skeptic

Personally, while I can see the concern about interaction, I feel that would be an easy adjustment for most. Those that really do have issues would still need to have the option to be all of one or the other. Big thing is having proper and consistent coed adult participation, especially in the camping arena. There is no specific wording in the overall mission of Scouting that requires outdoor activities. It is simply a continuation of earlier traditions which fit well into the environments of the time. Coed has existed almost to the earliest days in some form, especially in the older age groups. Growth, while a wonderful goal, is not the reason for the program. It is developing character and good citizens through activities that the youth find enjoyable. And that development is the result of the youth directly involved in THEIR planning and its success. IF, by going coed, the overall program did grow, that would be great; but that should not be the reason to do it. As far as rank and so on, many of the already in place requirements are totally compatible with both genders. Those very few that might really be a problem could simply have options specific to the gender issue. After almost forty years with my unit, I know that challenges are just that. I am for the option, even though I am old and driven crazy by giggly girls in the middle school age bracket. Most of that pretty much goes away as they get older, to be supplanted by other annoyances and concerns. Anything leading to more positive growth for our youth is to be aspired to.

While I already have told the troop we can no longer use the church van, which is a 95 GMC, it is in the Tour Plan files already. Be interesting to see if it gets flagged should I mark the box. Have an outing coming up very soon, so will see what it does.

Wish we had a local shop. REI is way too pricey, though very nice store.

Was trying to possibly find the origin of the quote from the World Jamboree speech noted in another thread. Found this, and it amused me, especially since it was on these boards I first saw the expression and its acronym. From the epilogue of B.P.'s Outlook, page 187: B.P. is discussing his stepping back from the the worldwide movement in 1940, not long before his death; and he compared it to his resigning his cavalry commission. It has been very much the same with the Scout Movement. After being in it up the neck for over thirty years, I went for three months holiday to Kenya. There I developed a tired heart, and a radiumed eye, under a doctor whose orders were "You must stay put here". His orders were further enforced by Hitler and his war, and 'she who must be obeyed' added her voice to the decision. Of course, the acronym SWMBO has been seen numerous times on these threads. Did not realize it was something B.P. had said though.

Mr. Rowe has more sense than to even consider such a move, and do not believe his ego is big enough either.

KenD500 Found similar quote from BSA site; http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/ScoutSabbathServices/badenpowell.aspx Similar wording, but not the same in Rovering to Success under "illreligion", as well as a couple of other areas noted from the index. Still have not found the exact source, having looked in a number of his books of writings and such. Again, close proximity to this in Aids to Scoutmastership as well. Have a lot of other books to review. If I find it, I will post it.

Come on; anything President Obama does has to be with an agenda. If he says God bless you after someone sneezes, he is somehow being hypocritical or worse. If he shows simple courtesy to the wrong person, he is somehow licking their boots or some other negative comment. Even the least imaginable positive thing he does, somehow is construed as negative by large groups of poorly educated loudmouths, usually in foul and strident terms. Of course I may be exaggerating a tiny bit; but not as much as I wish. I truly am embarrassed by the image too many represent to the world community. It is one thing to disagree and dislike; quite another to denigrate with rudeness, crass comments, and familial put downs. It is simply sad.

Found this of interest, especially in the context of some of the more recent antagonistic discussions on this forum. http://scout.org/wsj2015/content/92536 The author, Scott Teare, shares this near the end of the article. In the words of our founder, and I quote him now: “Let us, therefore, in training our Scouts, keep the higher aims in the forefront, not let ourselves become too absorbed in the steps. Don't let the technical outweigh the moral. (Things like) field efficiency, backwoodsmanship, camping, hiking, good turns, jamboree comradeship are all means, not the end. The end is character with a purpose. And that purpose (is) that the next generation may be sane in an insane world, and develop the higher realisation of service, active service of Love, and Duty to God and neighbour.â€

Now Calico, let's not try and be rational or see another perspective. We have to holler bloody murder if anything NEW is suggested or heaven forbid, actually given a try. Yes, we need to do more to keep the "outing in Scouting", but that is not to say there may not be other avenues of program that can and will work. And, with STEM, reality is that a number of STEM related subjects can play very well into the outdoor program, possibly even enhance it to some extent. When I was at the 2010 Jambo, one of the most popular areas for scouts was the science and technology area. And the Pioneering area there included a number of mechanical devices made from spars and lines. That is technology I think, just as updated First Aide techniques are, or using photography and microscopes to identify plants, insects, or animals from the wild. Use ALL the tools available to draw them in, then find ways to include the outdoors in the overall scheme. Nawww; never work!

