shortridge

Tampa Turtle made an observation in the original thread that meshed with some of what I've been thinking recently - that youth today aren't as interested in life on the frontier, the days of the pioneers or the lives of American Indians as they were 20, 30 years ago. I grew up in the '80s, reading and watching everything I could about Crockett, Boone, Carson, Bowie, Lewis & Clark, the Swamp Fox. That was part of why I wanted to be a Boy Scout - to be able to do the things they did. Though I now know their lives were far more complicated and much less nuanced than presented by Disney or in the Landmark books, they're still fascinating and inspiring. I don't see that among today's youth. Has the frontier and early American life simply fallen out of vogue?

BSA24 - Why were adults (a) dressing up as Indians or (b) dancing? Adults in the OA should be doing nothing of the sort. ponz - Arrow of Light or crossover ceremonies are often developed locally, and not necessarily "screened."

Sounds more to me like National has the pledges, just not the money in hand quite yet. And it's always been clear that more money needed to be raised - the Bechtels only gave $50 million, a drop in the bucket. From the press release: "The New River Gorge property will require a large investment. The effort has already received a large boost with the announcement of the $50 million gift from the S. D. Bechtel, Jr. Foundation." www.scouting.org/Media/PressReleases/PreviousYears/2009/20091120.aspx

I believe the photograph is of the 7-year-old boy who was rescued. That would have been the general hairstyle for young children of that time period. Young boys of long-ago times used to go around in what looked like dresses until they hit a certain age.

Almost everything you mentioned could and should be handled by the troop and patrol quartermasters - who are, by definition, Scouts.

Tossing in my appreciation as well. Plus I love the site as it works now. It's easy on the eyes and simple to use. That's a great combination.

"Can you tie a sheepshank?"

Corral all these nosy adult leaders into a room. Ask them all to close their eyes, so all disclosures are private. Then ask them to raise their hands if they've ever uttered a swear word, had an impure thought or talked about sex with someone not their spouse. Then ask everyone who raised their hand to submit their resignations, because they don't live up to their own puritanical standards. Seriously: Back up your SM to the hilt on this, and tell the parents politely that it's none of their business. The SM's plan wouldn't be the way I'd handle it, but he's closest to the boys and knows them the best. Also suggest that he have a conversation with the SPL about appointing a full-time chaplain's aide. Then, in your role as CC, find the most reasonable, down-to-earth adult you can and make him or her your Troop Chaplain to mentor this young man. Religion is clearly important to your troop, so you should have someone dedicated to this. (Remember: A Troop Chaplain is an adult; a chaplain's aide is a Scout.)

First, in talking with him, make sure that he actually posted the video. There are quite a few virus-y/spoofing programs out there (I'm not sure of the exact term) that post things on peoples' FB walls without permission. Second, and trust me on this, the language in that video, unless it's Andrew Dice Clay-esque, is no worse than the language your Scouts use on campouts when you're not around. Kids swear. If the language is what's horrifying your fellow leaders, they need to get a reality check.

I would suggest that the ideas you mention, SP, are not so much marketing as they are program. A strong chapter or lodge should be doing all those things, and more. The OA shouldn't be some separate entity, although it should do some things separately. In an ideal situation, the local chapter should be organizing the whole camporee, running skills refresher sessions for the adults at roundtables, delivering camp promotion presentations to units, helping run Cub day camps, doing special service projects at local parks ... if you can think of it, a chapter can do it. There really are no limits.

Don't know why people feel the need to out others on this board. Besides, it's been done multiple times over the years.

Tampa Turtle - I really like that approach, too. Some of them think it's silly, but it gets a much different reaction from the Scouts.

Fans, to generate good air movement. If you want to do training sessions outdoors - perhaps at picnic tables an extension cord's length from a building - set up a box fan or two.

Perhaps gifts knives, guns and firemaking kits (? I'd never heard of a formal "kit" before this thread) should best come from the parents. But parents should realize when signing up that their kids are going to learn how to use these tools properly and safely. They should also realize that it's their responsibility to provide supervision at home. The troop isn't responsible for that.

I must speak up in defense of Calvin. The Calvin I grew up with would never have tolerated car-camping. He tromped around in the woods with a tiger, built elaborate snow sculptures and created snares and booby-traps.

