skeptic

Once more we get to definitions of bullying and emotional abuse. What appears to be considered bullying today was not even close when I was a scout. What is considered emotional abuse is often nothing more than telling the truth about something and confronting an individual. To often today we seem to think that we are not supposed to correct or fail a scout because it might "hurt their feelings". Am not saying that is the case here, because we simply DO NOT really know. Basement: I understand your distaste in general for everything beyond your own unit pretty much; but you really need to tone it down. Not all professionals are the way yours appear to be based on your reports. Many more ARE concerned about the youth in the program and work very hard to coordinate those needs with their jobs. Just my own opinion of course, but after 40+ years I have seen far more professionals on the good side of the coin than on the bad side; though the few I have seen on the bad side were really bad. Thanks for your work with your unit though.

While there surely should be camperships made available, the pool is a critical element in most camps. It may have been necessary to do the update due to health and safety issues if it is old. Much of the pool system is not visible to most, but they can become very inefficient and costly as they get old, especially if they break underground. Also, sometimes there are donors that specify money for a particular item. Any number of reasons. However, I am not in your council, so do not see what you apparently see. I do know that a spread sheet for camp costs, including salaries for staff, food, utilities, store supplies, and so on are available in our council with a bit of digging. The money spent has not met the income for over a decade. But we still have camperships, money specifically donated for that purpose. Always room for improvements, even in the best run councils and camps.

Yes! Should an effort be made to support smaller camps might be the better question for me. Many smaller camps have great facilities, or once were really viable. But, for many reasons, mostly population shifts and financial support mechanisms, struggle to survive against the mega camps in the general area. Personally, I feel National really needs to find a way to assure these smaller camps can survive, as they serve an important role, even if it is to a smaller group of users. Our own camp has been rediscovered by a lot of L.A. area troops; we are closer, and have a decent program. Yet we were down to 2 weeks last year, and are at 3 this year with fingers crossed. The Webeloe program also has 3 shortened weeks. But, we also have a lot of facility deferred items that could eventually lead to inability to function within current laws. We are fortunate that we have been able so far to NOT lose the oldest buildings, and a donation allowed one of the 2 to be refurbished and updated, while keeping the historic shell. Lot of positive possibilities, but still a struggle.

As annoying as things sometimes get in our council and district, I guess, overall, we are better off than I realized, though we have had our "real" nightmares. Some of the stories on here are amazing to me, and I cannot help but wonder why it is allowed to continue over time. Currently, I pretty much just feel badly for the lower execs, as they are understaffed in the council by one or two, and have been for a number of years. Ours tries very hard to work with his volunteers, and even the ASE eventually works with us when he "finally" gets to it. Of course he not only does the job for which he was hired, he has to help fill in for the missing positions in the council. Work at the unit level, and try to make sure you are delivering a good program. Support the other areas in a manner in which you are comfortable; if that is no where, then that is your choice. We must be sort of in between. And long ago decided to refuse to discuss any of the PC stuff with anyone outside the program, especially if I was in uniform at a troop function. We do not need the kids being exposed to these things anymore than necessary; and it has very little to do with them directly.

Just take it in to your local shop; they guarantee them.

Same article made it to our local paper. But, they still have not found room to post my troop's 90th anniversary info. Told them the reporter assigned to interview should know I refuse to talk about political issues in the interview. Have not heard a word since?

"Topping the lists of Rhodes Scholarships are the numbers of scouts thereon. This year, revived after a ten year lapse, the list of 32 scholars includes 23 who have been Boy Scouts, or 67% of the total. In fifteen years (1926-39 and 1949), Scouts have captured an average of 66% of the scholarships. Best year was 1927, when 24 of 32 were Scouts, 75% of the total." Wonder how more current candidates might turn out. Would be interesting to know in comparison. Of course, way back then, there were no NESA scholarships or related types, and only a very few of any kind specifically for Scouts. The Harmon scholarships only lasted 3 or 4 years. Do know that most of the scouts becoming Eagle in our district are honor students, and we have had a number that were top of their class, or the top 1%.

Just for information, in case there is someone on these boards from our troop's past, Troop 102 of Ventura, Ca. is having its 90th anniversary gathering on February 12th. See Troop 102, Ventura on Facebook for details.

Okay, now that I have had an opportunity to peruse the book, it is time to comment. While certainly a broad coverage of the huge variation of material, books, and so on, it does not seem to have had a lot of serious thought put into it regarding photos and so on. I find it difficult to understand why there is NO mention of SCOUTING MAGAZINE for instance. A number of pages are dedicated to gum cards and related items, but barely anything to the Service Library with their hugely colorful and art deco like covers. They mention EBL, yet do not show any of the actual covers or jackets; there were three types and myriad dj designs. Why do they not show a sample of the earliest meritbadge books? Where is the connection between scouting and advertising? The use of the scouting images in the first decades for ads was common, and some of the ads are dramatic. The stamp section is very limited, and does not draw on the best examples, in my opinion. Of course, we have already discussed making GBB a footnote at best. Likely are many other areas that could have been better represented, such as music or belt buckles, of whatever. So, while interesting, and has some great photos; I rate it mediocre at best. Of course, maybe if I had not collected for so long I might think differently.

In regard to Scout Stuff, the book just out. Got it with an Amazon gift cert, and went through it a bit. There may be a photo of Green Bar Bill in the section on Woodbadge at Schiff. They have a photo of the first course, and I believe the scouter leaning over the fire is Bill. But, not certain. Maybe another of you with the book can take a look.

If at all possible, we get the boys to strike tents and lay out to dry while breakfast prep is going on. Of course, it is always a challenge to get them to do it, especially if you are trying to leave it in the junior leaders' hands. With the common use of domes, or similar tents, you can empty them and just turn them upside down without taking the poles out. This works pretty well if you have sun. And, leaving too early really defeats the intent of the weekend anyway. We usually plan on afternoon arrival home, time dependent on how far we are out.

