people posting here are scouters and not scouts. Obviously, scouts are welcome and a few post. In fact, we scouters do like to hear their views in these threads. For all I know, there could be thousands of scouts who read the forums, but choose not to post. I don't know. But you are probably going to get 99 to 1 scouter to scout posts here. Encourage your fellow scouts to post. We'd love to hear from them.

Packsaddle: "I would be happy if there was a summer camp ban on coffee AND soft drinks along with all tobacco products. And it should be applicable to the boys AND to the adults. Just call me a happy guy...happy, happy, joy, joy..." Welcome scouts and scouters to Severe Depression Scout Reservation, we hope you enjoy your stay with us! We regret to inform you that the Mutiny merit badge class filled up early and we are going to have to find a substitute class for many of you.

NJ: "So I guess we are just left to speculate and conjecture with few if any facts at hand and no way to tell whether what we are saying has any basis in reality. (One might say this is a specialty of this forum.)" Sometimes you got to go with what your given. Seriously, it appears that many (not all) of the deaths or lost scouts seem to be LDS scouts. I have my doubts that there is some sort of conspiracy of the media to only highlight LDS scout deaths over all other scouts. Since the BSA doesn't provide numbers that I'm aware of, speculation is about all you can do. Heck, without speculation.....what would we do around the campfire late at night.

Wired if they DON'T have coffee? Most people keep kids away from coffee so they WON'T get wired.

CNY, http://www.redrockstore.com/ponderings/sellgrumman.htm

Juris, District staff does not train units. Camporee staff can't tell you what to do. If the unit wants to pull up stakes and head for the house at any point of an outing, they are free to do so.

Rick, Thanks for the insight! Don't feel like a traitor. In my mind, a traitor would be someone who recognizes a problem and turns a blind eye to it. The person who recognizes the problem and is willing to face it and deal with it is to be respected. I can certainly attest to the fact that I put much more into something I personally volunteer for over something I'm volunteered by others to do.

Acco, We are not just talking about a scout complaining about another scout here. We are talking about a boy who enjoys scouting and wants to get something out of it having a PL who is ruining the experience for the whole patrol. The PL is part of the leadership and he isn't holding up his end of the bargain. I'd say the first thing the scout should do is privately discuss his concerns with the PL himself. If he gets blown off or the problem just continues, he can take it to the SPL. Ultimately, he can take his concerns to the SM. In part, an SM conference is a means for the SM to determine what a boy is getting out of scouting. If he is getting very little of anything but frustration because he has an apathetic PL, he needs to say so to the SM. The SM is ultimately responsible for leadership training and overseeing the program. If he is going to lose scouts over a problem, he needs to be made aware and take steps to rectify the problem. Actually, if he is paying any attention, it should not take a boy coming to him to find out about the problem. He should have already recognized it. meamemg, I'd think the first thing the SM should do is approach his SPL and have him counsel the PL and see if there is a problem or anything he can help with. Maybe the boy has had little training. Maybe he gets little support. Maybe the problem is the SPL is not doing his job. Again, the SM SHOULD already be aware of what is going on in the boy leadership and having a boy have to come directly to him and complain shouldn't even have to happen. The variables are just too great to give a single pat answer when you take individuals, training, age, experience, etc. into consideration.

The thought had crossed my mind, but since I am not LDS, I felt it would be rather non-PC to say anything. Let me raise a couple of questions about how LDS units operate since I am totally ignorant about the differences. If I recall correctly, I believe that LDS Webelos is a two year program instead of one and a half years. Also, I believe that camping is discouraged for boys under the LDS Boy Scout age. That would mean that LDS boy scouts are starting with virtually no experience. I believe that they don't camp on Sundays and return home on Saturday evenings. Unless they can skip school on Fridays and the adults can get off work, that means they are only camping about half the time regular scouts do. The part of the country that many of the LDS units are in has some wonderful but dangerous wilderness. Could it be that the boys just don't have the experience needed to be doing the kind of camping and activities they are doing? Again, my "understanding" of LDS units is squat, so take my questions for what they are worth. Are they trying to do too much, too fast, too early?

