shortridge

According to Texas Trails Council (http://www.texastrailsbsa.com/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.aspx?orgkey=2998&itemkey=14780), the new neckers are indeed going to be on a rolling basis, but yellow will still be OK for Wolves. So there’s going to be some mismatchery over the next year or so.

I did see a local Cub day camp photo with a girl wearing the red necker, so I assume some are available somewhere.

It also states new incoming Webelos will all wear tan, leading to a phaseout of the blue uniform for Webs over the next few years.

If you need advice on how to write a letter, you can find that any number of places online. There is no official Scout letter template. Is it a ceremony? A party? It can be either, whatever the Scout wants.

I apologized in advance if my questions seemed aggressive. I’m pretty close to walking that back. What you describe sounds like a toxic troop situation, but your language and approach are not helping things. Consider the way you have presented things here; if someone brought these complaints to you in this manner, claiming discrimination and insulting various people you volunteer with, would you be sympathetic?

You have been given plenty of guidance in this thread. If you don’t like what you have been told, that’s on you. Plan the CoH, run it, and move on. I fail to see the purpose behind the huge amount of emotional energy that you are expending on this, especially since neither you nor your son are continuing in Scouting.

3 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

At this point, I'll probably do my own ECOH.  Just getting addresses and names of scouts in the troop present and past will be difficult because heck.... the world isnt what it was 30 years ago.  lol  I'll have to rely on the SM.

So I have to ask this. Apologies in advance if it comes across as overly aggressive.

Is this your CoH? Or is it your son’s?

What does your son want?

Why is your son not taking the lead in organizing it, if a CoH is what he wants?

What is your motivation in pursuing this and seeking to force the troop to do something?

Are you driven by what your son truly wants, or by your own desire to avenge a perceived insult to your child and family by the troop?

Why does your son not reach out to his friends and former patrolmates for their addresses and contacts for the invitations?

If he’s living at home, why did your son wait nine months to reach out again about a CoH?

You seem intent to pursue a scorched-Earth approach with this. The claims of possible discrimination and the immediate backing off when questioned also raise a lot of issues. What do you see as the real endgame? What does your son want to be the endgame?

It might be best for your family to cook up some hot dogs and burgers for your son and his friends, do a brief informal ceremony, and move on with your lives.

Can you tell if this is typical for his cohort or patrol? Perhaps the troop just doesn’t put a huge emphasis on advancement in the first year. And that’s OK.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, nor would I be pushing him. As he matures, conversations with adults will become easier. He’ll also see his fellow Scouts advancing, and that perhaps will spur him to get his stuff together so he’s not left behind. If he’s mastering his skills and having fun in the outdoors with his friends, let him be a Scout for a while!

17 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

What’s the source of the rumblings?

On 7/15/2018 at 7:08 AM, ItsBrian said:

I had followed every detailed request a scoutmaster or parent asked me, I would be ruining the program for others. If the counselor did handle the situation, the other kids would have had a poor program experience since the counselor would be dealing with a families personal problem.

If OP had spoken with a counselor - and it seems he did not - the counselor should have known to immediately buck it up to the next level. That’s all a counselor would have to do to “handle” this situation or anything similar. Really simple.

32 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Point of Order please, the Commodore never served on nor commanded a boat.....Please.

🚢 🚢 🚢 not 🚣 🚣 🚣 

It’s not at all pretentious! Be proud of your achievements and accomplishments. As a curious Scout, I had many conversations with leaders asking what their knots represented. If you spark the interest of even one Scout to continue past Cubs so she or he can earn Silver, for example, then that’s a great accomplishment.

If you don’t have kids of your own in the program, knots are another way of quickly establishing to the parents in your den that you know what you’re doing and have experience.

Congratulations, thanks for volunteering, and welcome to the forums!

27 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

IN hindsight, perhaps the dad should have had this discussion with the SE prior to camp so the SE could have a contingency plan in place.

How is an ordinary parent supposed to know who the Scout Executive is, let alone what they do? OP did the right thing working through proper channels by telling a camp staff member on the first day. The staffer should have immediately escalated to the camp director, who should have followed the written protocols to handle the situation. Youth-serving professionals in all fields have to deal with these situations all the time.

Welcome to the forums!

You need to call, not email, the person on this list (http://www.narragansettbsa.org/about-us/contact-us/staff/66599) identified as the director of camping, and explain the situation, asking what policies are in place for such circumstances. Email him a copy of the court order. Explain calmly that you are upset because of the two conversations you had with the camp’s staff that were not followed up on, and ask what procedures will be put in place for the future. It is your son’s mother’s responsibility to abide by the court order, but it is also the camp’s responsibility to keep your son safe. If that does not work, escalate to the Scout Executive.