Personally, I was fairly confident this would be the decision. But, I am thankful my confidence was proven. Am a bit surprised by the few comments after over 80 views of the original post. More troubling though is that half appear to have wanted the break, and still continue to pound the drums of negativity and conjecture. To me, this shows a total lack of Scout Spirit, and is truly disappointing.

My problem with these reports is that I cannot get the training with older codes accepted. They finally fixed me manually by putting in new codes. But, in the more detailed list all my training shows just about, but since it was decades back, they do not cross reference like training. Have two other members on my adult list with very old training, one as old as mine. So far, have been unable to get it fixed. On the other hand, at least I now can see more info than in the past, especially the YP, which is shown separately.

Recharter fees, on the charter, are $24 per person; Boys Life at $12 (I think still) per; a general charter fee of $20. Other fees would normally be council level insurance, which does not show on the actual charter paperwork, and possibly advance payment for unit honor recognitions. Do not believe councils can add local charges on top of the National fees, though could be wrong. So, theory would say a scout would pay $24 basic, possibly $12, and in our council just under a dollar per scout for insurance. We order JTE patches separately after the fact and do not specifically charge the scout. Scouters are similar. Dual registered in more than one position within the same council only requires one fee, though separate recharter listings. So district or council positions held by unit members are only paid in one charter fee, usually the primary unit, then listed as dual. Same goes for youth who may be in both a crew and troop. We have one dual registration though that is paid twice. One of our adults who is a SB recipient while in our troop, and whose son is an Eagle from the troop, wants to remain on our charter for personal reasons; but she now lives in another state and is active there. She has to send me separate YP verification to manually enter, and she pays in both councils. In our council, we have many units that simply charge a flat fee to cover it all, including padding of various amounts. But, minimum one year fees for recharter should be between $24 and $36, plus local insurance in most cases, about a dollar. The "charter fee" is only applied to the whole unit.

Very poor title; suggests this is a reality when it is simply another stoking of rumor that will upset people to some degree. What is the reason, other than to make more waves? Sorry; but get tired of the constant tendency for some to LOOK for problems and conjecture things to cause friction.

Letters are solicited by the Scout AFTER application and project are turned in to the office. The letters are not absolutely required, and the basic paperwork must be time stamped prior to the candidate's 18th birthday. While relatively uncommon, the absolute last minute paperwork issue is real. The letters are mailed back to the council and then given to the review committee. If any are not received in a timely manner, they do not cause further delay, though the Scout is reminded normally if they are not forthcoming in a reasonable time frame. We normally get at least 80% or better, depending on the candidate and if an employer is included. While it is not on the list directly, we also ask the SM or if necessary, his representative to submit one as well.

Just up on FB, a new Scoutmaster's Blog that shares a B.P. piece from 1932 that fits much of our discussions and complaints on these forums. http://scoutmastercg.com/b-ps-blog-put-yourself-in-his-place/

Just updated mine, and seems to me that the intro has been improved since the last time I took it. It clearly notes that all participants, registered or not, should "be familiar" with the basic YP policies. We try to get parents to at least take the non member on-line program, even if they choose not to actually register.

Can see the uniform police now. They will yell about the way it is rolled, the type of slide and the slides position or if there is a slide at all, or too short or too long, or crooked, or not an "official" one with a FDL or other specifically Scout related symbol, and whether on a collared shirt it is under or over the collar. Surely, they will find more stuff that does not come to mind too. Should be lots of fun to sit back and watch and listen.

