Sentinel947

To help reading, I put your questions in "" and put my replies in * Hope that makes reading this block of text easier! "Assuming the SM has done the requisite check up during the week and regardless if the SPL does his, if no one is prepared for his section of the meeting how would you handle? How do you teach both the boys the lesson? The SPL has the responsibility to do the checking up and the boy has the responsibility for program content. What's the best way to make the SPL realize that he needs a backup plan without making him feel at fault AND make the boy realize his responsibility at the same time? During the meeting and the after meeting counsel?" *It's good that your unit is doing what you can with trainings, that is excellent. I apologize that my advice was so textbook. You and the Scoutmaster recognize that your assistance with the patrols and POR's need coaching. I'm so glad to see you all want to use the Patrol Method instead of some Webelos 3 style "troop method." * *If I may ask a few more questions. What is the size of the troop? Does your SPL use the meeting plan found in the SPL/Scoutmaster Handbook? What generally goes on during your meetings? Now let me take a few pokes at your questions.* " Assuming the SM has done the requisite check up during the week and regardless if the SPL does his, if no one is prepared for his section of the meeting how would you handle?" *I guess my answer is a question again. What goes on at your meetings? Can you give some examples of what is supposed to happen? Who is missing their section and what are they doing? "How do you teach both the boys the lesson?" *I might just be giving the textbook answer again, but I think the lesson comes from having a bad meeting or two and the general improvements that come with them realizing they could be having more fun.* "The SPL has the responsibility to do the checking up and the boy has the responsibility for program content. What's the best way to make the SPL realize that he needs a backup plan without making him feel at fault AND make the boy realize his responsibility at the same time? During the meeting and the after meeting counsel? " *I would definetly try to have you or the Scoutmaster meet with the SPL before the meeting, maybe 5 minutes before so the two of you can make sure you are on the same page. After the meeting it's a good idea for the SPL to conduct a post meeting with his PLC. Just to give them reminders about what needs to happen for next week, to encourage the other leaders when things don't go so well, and to praise them when they do things well. Your and the Scoutmaster being at those Post meetings is a great idea, as long as the SPL drives them. (As usual he may need help the first few times) As far as back up plans go, do you mean a backup plan for his plan? or a backup for when other boys don't show up to the meeting to do their jobs? Sorry for tackling that block out of order. It'd be awesome to get a bigger picture of your unit? How many Scouts, what positions have are filled in the Unit? I hope you don't think I'm being condescending, That's not my intent at all. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

Yea, it appears it is, I'd swear there were people younger than that when I went to NYLT 4 years ago. I wonder when that started.