With respect, @ItsBrian, this is an issue that the camp director should be fully equipped to handle and deal with. It would not have impacted anyone else’s program experience in the least. Many parents aren’t able to take a week off work and stay with their kids at camp, and to suggest that the father is to blame in this instance is simply wrong. It is not a family’s “personal problem,” not a parent’s “request,” but a court-governed custody matter.

Edited to add: Under the national BSA camp standards, camps are required to have written procedures on “Release of campers who are minors to a parent or guardian or to a person other than the legal parent or guardian,” “Methods for discouraging and/or distinguishing possible unauthorized persons,” and “Steps to be taken in the event of a possible intruder; unauthorized person seeking release of a minor; or other circumstance as identified by the camp.”  A parent who only has visitation authorized by the courts during certain time periods certainly seems to me to be an “unauthorized person” during other periods, regardless of whether they are seeking to remove a camper from the camp. See 804 at https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/outdoor program/pdf/430-056.pdf.

This article from the New York Times documents some sharp declines in American youth soccer participation. Some interesting observations and lessons noted in the article that might be applicable to Scouting: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/sports/world-cup/soccer-youth-decline.html

1 hour ago, SSScout said:

Saturday night , the sky was clear over the Chesapeake....

Was this at a certain Scout camp on the Chesapeake that’s really worth your while?

My dream is for a statewide Outdoor School program like Oregon’s. So cool.

https://democratherald.com/news/local/education/life-lessons-outdoor-school-opportunities-expand-with-funding/article_f922931c-3853-51aa-88c1-b7ac112ca55e.html

He can bring stakes and rope if desired; the OA team will advise him specifically on what can be brought on the Ordeal itself. Typically his pack will be left at a secured location, so he won’t get into “trouble” for bringing extra items to the weekend. It’s a fairly simple process and candidates have been rained on before; don’t sweat it too much.

Candidates generally have 12 months from the time of election to complete the Ordeal. In my lodge, there are opportunities in June, August and April; if other obligations prevent a candidate from attending any of those (like prescheduled family vacations, work or academics), I’d like to think that the lodge would work with the candidate.

51 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Short Ridge - I know I'm coming in late on this but I have to take exception to your statement that no one deserves a Court of Honor.  Every Scout - at every level - deserves a Court of Honor if they have moved up in rank.  A Tenderfoot earning Second Class deserves a court of honor.  An Eagle Scout?  Definitely deserves a Court of Honor.  That's a big part of the program - and should never be ignored.

You are absolutely correct, sir. What I meant to say and should have said more plainly is that no one is entitled to a CoH paid for and sponsored by the unit. I conflated the terms in my head. My general point was more to the attitude and approach of the OP. “My son deserves this” sounds awfully demanding and off-putting to many people.

If @malraux‘s timeline is correct, then I would re-emphasize that the former Scout should be fighting this fight for himself. He’s an adult and can communicate with other adults. That might also get a better and more prompt reply from others at higher levels. We’ve all dealt with special snowflake parents demanding things for their kids; direct outreach from a (former) Scout themself may get speedier action and a warmer response.

3 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

This may be some form of discrimination and if so there is going to be hell to pay.

I’m still curious as to why you think there might be discrimination at play here.

Again: Your son is not being denied anything. A CoH is optional. Your unit is choosing to not organize one for your son. They cannot deny it. Nor is it likely that the council will get involved. National will probably not respond, either. This is a unit matter.

Again: What is your goal here? Do you want to have a COH that is meaningful to honor and recognize your son’s accomplishments? Or do you want to punish someone for what you see as an unfair decision? I’m getting more the latter vibes from your comments.

35 minutes ago, allangr1024 said:

There is still something not being said here.  Why do you think there is discrimination on the part of the committee members?  Age?  Gender? Political persuasion?  Religious beliefs?  Past behavior?  Has there been ANY communication between this scout or his family and the leaders of the troop.  This is not coming out of the blue.  Tell us everything about the scout and the troop.  There is an animosity here that is still unexplained.

I agree. This needs explaining if you want better insight from these forums.

The CoH is completely optional and at the unit’s discretion. There are definitely some details missing here.

If the SM is refusing to do it, what do you hope to accomplish by trying to get Council to force him? That’s could create a major fight and lead to bad blood and the severing of relationships.