Number of posts, all from same individual with an Asian name; one post in character writing. Please block or whatever needs to be done. Thanks.

Oh quit being so logical and using common sense. We live in the age of egocentrism to the max.

Can we say "Captain Obvious"?

And any of this has what to do with the BSA and their leadership decision? IF the CO is a religious organization with certain beliefs, they can adhere to them. Do not see how Canon law, or whatever has much to do with it. This thread started out about Lutherans.

Quit focussing on the trees. The real key to me is the very strong part that says: BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: The Boy Scouts of America hereby adopts the following statement on sexuality and adult leaders: Matters of marriage, family, and sexuality raise profound social, moral, and theological questions. The Boy Scouts of America has always been deeply respectful of the religious and moral beliefs of its chartering organizations, including religious organizations. The Boy Scouts of America affirms that sexual relations between adults should be moral, honorable, committed, and respectful. Adult Scout leaders should reflect these values in their personal and public lives so as to be proper role models for youth. The Boy Scouts of America affirms the right of each chartering organization to reach its own religious and moral conclusions about the specific meaning and application of these values. The Boy Scouts of America further affirms the right of each chartering organization to select adult leaders who support those conclusions in word and deed and who will best inculcate the organization’s values through the Scouting program. The Boy Scouts of America rejects any interference with or condemnation of the diverse beliefs of chartering organizations on matters of marriage, family, and sexuality. The message of Scouting is one of toleration and respect for different religious and moral conclusions in this matter, acknowledging that reasonable minds may honorably differ. Any effort to exclude or penalize chartering organizations based on their beliefs or policies regarding marriage, family, or sexuality is contrary to the Boy Scouts of America’s commitment to religious freedom and respect for the beliefs and convictions of its chartered organizations. This is where the real decision is focussed. And in truth, it could just as much be something not related to the Gay issue, like a leader bragging in front of the scouts and others about some kind of affair; or telling suggestive stories; or being drunk or high.

Seems pretty clear to me: BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: The Boy Scouts of America hereby adopts the following statement on sexuality and adult leaders: Matters of marriage, family, and sexuality raise profound social, moral, and theological questions. The Boy Scouts of America has always been deeply respectful of the religious and moral beliefs of its chartering organizations, including religious organizations. The Boy Scouts of America affirms that sexual relations between adults should be moral, honorable, committed, and respectful. Adult Scout leaders should reflect these values in their personal and public lives so as to be proper role models for youth. The Boy Scouts of America affirms the right of each chartering organization to reach its own religious and moral conclusions about the specific meaning and application of these values. The Boy Scouts of America further affirms the right of each chartering organization to select adult leaders who support those conclusions in word and deed and who will best inculcate the organization’s values through the Scouting program. The Boy Scouts of America rejects any interference with or condemnation of the diverse beliefs of chartering organizations on matters of marriage, family, and sexuality. The message of Scouting is one of toleration and respect for different religious and moral conclusions in this matter, acknowledging that reasonable minds may honorably differ. Any effort to exclude or penalize chartering organizations based on their beliefs or policies regarding marriage, family, or sexuality is contrary to the Boy Scouts of America’s commitment to religious freedom and respect for the beliefs and convictions of its chartered organizations. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: No local council may refuse to process or approve a charter application or in any way limit the participation of a Scouting unit based upon the chartered organization’s exercise of its right to select adult leaders as provided in this resolution. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: The Boy Scouts of America will defend and indemnify to the fullest extent allowed by law any bona fide religious chartered organization against any claim or action contending that the chartered organization’s good faith refusal to select a unit leader based upon the religious principles of the chartered organization is in violation of the law.

Here is the same item in a grouping of historical compass photos. The back does not show, but I think whomever suggested it is non BSA may be right. Date is not apparent, but guessing 50's is close, as this general style of pouch was popular back then. http://compassmuseum.com/pocket/pocket_3.htm

" Particually as even the act of sharing Ineligible Files between the groups would probably be perceived as libel against the ineligble individual, crushing the groups under the weight of lawsuits." Interesting comment, as currently we have lawyers suing the BSA because "they did not share" the files.