Boys need some guidance. "Boy led" doesn't necessarily mean "boy leads off rails, but it also doesn't mean, "paper boy leaders" are you the Scoutmaster? I assume since you refered to him that you are not, but it's worth clarifying? What is your role within the unit? It is totally within your units best interest for the Scoutmaster to give him a call sometime during the week to discuss his plan for the next meeting. Especially if the Troop is new or the SPL is young or inexperienced. After maybe 2-3 weeks of calling him to remind him about having a meeting planned out and coordinated, I'm pretty confident your units SPL will start doing things without the Scoutmasters prompting. If he doesn't, he's either woefully immature, or your unit suffers from "Webelos three" syndrome, where the boys don't feel invested in the program because the adults make too many decisions and the boys only figurehead for the adults. At the same time, this shouldn't be a permanent arrangement unless the SPL wants it to be. If 4 months into your SPL's term, if the Scoutmaster is still calling him to remind him about the meeting, then again, he's missed the "boy led" thing. The point of the leadership positions is to get them leadership skill and teach them responsibility. My other advice is: "STOP BAILING THEM OUT." If they don't have a plan, then let the meeting fall apart. If you continue to cover for them when they don't do what they need to do, then you are totally missing the whole "Boy Led" thing. After a crappy meeting or two, again, they'll realize the reason for making meeting plans and being prepared to execute them. Furthermore, make sure (again if you are the Scoutmaster) that you counsel the SPL in what your expectations are for the meetings. Perhaps this is something the PLC needs to discuss. Have you bought your Troop the Troop Program Guide? It has months of sample meeting plans and activities that your PLC could use to help make more exciting meetings. I highly recommend them, Lastly, has your SPL and other junior leaders attended an NYLT or NAYLE course? Those allow your SPL and other junior leaders to really see how a textbook troop is run, and their roles inside of it. When I was a youth, I went to NYLT when I was 15. Ideally you should send them as early as possible if you can, 12-13-14 is not too early to send them to one of those courses. Is all the Scoutmasters in your unit trained? That is also critical so that your Adult Leaders understand the Program and how it should be run. It's much easier to run the program the way the BSA wants it run than for people to make up their own versions on the fly. (I've seen a unit or two like that, and they lurch constantly between self inflicted crises of their own creation) This is an issue that is found in many units. Often times it happens when you have a new boy, or a Scoutmaster who doesn't communicate the expectations for a meeting. Often times new leaders don't really understand what it takes to run the meetings or outings and need a little guidance from the Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster to get them started. After a few weeks of that, the training wheels should come off, and the Boys should have a rhythm and routine to running their meetings and outings, and then it's important for the Adults to BACK OFF and allow their youth to lead. Koolaidman. I'd love to see how my advice matches up or doesn't match with what you think goes on in your troop. Anybody else agree/disagree with my assessment? Gotta love this Scouting stuff, Sentinel947

Nice to see another Scouter from the Council. Feel free to jump into any topic, or if you don't see it, start your own. Yours in Scouting. Sentinel947

Rjscout beat me to it, I have nothing to add. There a campsites closer to the program areas, but generally the ones like Lakeview are more private and have better views. If you unit isn't very large, you may end up spliting the site with another smaller unit. If you have any other questions I'm sure rjscout or I can answer them.

Welcome! Always nice to have a real introduction. Don't be shy to jump into any topic here!

Yes. Friedlander does a first year Scout program.

Camp McKee in Kentucky and Blue Ridge Scout Reservation in Virginia

I emailed Terry again for another update. Haven't heard back from him yet. I'll post here if and when I hear from him. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

BadenP: If you don't mind my intrusion, where do you live? I haven't seen this at all.

I agree this will be huge, but only if it passes. We still have the vote in May and I hear this is not a done deal. The conservatives are putting on a full court press to stop it. They did a much better job of getting people on their side to get involved and fill out the survey, send letters and emails, etc.. I saw flyers passed out at round table for example. I didn't see any flyers or emails from the progressive side. I thought about handing out a flyer at round table making sure people knew about the survey, but decided it wasn't appropriate. Maybe I was wrong and I should have. I agree. I did mobilization of some of my friends, but I didn't do any sort of activism with people at Scouting functions. Perhaps that was part of the problem. After I got over my intial disappointment, I do take Packsaddles position. It's a good start, and those people who are outside of the BSA need to continue their efforts. Those of us inside the BSA need to continue to put on excellent programs and be ready for when the BSA looks at this issue again. Which they will. If all the progressives drop out of the BSA over this halfway step, then the organization will never change. When I attend a council meeting on this topic, I will be lobbying for the passage of this proposal. One step at a time I suppose. Yours in Service, Sentinel947

If you actually have the ability to start a new thread, go for it, I believe none of the rest of us do. We get an error message when we try.

This is a proposed resolution. Does that mean this is the only resolution?

I'll just leave this here. [url=http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/proposed-membership-standards-resolution.pdf]http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/proposed-membership-standards-resolution.pdf[/url=http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/proposed-membership-standards-resolution.pdf]

Yea, My unit is up in Butler County. This year we decided to take a break from Camp Friedlander, but we'd been there for about 6 years in a row. Wonderful place.

