Sentinel947

Scouter99, I don't know if I agree with your arguements, ( I haven't had to time to read those works), but I want to take a moment to give credit where it is due. Your rhetoric is well researched, it is very well written, and it's refreshing to see that on the internet. Sentinel947

ghjim, I'd argue that Catholic groups are being persecuted. "Your morality shouldn't govern me" So does that mean States won't sue Catholic Adoption agencies when they refuse to adopt children to gay or lesbian couples? Considering Illinois already tried to force Catholic agencies to do so, I think the answer is pretty clear. What about Obamacare forcing religious employers like Hospitals to provide insurance coverage to employees for services that are against the doctrines and beliefs of the institution. Alot of Liberals and Conservatives claim they don't want to legislate Morality onto other people, but they always do. If you look through history it's a constant. Understandably many Christians who scream about being persecuted are just putting on an act, but that only makes it harder to cry foul when things actually happen, like what I mentioned above. There are two Catholic doctrines that prevail in these debates, and it causes the Catholic Church to do what it does. Perhaps, while it will never change any of your minds, it will provide a little bit of insight, and the bigotry and persecution card will stop getting dropped. First "Love thy neighbor" Means to Catholics that we have duty to protect our neighbors from sin. That whether or not they know it is or not, if we stand by and do nothing, we have allowed them to damn themselves. Which brings me to the second, if one is aware of sins, or other evils being committed, and does nothing, then they are complicit in those evils. NOW: that doesn't mean that all Catholics do this all the time. And as we've seen with clerical abuse, it gets ignored sometimes. But that doesn't change the doctrines of the Church, and it dooms the Church to fighting gay marriage down to the very end. That all being said, I was pleased to see DOMA get struck down. and Proposition 8. Less because of gay marriage being validated than the fact that governments can't use marriage law as a way to discriminate against people they don't like, and that should be something everyone can get behind. Sentinel947

I think alot of the skills weakness comes from the adult leaders to be honest. If the adults never use the skill, say firebuilding, and instead always use lighter fluid to start fires (theres a problem as well, adults starting fires) then the Scouts never get the opportunity to make a fire, with matches and wood. Many of the Scouting skills like knots and firebuilding require practice and repracticing to keep them fresh. I think many troops struggle with that.

Only time I discuss it is when Scouts don't understand why I go to the Catholic service instead of the Non denominational service. Or why I after grace at meal times I do the quirky Catholic things like making the sign of the cross. I despise the Non-denominational services in our council, which always end up being some sort of fuzzy Christian service. I feel bad for religious minorities (non protestants) who attend non-denominational services. At least in our unit, Duty to God isn't really pushed. It's supported by a few of our leaders being religious emblem advisors if enough of the Scouts wish to partake in that, but we don't really push it as Adult leaders in our unit. I think discussion of religion should not be a taboo thing. So much of the issues between religious groups (especially with teenagers) is they simply don't know what a Muslim, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Pagan, Buddhist, Hindu believes, and they certainly don't know what agnosticism is. These groups are complex and have many similiarities and differences. Especially in the teenage years where youth are still trying to figure out what they believe and who they are, Scouting can certainly help them discover that. However, Adult leaders who discuss with religion (Or he lack of religion they might have) need to avoid proselytizing or being condescending. Some of the best discussions I had as a youth was with other Scouts about their beliefs, and what they believed and why. I remember in my patrol having a Methodist, a Seventh Day Adventist, A Baptist, several non practicing Christians, a closet Atheist (He earned his Eagle Scout) and myself the Catholic. It was a wonderful dialogue, especially when my Atheist Friend learned that Catholics believe in evolution. =P Sailing PJ, I don't know what beliefs you hold, but if you are uncomfortable with the services, then you should talk to somebody within the council. Or do what you did and don't go. Maybe run a troop non-denominational service instead of the camp one? If you are uncomfortable and left out, then I'm sure many of your Scouts are too. I wish you the best of luck in whatever direction you go in. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

with my unit, We adults try not to have imput into their patrols. We tried in the past to create mixed ages patrols by administrative fiat, and it failed. So we've returned to just allowing them to make their own patrols, and we've seen an increase in their attendance and participation. My unit is about 50 Scouts. I don't think their is a right or wrong method to creating patrols as long as the boys agree with it and have fun. Mixed age, same age patrols both have their merits and disadvantages and a troop needs to do what works best with their youth, their ages and maturity levels, and the adult leaders ability to watch over things and coach the SPL and Patrol Leaders.

I'd say grade he is entering.

It's such a win for the Church. It's what my local Priest told me. "Through Scouting some of these boys with no contact with the Catholic Church will have a positive impression of the Church, and some with religious leanings but no church maybe become Catholic. If not, we've performed a great service to the boys in the town." Sentinel947

Then I will let them both live. If another admin removes one, it wasn't me. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

Qwazse. Would you like me to remove the thread in issue and politics then? Unless you think there is some merit to have two threads open. I'd PM you this, but I can't send them with more than 10 characters. Sent947.

