skeptic

All I am asking is that they go beyond the witch hunt with BSA and take other bites of the elephant. Expand the focus to include other agencies and publicly drag them into view. I realize this discussion is on the BSA, but the point is that it should not simply be on BSA, but should be clearly reaching far beyond them, as it is not JUST a BSA issue, but a real societal issue that dwarfs the localized drama. And, with that, I bow out again, for a bit, at least.

Cute; but it really dodges the question. The issue with BSA is far larger than just the BSA. It is a massive problem in most youth serving groups, and even more so in the governmental oversight agencies. That is to what I refer.

" I do also like the idea of widespread AG investigations. They are overdue and appropriate." Would that apply beyond the BSA? If not, then it is simply ignoring the elephant in the room, IMHO.

Simply ANY acknowledgement that this whole witch hunt pales in comparison to the issues in our Government agencies and connected support groups who "supposedly" are paid to protect children. I am simply looking to see actual balance in responses to these tragedies. But, it seems to me, a novice, that few will make the effort to "fix" these shortcomings in Government agencies. Why? Lawyers do not feel they can win? It is cheaper to attack non-governmental groups? The Government and related groups have the aura of being official, so they cannot be held to the grindstone? I do not know. B

While surely most reading this thread would agree that any abuse is too much abuse, we still cannot completely stop it, as it is and always has been a negative side of some human personalities. As noted above, and many times in this tragedy, perfection in defending is not possible. Let's perhaps have some of the better stat finders do some serious comparisons to the National Child Protective Services in this regard. Even a cursory Google search will turn up some truly scary stats. But, because it is part of the Government, it is not held to the same rabid public shame and calls for rec

Here again, from Troop 111 in Ventura, California is an apex of Scouting. Thanks to Craig Carey, ASM and his dedicated parents, and thoroughly enthusiastic Scouts. Locally, Scouting is showing its best face, and other units are sharing at times. This is what dedicated leaders can make happen with patience and imagination. And it is not just the trail work, exceptional at any level for novices, but also many other areas of service in our area. Take a look. Many of you reading this might find it a possible option for your own area with a little searching. https://issuu.com/ojaivisitorsgui

I came back last Saturday from our camp. All staff had to be vaccinated. All adult leaders had to be vaccinated. Eligible youth were asked to be vaccinated. We had to have proof of the vaccination as part of the paperwork. Precamp troop checks were done with a BSA designed check list. On the day we left, we again went through the checklist and had temps taken. On arrival, we were interviewed and had temps taken. At every meal we had to sanitize in front of a staff person and have temp taken. All group activity required masks, and they enforced it firmly, but nicely, even with th

Just the old guy response. I have a number of Mentor pins on the pocket flap of my primary uniform under the knots. Why? Because young person honored me with them, and I seems right to wear them. I know one local that for whatever reason has a dozen or more. He has a pocket device he made to hang from the right pocket nd keeps them on there. Most are only worn at formal troop events, though my pins simply stay there except when the shirt goes to be cleaned.. Uniform police can be ignored. It is your decision, and if they have purpose, or mean something, that is the only thing that mat

It happened decades ago now in the old Great Western Council. A COR got miffed and spent a great amount of time gathering other COR's to attend in force. They summarily booted the Executive and his assistant. But it took him a long time to gather the troops, so to speak, and the mess had been brewing for a while. I would need to check the state laws regarding banning voting members from the inner sanctum, so to speak. Not sure that is legal, though it may be as long as a decision requiring a vote is not made without all voting members notified. It is also mostly true that the CO seldom s

Here is the applicable wording from the BSA directly. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-421(16)_WEB.pdf Note this specific statement: "In territory supervised by local councils, each chartered organization shall appoint a volunteer, other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader, as its chartered organization representative to represent it as a member of the district committee and as a voting member of the local council.” The following official description of a chartered organization representative is found in the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Sc

I would hope not, but much depends on the next few months. There was a schism in the church recently, and there likely is also a difference in those views more locally. Our own congregation and pastors are strongly behind us, but they are still tied to the Conference decisions. Hopefully that will be easier by year end. Almost all the troops over 40 years old in our council are Methodists, and ours is 100 in December. The big thing is to NOT be chicken little every time someone says something that may suggest a change in view. At least in my experience, more rational voices rise to the t

For some direct and less paranoiac info from the main Methodist group. https://www.facebook.com/MethodistScouting/posts/576502677088897?notif_id=1626798180694932&notif_t=page_followed_contents_awareness&ref=notif I spoke with our local minister yesterday, and we are in So Cal, the heart of the liberal church, and she assured me that Methodists in most of the country are not pushing to throw us out. But, she also said that there is a smaller segment, mostly in what we might call Red states, that make that noise. Anyway, read the link above.

