skeptic

Depending on how far back they need to go, many recharters were still hand done. That means hand written materials on carboned forms, at one time. Reading some of our units very early charter lists is a study in patience and lots of guessing. Printed rosters only were common going back about 25 years or less.

"If the troops have lost that number of rosters it does not look good. " Not sure why that looks bad. Many troops do not keep historical records, or they purge files over time; if nothing else for space and so on. Now, unit charters that are part of annual recharter, the copies at the Council offices, I do not know if there is a legal time they need to be kept. Most types of files are no more than 7 years I have been led to believe. So, not having them would not be odd. Considering how many emails appeared in my spam box soon after the advertising began, and also the ads coming on FB and other sites where my Scouting involvement was noted, it is obvious that the accumulators were seriously beating the bushes. Even recently I got another ad in my spam list.

I had forwarded this recent item to our local church, who just a few weeks ago told us we are theirs as far as they are concerned, but maybe under the lease option. Now she tells us that should they not arrive at a satifactory agreement, they are being told that too is out the door. A century of service with our church; it is simply maddening. The church loves us, but they cannot put themselves in a position of legal danger, especially as they too, as the oldest protestant church in our city, are struggling. The really sad thing of course is that the mainline churches are at the forefront of working with transients and the less fortunate. Our facility leases to a half dozen or more groups that serve the community social issues. In the next few days, or youth from all three very tiny groups will be helping make cards for seniors, and collecting food for local pantries.

Not to be mean or uncaring, but this is something with which adults simply found a way to deal with it, often with others in the group. But, taking it to extremes and thinking somehow a local, adult confrontation should be handled beyond the immediate unit is extreme, as I see it. Certainly the idea that somehow the National President somehow should be involved is surely not a real expectation, and really maybe not even the local head council executive. Guess I am viewing things from my age perspective. Today, for some reason, many people think they need to find a solution beyond their own interpersonal groups. This often is now seen in families too, where people try to involve outside people in solving their personal problems. I live in a HOA, and we regularly get people that complain to the management and board about so and so, a neighbor, or someone in the larger HOA area. But, they have made little or no effort to actually deal with it, but think the board can fix it, even when there is not a clear infraction, or even absolute eviden ce that a particular person is responsible. And they often refuse to simply call police for trespass or noise disturbances, and even threats. I understand that people often are afraid of any confrontations, especially in our modern society where suing is a first resort, and often people are prone to overreaction and violence of some order. Still, most problems can be solved with direct discussion and compromise. Of course, our so called leaders have no idea how that works either, and meanwhile some people continue to bend rules and even laws with little accountibility.

That she did not include the part where they note that it is still in negotiation and that the No vote recommendation would, and could change if the ongoing discussions reach an agreement. That is sort of important. I have seen other articles from her that also leave bits and pieces out in realtion to the Church ongoing issues, such as the LBQT disruptions.

It might be good to have a complete look at what is shared by the Church on the Methodist Mens' Site, who are responsible for the Scouts. The above is an incomplete and misleading piece, and it does not lend itself to the larger picture. Here is the link to the actual Methodist site, including the announcement. Note the additional comments regarding "ongoing negotiations", as that changes the the picture dramatically. Still a mess, but posting incomplete info is not helpful. https://www.umc.org/en/content/congregations-encouraged-to-vote-no-on-bsa-bankruptcy-plan

No disagreement from me here. But, we are unlikely to see this attitude change much due to our terribly flawed legal system. Many of the lawsuits we see in this country would never even make it to court elsewhere. While common sense appears in danger globally to some extent, in this country it is on life support. JMHO of course, having ridden in pickup beds and not having had a helmet for my balloon tired, coaster brake bike, or for that matter, when I first rode a horse or rolloer skated. No pads either. That does not mean I do not agree that these safety items are not needed, only that overkill tends to lead to rebelling, or simply ignoring.

The reason the Region 12 song was put aside, to be kind, is because it suggested sleeping in the nude, and it sort of snubbed noses at other regions in its chorus. Ane we loved it. I still occasionally sing the original, just for fun.

So, for fun, not whatever contentious opinions might transpire, share some old songs and skits we used before the age of "verybody" is offended, and there is unacceptable innuendo in that skit or song. The old "mine is longer than yours" skit. It was a standard in the fifties and sixties. Or, the original Region 12 song; the one we sang literally to death at the 1960 Jamboree.

https://1funny.com/allan-sherman-performing-camp-grenada-1963/

While I personally understand your point, I feel calling it a lie may be a poor choice of words. To me, it is simply a sloppy use of words. Too many today are unable to write concisely.

Perhaps too much redirection, but I could see a variant of the merit badge that allowed segments for various specialty areas.

Not certain the above is accurate, but if somehow it is, it discourages Scouting brotherhood, sharing with other units in activities. I do not see an issue with two or even three units combining on some activities, both for the needed participation for success, and for the simple concept of Scout Spirit and sharing. IF a CO has reservations, then they can make that decision related to a specific activity. I do not see most having any real issues with other unit events and visiting and participating. Our summer camp regularly attaches occasional provisional scouts to units for various reasons, with the approvals of the other units and the parents. Maybe I am not reading other comments accurately? After all, how would this apply to a Jamboree?

Thank you.

Sorry, that is your view. But, perhaps I should add addressing any physical problems as well as possible? I still contend that the monetary elements should be in the form of actual help, whether physical or mental; not just a big chunk of dollars. I am sorry you find that insulting, but that was and is not the intent.