25 minutes ago, Mich08212 said:

We sat here for 9 months wondering what the heck was going on. No contact at all.

Why did your son take nine months to initiate contact? Was he not going to troop meetings during that time?

If you do choose to push this forward, I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your attitude that your son “deserves” the CoH. That will definitely turn off many people who might otherwise be on your son’s side. No one deserves a CoH, and as you’ve seen in this thread, the practice differs unit to unit.

I would also suggest that your son, not you, take the lead in conversations. He’s an Eagle Scout and can handle a mature phone call with an adult.

Also, there’s nothing stopping your son from holding a CoH on his own. Renting a state park campsite, holding a campfire with some Dutch oven treats for refreshments, and a simple ceremony is just as impactful as anything else.

20 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

More than 1,000 Boy Scout camps are in the United States alone, most of which are unused during the school year. Most can accommodate at least 300 campers a week. Assuming a 36-week school year, that’s 10 million camper-weeks of unused potential capacity per year.

I’m just going to hone in on this and go off-topic for a second. Councils in my experience could generally do a much better job of marketing camps as retreat, meeting, training and conference centers to the general public and businesses. The outdoor atmosphere could be a significant attraction for CEOs looking to do unconventional teambuilding or away-from-the-office strategic planning and brainstorming. And camp program offerings would be a wonderful way to reward employees with a day or two out of the office - go canoeing or kayaking, try your hand at climbing, shoot archery, go fishing, etc.

I like this sustainability camp idea and I hope it goes well. I’m much more of a fan of Environmental Science MB because it’s more hands-on and experimental, but the sustainability programming could easily be made that way as well.

Make it personal to the Scout - get a flag and take it on a tour. Fly it over their favorite summer camp, at the state park where he had his first campout, over the lake they learned to canoe on (that one will be trickier), etc.

That’s what I’m trying to figure out. We’re being told to look to JTE to help set our goals, but have no guidance on what the new JTE standards will be. I hope it’ll be a phased-in approach.

I agree that JTE seems like a paperwork-pushing exercise in numbers manipulation. But I still like to know what’s being expected or asked of me.

I’m working with a district that has had some membership challenges in the past. I’m trying to look ahead to our goals for 2019 and anticipate the impact of the Scouts BSA changes on the district JTE standards.

Adding girls will effectively double the TAY numbers. It’s clear that we can’t double TAY and meet the current JTE percentage goals; we’re having trouble meeting it now as is. We just won’t have many troops and packs in the first year to serve the girls’ Scouts BSA population; it will be a gradual, growing process to develop that unit infrastructure.

Our field service staff has said they’re waiting on National for information and insight on how that will be implemented. I would think that the goals will start low and gradually increase. Has anyone in these forums gotten any better intel?

41 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

If there was somewhere BSA could have done better, they could have been more open on just how bad the finances and membership numbers are right now.  This had to be done.  It's just hard to fault them for wanting to focus on the positive reasons for the change. 

As someone who works in public relations, transparency is a double-edged sword for an organization or institution. It’s *always* the preferred method to build trust and confidence, especially when you have a volunteer-based movement. We want our trusted institutions to be as open as possible.

However, there are times when openness has to be balanced against the greater goals. Under certain circumstances, it could hurt the organization by creating certain storylines that focus too much on the negative aspects of a situation and overwhelm the story we’re trying to tell.

National already releases its membership and financial data annually. I’ve included links below. You can get similar information from your individual councils. I’m not sure what else is desired.

It’s out there. We just have to do a little digging and be OK with some lag time. 

- Annual reports and financial statements: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/about-the-bsa/annual-reports/

- IRS Form 990s: Available with free registration at https://www.guidestar.org.

7 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I should add, this is the same family that on several occasions showed up with their Tiger and camped with the troop. Tiger has been a distraction and has interfered not only with the patrol in the troop, but other troops as well as since he was not supervised.

There’s “family friendly,” and there’s “this is nuts.” Unfortunately, it sounds like they’ve laid the ground work and established precedent for this kind of disruptive behavior, and that your unit leadership is OK with it. That’s hard to overcome.

So this is an 11 or 12-year-old? What reasoning does he give for not being able to spend the night in his own tent?

More to my way of thinking, what do his fellow Scouts say about this? They’ve got to notice. Anyone in my day who couldn’t do a night in their own tent and needed to physically sleep with a parent would have gotten made fun of to no end, thus solving the problem pretty quickly. Either the Scout’s behavior would change or he would leave the troop.