This is old news, though glad to see it is progressing. Please try to keep the time frames clear, as I thought while I was at camp I missed something tragic again. Thanks.

You do realize that the COR has had the right to sit on the Executive board for decades do you not? Just because few do, it has been in place a long time and on rare occasion has resulted in dismissal of a Council executive and major changes. But, since few ever pay any attention, too many boards run amuck with power people who want recognition or to do things "their way" and to "their" benefit. Going clear back to the original Dale quagmire, IF this had been done, it would have been left in the lap of the CO to make the decision. But, somehow, those erudite "forward thinkers" decide

There is nothing obvious on the net regarding this, and with the media attitude towards BSA, that is surprising to say the least. Perhaps this can be actually verified?

Yesterday, trying to clean up "stuff" I found a group of printed out opinion pieces from around the BSA's centennial year. Hard copies of various writers and public figures, as well as just old timers and silent, distanced supporters. One of them is the shared explanation of Terry as to why he has chosen his particular course in relation to BSA. It reminded me as to why I originally chose to join the group, and also that we all have our own views and ways of support and ways to change our compasses in relation to Scouting. Perhaps this might be reshared? I can scan it, but it would be eas

Ventura County Council. It was the first official camp after our founding in June, 2021, opening in 1923. We lost it during the Depression to a project to put U.S. 399 over the mountains from Ventura to the Bakersfield area. Most of what was then 399 stopped at the base of the mountains on the Bakerfield side. Anyway, an agreement was reached for the camp property, including guaranteed lease for property in the Lockwood Valley area near Mount Pinos and Frazier Park. The Lees who had a turkey ranch in Lockwood gave a small plot of land to the scouts, and leases were developed up canyon fro

We had one in Camp Gray, our first camp in the twenties, and he continued for a time to the second camp, 3-Falls, still in use, in the thirties. the kids and staff loved him, and he was duly missed when he decided to chuck it in. I think he may have been an army Army or Navy cook at one time.

(deleted) No more comments, though maybe see if any actual new info shows up with actual solutions that are balanced. To answer your other rude question, at least twice we turned someone in for possible abuse, and investigations were done. It was not sexual abuse though. We also contacted one family in regard to a teen scout that was abusing another youth. The parents refused to accept, but the authorities were told in regard to his being in public schools. We did our due diligence if we had information, but we cannot make authorities follow up, and too often, as in some of these cas

(deleted) Sorry, but I am simply tired of the BS of somehow thinking money can cure everything. (deleted). Just my opinion, and I understand you suffered considerable based on what you have shred. Not to be crude, but if someone said here is a billion dollars, now leave it alone, would that somehow cure you? I doubt it, but you, and others with similar stories would have simply had a hand in causing harm to others through the unfeeling system of vengeance. Again, just my perspective, and it applies not just to this unfortunate case. Vengeance at the expense of others who had no hand in

"The official victims committee, which is known as the tort claimants committee and is charged with acting as a fiduciary for all abuse victims, estimates the value of some 82,500 sexual abuse claims at about $103 billion." For some reason, this statement really annoys me. "The Value?"

I keep seeing individuals comment that BSA has to somehow guarantee this can never happen again. That is not a likely possibility, as we live in the real world of humans, and they are prone to a wide range of less than positive actions and ideas. There can never be an absolute, but the barriers and safeguards can be put in place and closer awareness should become a regular part of our program, both as adults and youth. We have just had a local case in a private school that is held in high esteem. Now, there is an investigation and digging from the past. It never goes away, because pervers

Okay, what am I missing in regard to the Biden connection? Did they file some kind of legal involvement? I looked at the partners on the link given, and currently are no BSA groups that I saw, though I may have missed something. Also did not see anything related to Scouting in general, or for that matter hardly any major youth serving group.

One, is you Cynical. You have suggested that somehow BSA did not do enough to stop this from happening. Reality is that no matter what BSA did or does, it will never be able to stop abuse entirely, other than simply not have a program or interaction with youth of any kind. Society, in the past, and still, looks the other way much of the time. Why, because it is part of the seamier side of the human animal and the cultures in which we live. You expect BSA, or The Catholic Church, or someone to guarantee that none of these terrible things can or will ever happen. That is not possible, and

This whole back and forth is futile, as we have a few that simply want the BSA Corporate to somehow take total responsibility for a societal sickness for which nobody has a cure, and likely never will beyond simply no interaction between adults and children. The reality that BSA often was acting at the time on the direction of outside authorities, and also families that chose to not chance the victim being publicly visible due to the legal circus, as well as misdirected fear of embarrassment. Yes, in some instances it appears, though we often do not know for sure why, that someone in BSA may