shortridge

4 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I’m surprised how many have said they have to pay site fees in order to camp. Do your local national forests not allow primitive camping? (Or are your groups too large for dispersed camping?)

Speaking only for myself, the closest national forest is 4.5 hours away, so a weekend trip doesn’t synch up. 😐  State forests are free, but we only have two that allow camping. State parks and council camps both come with at least a $50 pricetag for campsite rental.

3 minutes ago, TMSM said:

All of our campouts are $10 x 10 = $100

Does that include food, or just site fees + transportation/gas?

I perhaps should have clarified that I’m looking at a CO possibility that would’ve perfect but has no dedicated space of its own - it rents rooms at other facilities when it has meetings and events. I’m trying to get ideas of other unit meeting location options, as space in my area is costly when rented on a regular basis (like $2,400 a year minimum) or limited in its use (only rented during the business day).

I’m a big proponent of outdoors meetings, but we’d still have to have a backup space in case of inclement weather and in super-cold temps.

How much does it cost to be a Scout? I’ve been researching unit budgets recently as part of possibly starting up a unit. By my lowball calculations, it costs more than $1,000 to be an active Scout.

- National Registration: $36 (includes $3 insurance)

- Unit Dues: $40

- Summer Camp: $475 (one week at my council camps)

- Uniform and Handbook: ~$144

- Monthly Campouts: $385 ($35/month [including food] x 11 trips)

Total: $1,080

That doesn’t include camping gear or other commitments as Scouts get older and more involved (OA, NYLT, Jambo, HA, Philmont, etc.).

What else am I missing?

11 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

“A program for girls ages 11 to 17 will be introduced in 2019. Details will be announced later this year."

Implied in this statement was that it would be an additional / separate program for girls.  "Program" means something like Boy Scouting / Varsity Scouting / Sea Scouting / Venturing.  Call it BSA4G or whatever, but, to most readers, it didn't mean gender segregated units (troops).

Again, that’s on the reader. National never said it would be “additional / separate,” from what I’ve seen.

Thanks! I’m still not seeing any reference to the separate-but-parallel program that @NJCubScouter referenced. The language about the new program is very straightforward:

”Using the same curriculum as the Boy Scouts program, the organization will also deliver a program for older girls, which will be announced in 2018 and projected to be available in 2019, that will enable them to earn the Eagle Scout rank. This unique approach allows the organization to maintain the integrity of the single gender model while also meeting the needs of today’s families.”

If folks interpreted the line about “a program for older girls” as referring to an all-new program, then that’s on the reader, not National.

1 minute ago, walk in the woods said:

Check the FAQ and infographic at https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/

All that material is about Scouts BSA, and clearly states the nature of the program. I’m looking for the source from 2017 that said the girls’ program would be separate and parallel.

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

I don’t think the name is the real issue here.  The real issue is that there is actually no girls’ program to name - as BSA said there would be, last year.  It was supposed to be a separate, parallel program with exactly the same “program.”  (Though whoever came up with the exactly-the-same-program part apparently had never read Family Life Merit Badge requirement 7.a.  But anyway...)  Boy Scouts was still supposed to Boy Scouts.  Now you see it, now you don’t... no separate program, so there’s nothing to name... except to rename Boy Scouts to be gender-neutral.

But for what it’s worth, when we were discussing the name of the separate girls’ program (back before it was “disappeared”), I did suggest Girl Guides.  Somebody pointed out basically the same thing that ParkMan did above. I think it would have been worth exploring, at least.  If there was a separate program.

 

Do you mind showing me where BSA said it would be a separate, parallel program? I found this piece from Scouting which states otherwise:

“A program for girls ages 11 to 17 will be introduced in 2019. Details will be announced later this year.

“The program will allow young women to work toward — and earn —Scouting’s highest honor, the Eagle Scout Award.

“The requirements will be the same for young men and young women. Young women shouldn’t get — and don’t want — watered-down requirements.”

Source: https://scoutingmagazine.org/2017/12/bsa-invites-girls/

You might get some odd looks at your blue shoulder loops, but who cares? If you can find something to support your Lodge and Chapter that doesn’t take away from your child or the pack - even as simple as attending one induction/service weekend a year and helping on a trail crew - then that’s a benefit to the Order and to Scouting. A lot of members wear the flap for doing a lot less.