I'd tell the boys that they didn't miss much. I've had plenty of HOT coffee at scout camp.....but never very GOOD coffee.

meamemg, Any scout can request an SM conference at any time. An SM conference is not just for advancement. The SM can hold one when he feels something needs to be addressed. Likewise, the scout can request one when he feels something needs to be addressed. He needs to make his concerns known. That being said, does your troop not plan its outings far in advance? Many troops do an annual plan. Our troop does planning on a six month basis. The boys decide where they want to go and what they want to do. The adults along with the PLC set the calendar based on the council, district and school(s) calendar and our availibilty. It is published on our website and a paper copy of dates and activities is distributed to every boy and parent. I find it amazing that a whole patrol missed out on going to camporee because they didn't know it was happening. If so, there is a larger problem than just with the PL.

I always thought the FBI warning said, "Don't get caught!" Trev, We used to have 4 drive-in theatres within 10 miles of my house in Oklahoma City. Only one is still in operation.

KS, In the best Elvis voice I can muster, "Well thank you....thank you very much."

I just took my son yesterday and took care of his ID. Been planning on doing it for at least six months and decided time was getting short. The state of Oklahoma now issues a state ID card very similar to the drivers license. You have to submit two pieces of identification such as Social Security card and a certified birth certificate. They photograph and fingerprint you. The DL is a landscape orientation while the ID is a portrait orientation. I believe the DL is blue and the ID is red. They now use a digital camera and the picture is actually printed directly to the plastic instead of laminating a picture pasted to a piece of paper. It cost $10 and has a 4 year expiration on it. It carries all of the same info as a DL with address, weight, height, eye and hair color. We are having one final Jambo troop meeting this weekend and are requiring all scouts to bring their uniforms with patches sewn on and photo ID's. We don't want surprises when we get to the airport or to the Jambo.

Rooster, Condemn or protest? I love this country and I love and respect the flag. I always put a new flag on my WWII USMC veteran dad's grave several times a year. I even fly the flag from a 16 ft flag pole in my front yard. It even has a spotlight so I can fly it 24/7. As much as I love the flag and what it stands for, if the government tries to kick me out of my house and off my land so a hotel chain can build a hotel as the (Republican nominated) supreme court ruled yesterday, I might be moved to protest my government at that point. The constitution gives me the right to make my feelings known. While burning the flag to voice my opinion is an option, I can never imagine myself doing it. But I have the right to do it and I don't want the government infringing even further on my rights by telling me I can't. My protest would be against the government, not the people of the US. Again, this is for political posturing. It is a PR opportunity. How often do you see US flags ablaze in your community? Here in Oklahoma I see illegal aliens every single day. I want my representatives taking care of the important pressing problems of the day. Things like national security. Not photo ops.

E, My wife keeps asking me if we are going to Jamboree for 15 days or taking a 6 month cruise around the world every time I hand her another receipt. It has gotten rather pricey. Our contingent cost is $1900 which includes airfare and 5 days of touring. Add to that 3 uniforms plus various and sundry other items X two and you start to realize just how hard it hits the old pocketbook. I saw a lot of things in the catalog I wanted, but forced myself to resist. All I bought was the big Jambo patch to put on the back of my jac-shirt and a set of region and subcamp patches for shadow boxes I hope to put together for my son and I. I bought complete sets of our three troops CSP, unit number and OA patches to go in it along with a Jambo patch from our shirts. Oh, I also bought the wide brim Jambo hat so I'll look extra spiffy when we meet at Jambo.

This proposed amendment is indeed a slippery slope. It does not address burning. It addresses desecration. That can be interpreted in a very broad way. Cutting, tearing, wearing, spitting on, walking on, etc. It is purely for political posturing. It is an attempt to once again remind everyone who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. It is really surprising to me that the party who stands for less government is the one that keeps bringing up all of these hot point amendment proposals. Remember all the talk about a marriage amendment. Voting for this gives the congressman bragging rights about how patriotic and caring the are and how evil and treasonous their counterparts are. Thes kind of things are easy to vote for and you get to look good for doing it. Hows about we tackle things like open borders and national security instead? We have just had the supreme court declare that you can have your land taken out from under you so commercial interests can build there. First the Patriot Act, now having your property siezed and next the government taking away your freedom of expression. Is this really the government and nation we want? Not me.

E, I'm not sure what you are speaking of. I post at scoutingforums.org occasionally under this same name.