Engineer; over time the cost per participant decreases, finally reaching a pretty much break even, though maintenance costs would extend it. How long does it take a major tourist park to recoup their costs? This is a good thing, especially with our continuing struggles with PC issues. But it also gives east coast people another great high adventure outlet, as well as re-institutes a training location in that part of the country.

Okay, so I DID sign up, just not using my normal id. Again, I cannot find anything remotely like the $5.99. It really is not that important; but at times, it seems posters just seem to want to find anything possible to gripe about in regard to National. As pointed out by others, it is $12 a year through the troop. Cover price is $3.95, and yearly outside subscription is $24. The subscription shown on this site is $23.99, a savings of one cent from the $24. Again, maybe I simply cannot read, or see what is being referred to. The only way I got $5.99 was to divide the price I found by 3. But it is a one year subscription, not a three. Whatever; $12 is a really great price for the mag, especially in today's magazine market. And it is also available on-line, including much more. I give my old ones to one of the schools in which I sub, so they get used until they fall apart.

Not sure what you are talking about. I looked at the link, and it is listed for $23.99, a supposed savings of $12.01 off a year's subscription. Am I missing something?

Rolling on a barrel was one of the early drowning recommendations.

Yes, I add my thanks to Terry too. Have watched a number of boards come and go, and this one works pretty well for the most part. And have gotten some good info on occasion, and a lot of entertainment.

Eagle92; I understand the current requirement, though my understanding is that any council SE can, if he chooses waive a particular element in special circumstances. But, my point is that for adults with families and limited vacation have family priorities which may take their longer term time and making it hard for them to work in the resident camp. Meanwhile, they spend almost every month out for one to three nights, do the training, teach skills for camping and hiking, and so on, but they are not allowed to be nominated unless they are willing to choose the troop over their family. That can easily be fixed with alternate requirements which include what I just described. For example: use the current in place requirment; or have 25-30 (you choose a reasonable number)of overnights with the troop as a leader, a tenure of say at least two or three years, and complete certain training, including specific outdoor training and first aide. My point is that there are adults nominated and approved that barely have those 15 days and nights, including the long term, and who have only the minimal training. Their contributions are far less than someone with two or three years of regular monthly camping; and their skills are often inferior and their repertoire with the scouts less inclusive. If anything, if the alternate was installed as an option, those that were nominated under it would be, most likely, better OA members. JMHO of course.

If an adult is active in supporting the outdoor program in his own unit, then he certainly deserves to be considered once he has met the requirements. The adults with whom I have occasional issue are ones that somehow get nominated from outside the unit, and who basically do nothing to truly encourage the camping of units. Fortunately, there are fewer now a days it seems in our lodge, though still some. Still wish National would consider alternate requirements for unit level scouters who have spent years doing the 2 and 3 day campouts, but use their limited vacation days for family, so never do the long term. Especially if they have made the effort to get advanced outdoor training. Have had a couple that were deemed ineligible because of no summer camp, yet had spent in excess of 25-30 nights out with the troop over a few years, and did High Adventure training, Trail Boss, and first aid, including wilderness level. One finally was able to go to summer camp; but his son was pushing 17 by then. We had nominated his dad the year before, including an explanation of his qualifications, but our local SE refused to waive the summer camp part. Really was disappointing, as he had hoped to go through an Ordeal with his son. But, when he did do it, his son was there getting Brotherhood. But, as one of the gold tabs informed me at jambo 2010; "No way will they ever consider having an optional adult requirement. If they cannot go to summer camp; tough luck." Or words to that effect.

OGE; Do I sense a smidgen of sarcasm?

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2011/12/from-the-chief-get-our-scouts-outside/

No where do I see any authorization for throwing out a completed and approved project that is turned in as part of the Eagle board prep. Once it is signed off by the required individuals, then it is done. Now, discussion of the project might warrant some serious questions and clarifications. We once had to have the candidate fix paperwork relating to hour compilation so to make it clear that he used more than his sister, mother, and father in completing the project. He had not made his work force clear, nor how many hours they actually contributed. We rescheduled his board and he had reworked the part needed to reflect accuracy and not likely be an issue at National somehow. But, this was done before actually sitting the candidate for the face to face. Review of the paperwork by the board prior to the interview, led to the decision. The scout and his parents understood completely the concerns, and it concluded a couple weeks later successfully. We all learned something from it actually, I think. As a SM, I was reminded that I need to review the final paperwork completely, so as to hopefully eliminate a problem. And the individual that vets the paperwork initially, also realized he had missed this when reviewing initially, and made a note in his checklist to not have that happen again. But, the new forms are far better than those prior to this. And the ability to simply say "see attached" is still there.

Friday night and Saturday morning, February 10-11, 2012. Same location; Oxnard Elks Lodge, 801 South A Street, Oxnard, Ca.

I have had a modicum of success with taking garlic tablets. While now it is also a supplement for generic health, I began using it years ago for camping. Take a few days ahead of time daily, then take it at least once a day at camp, twice if really buggy. Since doing this, have had far less issue with most insects. Horse flies do not care, and no see-ums still swarm, but appear to not like me when they land. Reality is that if you camp, bugs are part of the coping process. I saw one guy with one of those hat fans, and he did not have many bugs around his head; do not know about other exposed areas. Of course, as noted, netting and protective clothing is often half the battle.

Happy Boxing Day

Thanks Bart, interesting discussion of the explanation. Still, another fun thing to try and explain old traditions. Realistically, most of the old songs and so on are difficult to really determine origin. Silent Night does appear to have truth to its story. Surely there are a few others. Merry Christmas or whatever you prefer.