shortridge

The rules for TC do not grandfather in the WC. They’re two different awards in two different programs. The TC covers all woods tools, not just the pocketknife.

But in reality, for a Scout who’s read the Scout Handbook sections and gotten some instruction from an older Scout, it should take maybe an hour to demonstrate all the necessary requirements to earn the TC. They can easily knock it out on their first campout. It’s hardly an inconvenience or an imposition to not be able to whittle for a day.

@5thGenTexan, I’m not seeing a “bad part” in anything you’ve said. Lots of people don’t like to camp. It’s not a big deal. Many people don’t have the time to devote to that level training. IOLS/BALOO is not mandatory for leaders at your level. The CM isn’t going to look down on you because you couldn’t find child care for your daughter. Families make decisions like that all the time. Again, no big deal.

About the food issue? Bring your own snacks, rig a bear bag (don’t keep them in your tent), and you’ll be fine. I’ve known leaders with various medical conditions that require special types of food, urgent infusions of sugar or OJ, etc. Just say it’s for a medical issue and no one will pry.

While camp costs are highly variable and locally dependent, my local council camp is $475 for a week. The local YMCA overnight camp is $980 a week. The choice is clear.

55 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Et al, it's 2018, the 90's were a long time ago.    Lots of other ways to bond found in the actual literature, no need to make it up as you go and put kids and yourself at risk.  

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/  - suggest you all review, it's got some new material and presented in a different format.    Even includes a safety moment to share on why somethings need to be unauthorized.    

RichardB 

As always, Richard, thank you for being here and for your willingness to engage.

I suspect some of the frustration here stems from the lack of information on “Why” in the G2SS. The “safety moment” doesn’t answer that at all, but just refers back to Scouting values and to the list itself.

When BSA prohibits things that we do daily in civilian life (like have kids under 14 pull wagons and push wheelbarrows, and take elementary-aged kids to play laser tag and use water guns), then the “Why” becomes even more important. Our kids are asking it, we are asking it, and it seems reasonable that there ought to be a simple answer available instead of just “read the manual.”

7 hours ago, MattR said:

What is the purpose of playing in mud?

Purpose may have been the wrong word. I meant what does the TP+flour combination *do*? Seems to me it wouldn’t throw well, and would explode in a mess that would leave toilet paper shreds all over camp. 

7 hours ago, Eagledad said:

When I was a scout, we used flour wrapped up in toilet paper as the means of tag. 

I have thought about this multiple times and still don’t understand it. How do you wrap flour up in toilet paper and use it to tag people? What is the purpose?

Lightweight running shoes and Darn Tough socks are an unbeatable combination. I wish BSA would partner with Darn Tough.

Dr. Bronner’s soap - laundry detergent, soap, body wash and toothpaste (OK, I haven’t tried that) all in one.

A camera or smartphone to take lots of pictures of your Scouts. The candids are the ones they’ll remember, not the posed shots.

Synthetic or merino wool underwear.

Surprise snacks for a special midweek nighttime treat - watermelon, s’mores, grapes, tacos, apples, etc.

Multiple bandanas so you can wear, wash, and dry at the same time.

A packable hammock and suspension straps. ENO makes a sub-six ounce version that packs up like a baseball.

A random paperback novel for a lazy afternoon in said hammock.

7 hours ago, Saltface said:

This was the fourth session of camp.

😮

I can tell you that’s not the experience at our council camps. The Scouts usually swarm the trading post sufficiently without any encouragement!

The trend I’ve seen has been adding more and more technology to camp. We now have programming, game design and robotics, plus graphic arts and moviemaking. (And drones!) I’m opposed to this (a Scout is going to have a better experience learning from a programmer or a robotics expert in their lab rather than at summer camp), but as long as they don’t water down or remove the outdoors program topics I’m fine.

3 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

unless it is a parent-  child relarionship

You’re confusing the two-deep and no one-on-one rules. See https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/01/19/whats-the-difference-between-two-deep-leadership-and-no-one-on-one-contact/

42 minutes ago, bearess said:

 two deep leadership should apply to him

What do you mean by this, exactly?

Two-deep leadership is the rule that requires two adults at every activity.

Do your anxiety issues flare up just around the topic of camping? If so, there are plenty of ways to be involved without going camping. You can still lead den meetings and do other activities, and find a good assistant to do the camping side. Lots of Cub parents don’t come along to Cub resident camp.

If the unknown is the fear and trigger, try finding a good experienced Scouter who can talk you through your questions. Just say “Hey, I want to help my son and his friends succeed, but I’m really nervous about this camping thing. Can you walk me through what happens and what it’s all like?” (Or ask questions here!)

I would encourage you to also try dipping your toe into the camping world just one bit at a time. Maybe you go on a short one-mile hike with your son at a local park first, then set up a tent in the backyard to have a pretend campout, then actually sleep in the back yard, etc. - just advancing one small part each time and making sure you are comfortable. It can be overcome.

Depending on your exact situation, this article on fear and the outdoors may also help: https://www.backpacker.com/skills/never-fear-how-to-beat-backcountry-phobias

7 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

I think the "tone" of the article goes beyond your reasonable approach.

The article wasn’t written by Leave No Trace. Don’t assume that one random writer represents the organization.