Photocopy the relevant pages from the Handbook and Fieldbook, and give them to her. Explain that is what you've been teaching the Scouts - proper use, safety, control - not random backyard burns. Show her the requirements for the Fire Safety MB, and discuss how the focus is all about learning how to be safe around a dangerous thing. Would she rather he not know how to put out a grease fire or fight a leaf blaze? Then, if she agrees that you haven't been encouraging him to set his yard afire and she'll keep him in Scouts, pull the boy aside for an impromptu SM conference and discuss it. Then keep a very close eye on him.

Give him a call. "Hey, Joe, can we get together next [date] to talk about the pack for a bit? I just had some questions I wanted to run by you, and some upcoming events to discuss, just to make sure we're both on the same page." Once you're sitting down over a cup of coffee or hot chocolate at your local establishment, review the upcoming events and meetings, and who's responsible for what. Then, at the end, lay it out, firmly but politely. "So, Joe, I've had some parents with concerns about the last pack meeting and the caroling. They were kind of disappointed by the way things worked out, as was I. I know things have changed recently with Tim Smith leaving - our roles are different, and I just want to make sure we've got all our bases covered to deliver a quality program. Are there any issues you have or concerns you have? I know pack program is a lot to handle for one person - unless you're Tim Smith [chuckling] - and I'm hoping to get an assistant cubmaster soon to help you out. But what are your questions or thoughts?" Just keep it low-key and solution-oriented. Don't use the word "problems." Make sure your concerns are focused, and there's no blame being cast or implied. Hopefully he'll be honest about his strengths and weaknesses, and you guys can work better as a team.

Both of those things you describe - running the pack meeting and organizing the caroling - are program. That makes them the CM's job, not yours. You should not have to "delegate" program; the CM should be coordinating it from the start. And as he's apparently fallen down on the job twice in as many days, that requires a sit-down between you, him and preferably your COR. Maybe there's a reason - he's working doubletime to pay for his family's Christmas gifts, he's dealing with a sick parent. But if he can't carry out his basic job duties, he needs to be replaced.

There's a huge difference between manners - essentially doing what is right - and rights. Don't confuse the two. We all have the right to do and say certain things. Is it necessarily the right thing to do to exercise those rights under certain circumstances? Perhaps not. But we should all be aware of our collective rights, and not spread misinformation, especially to our youth. Members of our armed forces should be especially cognizant of this. This principle is as good as any I've come across: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Yeah, we go through this every once in a while, and each time someone with incorrect information starts talking about how the Flag Code is a federal law. It is in the U.S. Code, as is a statement that everyone should stand during the National Anthem. But this little thing called the First Amendment trumps both. If someone wants to chant "Down with America!" during a rendition of the Anthem, or sit while the flag passes, or keep their hat on and flipped backwards at all times, that's their right. Chai, I respect your service to our country, but what you were told is incorrect. KC9DDI - This is what you were looking for. It's Title 4, Chapter 1. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title4/html/USCODE-2010-title4-chap1.htm

perdidochas: Are those crash stats among just young drivers, or among the populations as a whole? I got into a car accident within the first year of getting my license. I know many of my friends did the same - thankfully none with major injuries. One fellow camp staffer spun his car out into the ditch on the camp road. I'm not saying driver's ed isn't working. It clearly has accomplished its goal of making sure most drivers have a good baseline of knowledge and experience. But we should ask ourselves if that baseline is sufficient.

>> Brainstorming. Lots of young people (and even more adults) don't have the slightest clue how to begin generating ideas without self-censoring or self-correcting. Brainstorming is the process of simply throwing up every idea that pops into your head, no matter how crazy, wild or out of reach. Once all the ideas are exhausted, then the group goes back and ranks or evaluates them. It's incredibly helpful in problem-solving. >> Public speaking. The ability to stand up in front of a group and speak in a professional manner is so critically important in later life. >> Driving. A specific program on defensive driving after they get their licenses, featuring people their age who've been through crashes and now have to deal with the consequences. The current driver's ed regimen clearly isn't enough.

Eh?

My favorite line: "Whenever I see a Macys ad imploring shoppers to 'believe,' I want to stab someone with a candy cane." Thanks for the link, SSScout.

To clarify one apparent misconceptions ... not all lodges dance (mine didn't and doesn't), and the ceremonies themselves do not involve dancing. Thus, there are no such things as "dancing ceremonies."