My answer would be a combination of jblakes answer and Brewmeisters answer. I would also follow it up by reminding this young man that the troop loves to have him as a member and really hopes he continues with the program. Trying to conceal our own personal biases is somewhat important to this effort, unless the Scout asks us what our opinion on the matter is. Ultimately people will quit for both reasons on this issue, and all we can do as adult leaders is try to encourage them to continue with the program. As an administrative disclaimer, this thread doesn't need to become another Issues and Politics Thread. ok? Yours in Service, Sentinel947

Why does he want to quit. Becuase the gays are allowed in? or because gay adults are not?

Amen! Amen! Basementdweller has it right!

I had the honor to attend NYLT in 2009. I don't feel the need to pay a considerable amount of money out of pocket to relearn what I've already been taught. My first Scoutmaster went to Wood Badge and really enjoyed it. I've seen some get quite a bit out of it, and some get very little. Since I became an Adult I started fixing what I felt like needed to be fixed, and I highly doubt I could come up with 5 meaningful tickets in my unit currently. Perhaps when I get a little older, I'll do Wood Badge, but for now, at 19 years old, I'm not feeling it. Especially after attending NYLT only 4 years ago. Sentinel947

As I replied below, I don't think this is an enforcing sort of action statement. I'm going to proceed the same way I always have, which is to not really address the topic of sex. If a Scout is telling all the other Scouts about it, I'll tell him to cut it out. That's about as far as I feel "obligated" to go. Sentinel947

As far as I know, Scouts shouldn't be having sex has always been a position of the BSA. Regardless of whether or not the decision is religious in nature, or just good ole common sense, young people can really destroy their lives or be forced to make hard decisions by engaging in sex before they are ready. With my unit, if I know about Scouts are engaging in that kind of conduct outside of Scouts, fine, they shouldn't be regaling all the other Scouts with the stories about their sexual activities. I don't think we need to look at that statement as being some sort of action statement that BSA volunteers need to become the Sex police. I think alot of people in here are taking that statement a little bit too seriously. Sorry Merlyn, my comment is aimed at the whole thread, I just started replying to you, and then I started to ramble. =P Sentinel947

Vote went the way I wanted, the forum is fixed, good day all around.

I don't have an answer. I just thought I'd bump this topic so people can see it. Sentinel947

Want my honest opinion?. So many well meaning, but unneeded rules that muck things up. I won't call you a control freak though. I think you mean well. Nothing should matter with patrols besides making sure Scouts are with their friends. I’ve never seen them follow any other system you could try to force them into. Maybe Basementdweller has figured it out, but my unit has learned that friend based patrol is the way to go. Sometimes they will make age based groups and sometimes they won’t. Allow the Scouts to choose and live with the results. Hopefully tenting will be done by patrols. Most of their friends should end up in their patrols. I wouldn’t sweat it too hard if they don’t, but if most of their friends are in their patrol, it’s logical to assume they will camp as a patrol. My advice: My unit uses New Scout patrols which are helped along by Guides. The Guides are experienced Scouts who enjoy working with younger boys and like to teach. This arrangement works well for us. The new Scouts pick their patrols. Normally this ends up being a den from one pack mashed with another, but if they have friends, that’s what counts here. For all other Scouts, we let them choose what patrol they want to be with, and who they want to be in it. If the patrols get too large, we ask them to split into two. We’ve found from past experiments that went wrong that this is the only way to run things. It increases patrol spirit and cooperation. They form far more effective teams. Some Scouts will mentor and train younger ones. Some won't. If you force the ones that don't into patrols with the younger boys, you will get absent older boys and the younger ones left in the lurch. My unit lets no Scouts tent alone. And what is the difference between a 14 year old in 8th grade and a 15 year old in 9th? As for the unpopular kid, just don't let the Scouts move on until somebody volunteers to tent buddy with him. Three person tents are PERFECT for this. As then a pair of Scouts can do the right thing without losing tenting with a friend. (Again the friend thing comes up). The best answer to almost every question in relation to Scouting is "Boy's what do you think?" I look forward to this discussion, Sentinel947

Welcome! Nice to see new voices joining the discussion. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

desertrat, I do see your point. My troop has never run the patrol method the entire time I was a youth. Now as an adult, I'm pushing the patrol method to anybody who will listen. It's a tough fight, but I think the end result for the boys will be far more enriching experiences and is worth the effort.

I will continue my involvement with the Boy Scouts of America either way this shakes out.

Welcome to Scouter! Feel free to post in any topic, or start your own! Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

Lets keep it civil in here please. A Scout is courteous. So are Scout leaders, and that means everybody in this thread needs to ratchet back the angst. MB: good luck with your chosen action plan here. Hopefully the ceremony will be worth it for your lads and when they go to the Ordeal they will grasp it's rich symbolism and it will motivate them to better themselves inside and outside of Scouting. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

Glad to see everything went over well. I'd say you have a good grasp on what needs to happen. Hopefully next Monday evening you can bring back a report of another successful meeting. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

Good luck. I'd love to get an update from you when you get done with the meeting.