One of the challenges my district is facing is getting our currently registered leaders to take the new YPT before the October 1 deadline. We don’t want anyone dropped or to have issues attending fall programs like Cub weekends, OA weekends, etc., let alone the eventual barriers to rechartering that will come up. It’s been a particular hurdle explaining to people who just took the old one last fall that they now have to do an all-new session.

What tactics and strategies have worked for y’all in convincing currently registered leaders to take an hour and knock it out and not wait until the last minute?

I’m guessing the day camp theme was Passport to Adventure, and these volunteers were encouraged to “camp it up” on the final day. During my time on camp staff, I recall staff wearing pirate vests and eyepatches over their Class As. It wasn’t a sign of disrespect, and I don’t think your staff was showing such, either.

2018 camp standards are here: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/outdoor program/pdf/430-056.pdf

I found nothing in a search for “battery,” “batteries,” or “acid.”

17 minutes ago, David CO said:

I wonder how many women raising children in single parent households have passed this attitude on to their sons. 

I wonder what your point is.

3 hours ago, qwazse said:

As it stands, the only thing that BSA4G is offering different from GS/USA, is the required participation in outdoor activity for advancement.

The other primary difference in my experience is the unit structure. GSUSA units are almost entirely dependent on one or two adult leaders. There is no CO, there is no unit committee. The unit focus can largely be whatever it wants to be. If the unit leader doesn’t like to camp regularly, the girls don’t camp or just attend summer camp.

8 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

You need to get on-board with the expected offerings, the BSA program will not be "specifically for girls"...the BSA program will be the same for Boys and Girls and there will be NO CHANGES to the current program with the addition of girls to the program

The FAQ (15+ pages I might add) on Family Scouting states that and if it says it is so...it is so

“Specifically for girls” does not mean a completely different program with different activities and ranks and the like. It means a program in units just for girls, which is what they’ll have once Scouts BSA launches. For example, Venturing - which covers those topics - is not specifically for girls. Girl-only Scouts BSA troops will be “specifically for girls.”

I’m fully on board, Jameson. I expect that in another 5-10 years we’ll see complete coed Scouting, and I’m fully on board with that, too. It’s about darn time we join the rest of the world.

I got to Life and was never elected. I was appointed PL of the new-Scout patrol (not how it should happen, I know) and thereafter served as troop librarian, den chief and JASM. I filled in as SPL plenty of times on campouts, but never had the urge to hold the job. As @qwazse pointed out, there are plenty of non-elected PORs that can be held.

There is also this option: “carry out a Scoutmaster-approved leadership project to help the troop.” If the Scout can conceive of something neat he wants to do that doesn’t fit into the normal scheme of things, then pitch it to the SM!

According to Scouting, the rules were developed by @RichardB’s team:

BSA national health and safety guru Richard Bourlon and his team of volunteers and professionals created these simple, clear guidelines to align the BSA with other youth-serving and service organizations.

“Habitat for Humanity gave us great feedback on their experiences” with youth-work restrictions, Bourlon tells me. He also consulted the U.S. Department of Labor.

In other words, these guidelines didn’t come out of thin air. They’re the work of hours of analysis meant to prevent injuries.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/03/09/check-the-bsas-tool-use-policy-before-your-next-service-project/

Richard, not to put you on the spot, but do you have insight into this particular rule?

I’m sure that this forum has some great examples of public Scouting display events - booth shows, arena displays, Scoutoramas, etc. So let’s see them! What does your unit, district, or council do to spread the word about Scouting?

Side note: I’m also curious if anyone knows more about the “Display Award, No. 7119,” that’s referred to in the Activities and Civic Service Committee Guide. There’s no more information than advice to “make generous use” of it, and I can’t find any other references online as to what it is.

5 hours ago, Paperwork said:

the comments have helped me decide that I should not sew two Troop Position patches on my child's shirt. 

You’re right - he should be doing it! 😀

On 12/25/2017 at 8:34 PM, SSScout said:

Our three local Districts cooperated to host over 50 "vendors" and it went very well.  Museums, parks, BSA High Adventure,  COPE Courses,  the OA,  council and government things.   WATTA ROUNDTABLE !!

I absolutely love this idea! Thank you!

Whoops, resurrected again.

5 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I would think an organization of our size could do a bit better than a $2,500 scholarship when the winner is the best out of 50,000. $10,000 seems more reasonable.

NESA also does academic need-based scholarships at higher levels ($25,000+). http://www.nesa.org/site/c.9oIFJMPsGgIWF/b.9535031/k.8FA8/Scholarships.htm

It appears the project of the year award was specifically funded by the Adams family, and perhaps $2,500 is all the endowment allows at this time.

20 hours ago, TMSM said:

We provide tents, ground tarps, dinning fly for each patrol(different colors), patrol boxes will all the required cooking gear, small dutch oven tables, charcoal stove (we only do propane at summer camp),water jugs, dutch ovens. We have 30 tents, 6 backpacking tents, 5 pup tents and 14 dutch ovens. Every bit of equipment is marked with 1 of 5 colors and each patrol is assigned a color, this helps to reduce arguements when someone didnt pack their (stove, tent, jug etc).

What is your marking method? Colored rope or string, cloth “flags,” patches, etc.?

Off-topic, but just because I’m curious - What do you consider tents vs. backpacking tents vs. pup tents?