I’m looking for some ideas and insights. If your CO does not have meeting space that it provides your unit, where do you meet and why/how? Where do you store troop gear?

@Terasec, trying to parse out what you’re saying is a little difficult. You don’t seem to want any girls anywhere at a camp that they might come in contact with your Cub Scout pack, and the same for female leaders. Is that accurate?

9 hours ago, Terasec said:

Bsa scout camps are now coed 

so even having all boy pack you are forced to integrate at bsa camps

No unit is forced to integrate. Associate, yes; integrate, no.

Camps have been coed since the days of the old Exploring program, pre-Venturing. That’s nothing new.

9 hours ago, Terasec said:

the mommy and me approach of bsa is a failure

So it’s been failing since 1936, when Den Mothers became a thing?

Barry, you can assume whatever you want about my motivation, but you’ll still be wrong.

I was frankly shocked to see a Scouter express the opinion that certain types of families are inferior to the traditional heterosexual two-parent nuclear family. Considering that nearly a third of children in America do not live with two parents, that’s a pretty broad brush to paint potential members’ families with. I am genuinely curious how someone with those opinions would react if a nontraditional family - remember, he regards them as inferior - approached their unit or asked them about Scouting.

I’m simply using the words of the poster:  

“Well aren't they inferior?

...

but generally speaking single parent families are a real shame.  Nothing wrong or shameful about them...hey, it happens.... and it is awesome that one parent goes that extra mile to raise the kids....but they are a sad situation and should not be looked at as a good goal to shoot for....IMHO.

I guess I feel the same about "non traditional families".  Sure some work well perhaps, and a kid raised in one of those is much better off than they would be in a abusive or otherwise broken "traditional" family....but again IMHO it's not the goal to strive for.”

3 hours ago, blw2 said:

 

Well aren't they inferior?

No of course there are exceptions.... a family with an abusive father is better off without that father

but generally speaking single parent families are a real shame.  Nothing wrong or shameful about them...hey, it happens.... and it is awesome that one parent goes that extra mile to raise the kids....but they are a sad situation and should not be looked at as a good goal to shoot for....IMHO.

I guess I feel the same about "non traditional families".  Sure some work well perhaps, and a kid raised in one of those is much better off than they would be in a abusive or otherwise broken "traditional" family....but again IMHO it's not the goal to strive for.  And besides....you might even argue that in many cases Latin Scott's "rules" still apply in at least some cases, probably most as far as I know, that of the non-traditional parent takes on the father role and one the mother role, regardless of gender. 

...and no, in a healthy family the roles are most definitely not interchangeable.  I don't mean that in the ways that there are women's jobs and men's jobs.....  I do the dishes most of the time in my family which is a traditionally "women's job" & I'm a dad.  No, men and women are inherently different and both of those very different roles are healthy for kids...IMO

Since you clearly view nontraditional families as inferior, what’s your response when the two fathers of a new Scout come to join your unit? Or the two mothers of one of your PLs show up to help on a service project? Or a single grandparent who is raising a Scout comes to register the youth? Or what about a family by adoption - also clearly nontraditional? Do you welcome these families?

1 hour ago, David CO said:

Luke went from being an idealistic young man, eager to become a Jedi master, only to become a despondent old hermit who has lost all faith in the institution he once loved.

Luke was also the last practitioner of the religion, if that’s what we’re calling it. He had no one else to practice with, study with, or share ideas with. I daresay that the last member of any faith might suffer similar setbacks in their devotion.

The prequels, despite being largely garbage, showed the true Jedi community in action, from a governing council down to a school for children. But they also showed how any institution can become blinded or corrupted.

To me, the Star Wars universe is far more a realistic look at human and alien frailty than an indictment of organized religion.

I was a Cub Scout (AOL) and Boy Scout (Life) as a youth. I served on camp staff for five years alongside some great female staffers. In the OA, I was a Vigil member and served as a chapter and lodge officer along with some amazing adult Sisters in the Brotherhood. I’m getting re-engaged now in some council and district roles.

I’m also the father of a teenage daughter. She was a GSUSA member for a few years, but her memories now are that it “sucked” - too much cookie-selling and making crafts and eating popcorn indoors, not enough fun stuff. I’m glad that she now has the choice whether to join Scouts BSA or Venturing.