I thought I was going to wear it on the uniform. It's tradition in among the troop leaders in my unit to wear the mentor pins. But I think I will keep it off the uniform. There isn't a proper place for it. I will happily wear it to church, and to other places where formal wear is required. But I'm not going to be that guy who takes it on himself to become the Uniform Police. Yours in Service, Sentinel947

Wow. Way to get that nice anti Catholic dig in there. By that I mean, that's pretty uncalled for. Respectfully, Sentinel947

Based on that, you have my backing, although it doesn't count for anything, but I'm very unfamiliar with OA procedures, since my involvement as an adult leader has been absolutely nothing. Yours in Service, Sentinel947

Mozartbrau: What you are planning is going to ruffle alot of feathers to start with. While the "Tapping" out Ceremony is awesome, it's not necessary for them to attend one in order to go on the ordeal. Unfortunately at least from my very limited understanding of the Order. If they lodge wants to have their own little personal fiefdom, than besides taking the issue to the Lodge Advisor, I think you are kind of at a dead end. Quite frankly, I think there are better uses of you and your boys time than fighting with some tin gods at the lodge. Besides why not take that $300 dollars and put that into some fantastic adventure? Something the boys have always wanted to do that maybe financially was a bit of a stretch? That sounds like a better use of your units energy and money. Ass sst3rd stated, there is no prohibition from you doing your own "tap" out. And quite honestly, the lodge will never know you did it, and since it's not a required ceremony, it doesn't matter if you do it. Only a tin god is going to get mad if your troop decides to go that route. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

I talked to Terry earlier this week. He told me he is getting a new client, and that he hopes to have it resolved in another week. I don't think that is a hard and fast commitment but more of a estimation. As Packsaddle stated, we sign what we delete, and we all agreed to "sign" our work. I've been having some issues with spam down in the web hosting sub forum, where bots are registering to hawk their products and putting up unverifiable and unsecured web links that could hurt our users. I have not been signing my work in that section. As both you (moosetracker) and Packsaddle stated, I think we've just got wonderful patient members who making the best of a less than ideal situation. I'm glad that many contributors here have stuck it out and soldiered on through the difficulties we've been having. Yours in Service, Sentinel947

I agree TAHAWK.

Ohio Scouters, have you ever considered attending Camp Friedlander in the Dan Beard Council? If you've been, what are you thoughts on it?

All I can tell you Is I emailed Terry a few days ago. He replied with: " I've engaged a new vendor, and hope this is finally resolved this week." I trust Terry to get the issue resolved. Eagle90 The give and take still continues.

(Disclaimer, I'm Catholic) I find that story disappointing, because I'd prefer the Church didn't do that to people. BUT, she signed a contract with a morality clause with a CATHOLIC PRIVATE school. There was always going to be that possibility. Honestly, if I was her, I wouldn't even consider returning to that school. The one thing that bothered me was the following: "Hale, a practicing Methodist, said she also hopes the reaction to her dismissal spurs Catholic leaders to reconsider their stance on gay relationships." What kind of reconsidering is she looking for? Does she expect the Church will change it's beliefs on same sex marriage? It's not going to. Even if it allows her to return, that teaching is not going to change. "The Catholic Church considers sex between members of the same gender harmful and wrong but also urges kindness, compassion and sensitivity toward people with same-sex attractions." That's the church's position, and she signed into a morality contract with a religious institution. She is, in effect an employee of which ever Archdiocese this took place in. I think it's a sad story for the teacher, Mrs. Hale. I hope she can find employment elsewhere. I think the move by the Diocese was very harsh, and sudden, and that's not very compassionate. As this pertains to Scouting, Merlyn is absolutely correct, this is exactly why "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" cannot work. And I think it shows what will happen clearly if the ban is struck down all across the board. Likely the conservative charter organizations will bolt. Which is why, at least in the near future, I support the local option. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947

Moosetracker: I sent an Email to Terry asking for an update on the forum issues. Hopefully I'll hear back from him soon.