My point is that the money should be put into the needed programs to aid emotional issues past and present. Such programs then open to those in need with proper vetting of eligibility. No amount of money is ever enough to make up from the past, and the concept that a payment fixes anything is fictitious. Simply giving people money out of societal guilt is likely not productive for them in likely most cases. If the money is tied to actual therapy, it is then at least sensible. I likely do not need to point out that most people, when handed unexpected dollars, tend to not spend it on fixing what the guilt payment is intended. We just arrive back though at the same place. My contention is to offer all survivors the actual help they need to redirect their lives, while also working to find better ways to combat the CA rampant in society as a whole. To me, that should be the goal, not just to say here is whatever amount, now you are okay. But we need a balance that addresses the wrongs from the past, but with as little damage to the present as possible. That perceived big pot of money has a lot of current-day attachments. That needs to be part of the consideration. Add to the "settlement" perhaps an honest attempt to also bring those still around that are the actual perpetrators to justice as well. Finally, the continuing suggestion that because some of us may look at things without the weight of being a victim of this particular event does not mean that we cannot have our own demons and understand the difficulty these survivors may have encountered and continue to encounter. They simply exist in different mental shadows and are our own struggles which we choose to keep to ourselves, or perhaps with our own methods of therapy. So, now it again is time to watch the likely continued tragedy play out to a poor conclusion for most involved, except perhaps the lawyers.

Since I tend to be super skeptical of most attorneys in this kind of case, the scenario is just reinforcing that perception for me. I truly see the focus on money, period, and the rest of the background is just dressing to make them look good, perhaps. And the money focus is the guiding part of the process, whether for survivors or the lawyers. The YP focus continues to fall into the background, and much of what has improved in that arena, both with BSA, and the larger society gets pushed to the back in favor of the monetary, greed and playing the system for profit. It seems to me that the focus should be on getting the survivors the mental help and counseling that they may need at the expense of the BSA and others, not on throwing money at them, encouraging avarice by some, and especially by the "legal" opportunists. My view of a continuing circus with no absolute answers; so they continue to think money will instead solve it all. It won't, only leave bitterness behind. Meanwhile, the youth of the current era are not being well served, especially with the focus, in my view, being where it is. IF real, viable guidelines for YP can evolve, that is a win; but it needs to not be corrupted by avarice.

Seems like mostly a learning opportunity at this point. The worst thing the adults can do is get in the middle of it with some attitude issues, as has been suggested already. The key is that whatever transpires, each of them does a complete project, complemetary or not. We had twin brothers years ago that did project independently but at the same non-profit. They both turned out well, and the recipient of the service was thrilled. Initially, the troop had to deal with the youth and their parents not quite getting that it had to be two separate activities. Of course, at the time, the two were twins that were almost joined at the hip. It was definitely a learning and growth experience for all of us.

This reflects on my contention that BSA, at all levels, should be he poster image for environmental focus. Green if possible, including solar and wind, along with composting and maybe even solar toilets in some cases. Bring internet at high speed to camps if possible. As noted, the photo becomes the collection, which means they use their phones much of the time. Technology can be our frind. BP even acknowledged that at times. Be the example that makes the nastiness of the media have to admit the benefits of Scouting.

On the other hand, this in from Bryan on Scouting offers a valid and, to me, exciting direction to the program, if done properly. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2021/11/19/scout-camps-new-skilled-trades-center-will-introduce-young-people-to-in-demand-fields/ This plays well into the current California redirection of junior colleges to more focus on local options and trade school opportunities. I could see a camp being part of the refocus of this needed venture in redirection of education and skills. We already have a perfect example at our camp with welding, run by Jack Compton, the creator of the main elements of the merit badge. Besides camp, he also does the program for units, usually finalized with a weekend of welding and camping on his property in the Lake Piru area. Proper utilization of the camp properties should include these types of options, as well as more traditional adventures. And, the development might add to the community outreach and positive vibes for the various areas.

Yep, many things we did that made the youth stay were the challenges of games and one on one physical competitions. In the early Scouting materials you can find many such contests that pit one on one. Many, today, would be considered "too dangerous" or "too much of a chance for minor injuries". What those of us now in the doddering stage of life may still remember is that we learned to deal with minor pain and trivial scratches or strains, especially if we defeated an arch competitor. I used to teach the kids to do Indian leg wrestling which means success is often in the quickness and technique, but if the combatants are too different in size much chance for the smaller ones. Yet, the smaller boys often insisted on being rolled just for the fun of it. We also did a balance joust game with padded batons made with old boxing gloves and later additional coverage of foam. At SOR's, we did these things as part of the show, and we were always busy. The worst injury to come out of those SOR contests was my own; a serious hamstring pull when I took on another leader and we were locked in the air in a stalemate for a long while until I literally heard the sound as the pain shot through to my glutes. Could not walk for over a week without serious help. I suppose today if that happened to youth in a contest it would be liability time. That in itself is where much of our problems lie.

The slip is important, especially should the youth get separated from the parent in some manner and the parent cannot be found or brought in a timely manner. Most permission slips, scouting related or otherwise also have medical authorizations for emergencies too.

Entertaining pulp stories published early taking advantage of the Boy Scout interest in youth. Eaton one of the better ones, but most of the books in the genre of the period are poor plots and do not use factual Scouting ideas and skills. That is why BSA did not approve or recommend many of them. Still, the young adult, youth pulp books payed a part in many youth becoming readers, and many graduated to real literature and fine fiction, as well as nonfiction. While this is not my original concept, I would agree based on having read some of them, and noted the outlandish and often dangerous plots. Best part of many were the covers and occasional illustrations.

You can always come back to what a similar experience from completely private vendors would cost. Perhaps someone has some comparatives? My search skills do not work well for me.

That anyone involved should even be making 10% of that figure is obscene. Simply reflects the status of our legal system.