On 5/24/2018 at 4:32 PM, carebear3895 said:

Add a "girls life" if you wanted to be inclusive. 

That already exists, and it’s not from GSUSA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls'_Life_(magazine)

I’m fine with Scouts’ Life. It shows that it’s a unified program. All the content is already applicable to both genders. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Thanks, qwazse. The very idea is extremely intimidating. I think forming a Scouts BSA troop would be easier given the public understanding of the program, but Venturing is a new beast.

I was rather shocked to find so few crews in my council. And two of the ones I mentioned are camp staff crews that primarily exist on paper.

I’m a campmaster and a district committee member (brand new to the latter role). No current unit involvement.

I’m exploring the idea - very early stages - of starting a new Crew, with a focus on outdoor adventure, higher-level treks, and training / camp staff volunteering. My daughter is turning 14 this summer and has expressed an interest in joining. There are only 4-5 crews and one ship in our entire council, and the closest to us is 40 minutes away. 

Anyone who’s gone through the official Crew-founding process: What advice do y’all have? What are the challenges and pitfalls to avoid? Thanks in advance.

8 hours ago, qwazse said:

Hush, Ian! Sometimes even bad press sells tickets! 

Sons were quite amused to hear that I'm now assisting in a 2WSP. Son #2 scoffed, "Wasn't that what we were doing already?"

I've often told them that when they hear murmurs about sinners and publicans at their table, to check if the Master's seared nearby.

What’s a 2WSP?

edited - Oooooohh now I get it.

4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Well, that a pretty anti religious statement. Ironically it also suggests an exclusive program as well. 

So many unbias (friendly) words could have been chosen to make the same point.

Barry

No, Barry, it’s just accurate. Policies that ban and exclude people based on their sexual orientation are homophobic. It doesn’t have to be religiously motivated. If you interpret the word “homophobic” to be anti-religious, well, that says more about your religious preferences than anything.

My religion and the faiths of many people I know and work with practices inclusion, not exclusion. You and your faith are not affected by the BSA’s LGBT-inclusive policies in any way, shape or form.

I have no idea what other, better words I could have used to describe the antiquated BSA policies that barred gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender youth and leaders from joining and serving. What would you have chosen?

But I don’t mean to start an I&P debate. That fight is over, and in my opinion, the right side won. It will take a while for the BSA to rise past the old and misguided policies of years past in the public’s mind. Right now, both sides distrust the organization. But I believe that those changes and opening the program to girls is a change absolutely for the better.

Thanks to @FireStone for that great defense of optimism. I’m also extremely enthusiastic for the future of Scouting. My daughter, who’s turning 14 this summer, will have the choice of Venturing or Scouts. She’ll have the choice to join the OA, if selected. She’ll have the choice to pursue Eagle, if interested. Put simply, she’ll have the choice to join the best youth outdoor program in the country. And I can’t help but be all in for that.

I’m not knowledgeable enough to opine on the issues of membership declines, council mergers, or Summit debt. I do know that my family will become a whole-hearted supporter of Scouting precisely because of the changes over the last five years. If I was good enough for the BSA, then my daughter is as well. That is a positive affirmation that will speak to many families. And that, to me, is what family Scouting is about.

I really don’t think we’re going to see a cultural change within Scouts BSA to bring parents and younger siblings along. I think we will see an expanded adult leader base from the parents of new female Scouts, and to a lesser extent from younger parents who were opposed to the homophobic policies of the past.

This new generation of Scouts is going to be great and put us older folks to shame. I can’t wait.

P.S. On uniforms? I grew up wearing ODL and hated it. The more functional the uniform gets, including full neckers, the better. 

Cub Scout camp handicrafts activities in my experience have always seemed to suffer a little - either really quick, super-cheap options because the camp is on a shoestring budget, or they barely relate to the theme. National theme this year is “Passport to Adventure,” so we have the entire world to draw from.

What are the best Cub Scout summer camp handicrafts activities that you’ve seen done? What are ways a handicrafts staffer can help stretch or leverage a limited budget?

I’m in search of examples of top-quality innovative and creative Council or District-organized Cub program events and activities, such as

- STEM science days at museums or observatories

- Day hikes and nature programs at state parks or council camps

- Cub family camping weekends at council camps with organized programs

- Fishing derbies

What does your council or district do a great job at?