SeattlePioneer

Observation: The lawyers run the world. And they are running it into the ground.

> Nobody wants to see me in a thong. Beleeeeeeve me on that.

I think Click23s link to the Commissioner's Fieldbook on removing a volunteer is an excellent one. There is no doubt that a Chartered Organization Rep can write a letter to their DE a request that a volunteer be removed from their position and that action will be taken. You don't have to find a replacement first. But finding ways to avoid or minimize conflict or hurt feelings is certainly the way to go, and the Commissioner's Handbook reference provides good counseling to achieve that end. I'm currently Chartered Organization Rep and Pack Committee Member. Our Chartered Organization is a Catholic parish, and on Scout Sunday our pack and Scouting received recognition during Mass. After the service, I spoke with a woman who had been a Den Mother when her son was in the parish pack --- he's 43 years old now. She was interested in working with the pack again, and as a long time and respected parish member, we offered her the Chartered Organization Representative position, which she accepted. I have her adult application and YPT certification to turn in at our District Committee Meeting tonight. So my days of having the power to FIRE unit volunteers are numbered! Personally I consider this a miracle, with God providing us with a very valuable new leader for the pack. One of the benefits of respecting Scout Sunday.

I'm a Unit Commissioner for a pack. A new leader in the pack is interested in converting the pack over to using a commercial pack software package. This pack has sixty or so boys these days, and that is probably overdue. He asked for recommendations, but I don't have experience with this kind of product. Who can offer up their experience using this kind of software?

> The day a new boy becomes a Cub Scout in my pack, he is awarded a neckerchief and slide in a ceremony. I point out that the neckerchief comes neatly packaged in a plastic bag, and that we expect Cub Scouts to treat their uniform with respect, and to keep it neat and clean. The parents help their boys put on the neckerchief and slide. I explain that the new Cub Scout is now "in uniform," and that while we encourage boys to wear a complete uniform, the family can decide about adding to the uniform they NOW HAVE. Some boys just wear their neckerchief and slide to meetings for months. For neckerchiefs I find an attractive bedsheet at a thrift shop and cut twenty plus neckerchiefs out of one bedsheet the last time I did that task. For slide I cut sections out of a tree branch, and then drill a hole in it with a spade bit. I usually spread 15-20 neckerchief slides out and boys get to choose a slide that appeals to them. I like one with a little twig on the side, which gives it a little character to my way of thinking. I also point out to boys that they can decorate their new neckerchief any way they wish. I have mine decorated with a piece of a Cub Scout recruiting door hanger that says "Join Cub Scouts" with the cartune Cub Scout animals pictured on it. And yes, I wear that neckerchief at all Scouting functions where uniforming is expected. When I was awarded the Silver Beaver a week ago, I wore my Pack neckerchief cut from a bedsheet and left the Wood Badge neckerchief at home.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

The best part of the thread so far has been certain posters who have stridently maintained that AHG is extremist, intolerant and Bad Christians. We have the classic case of the pots calling the kettle black. I'm sorry to see the discussion mature in that way, but that's life. The net result for me after pickling AHG in this brine for nearly 300 posts is that that they seem like a fine organization and a suitable partner for a Cub Scout pack that might want to have a program to offer girls. In particular, they don't appear to have the prejudice against participation by men and fathers that appears to characterize GSUSA these days. I was contacted by a pack leader in north Seattle that has that kind of arrangement, and I'd like to talk with him. And I'd plan to clear the idea with the head of the Seattle Archdiocese Catholic Committee on Scouting, although their website appears to endorse AHG. http://seattleoyyam.org/programs/catholic-scouting/catholic-committee-on-scouting So checking out AHG in more detail seems like the right thing to do, but I see nothing in this discussion that is a reason to avoid AHG.

I took Wood Badge in 1985. Shortly before the dealine for completing my ticket, I was contacted by a Wood Badge staffer and verified that I had completed all the ticket items. After that.... nothing. In 2004 I got back into Scouting. After two or three years, I started making inquiries about getting the Wood Badge paperwork completed and getting beaded. About 2007 or so, one of the Wood Badge staffers still active in the district dug out his old paperwork verifying that I had completed the requirements and arranged a beading ceremony, which I appreciated a good deal. So the beading ceremony took place something like 22 years after the date of the course!

When I took BALOO, we had a trainer who discussed the various kinds of Cub Scout Pack camping, but didn't have a clear idea of what they were talking about, creating confusion among those in the audience. I and a couple of other people cross examined the trainer in detail to try to understand the rules. This made things very tough for the trainer, who was eventually bailed out by a clear explanation from the District Training Chair. After I thought about that for a few days, I was sorry for being that tough on the trainer. They may never have returned to to help out in the future over a bad experience like that. It's easy enough to be wrong, or confused about details of policies. I hope if I get caught out like that I remember to say, "I don't know, but I'll check on that and get back to you."

I'm guessing that the key personality characteristic for District Executives is to enjoy being flogged. If you enjoy being flogged, everything else will probably fall into place.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> I don't doubt that for a minute. "Ingrown" is the word that occurs to me. That seems like a formula for excessively stultifying and unimaginative leadership. Do we see any of that among Council Executives? Being a Council Executive is mostly about providing effective and imaginative leadership for the council as a whole. If a top Boeing executive can be tapped to take over leadership of Ford Motor Company, I'll just bet that talented executive that haven't spent decades on the grind from DE could do the job, and perhaps with a lot of flare if the right person is chosen. When problems develop in Councils, the usual National solution seems to be to close the council and merge it with another council. My bias would be to keep the council open and find a really talented Council Executive to revitalize the program. If National is poverty stricken of those kinds of people, Councils should be free to check out who is available who might be able to do the job.

Hello Skeptic, You and others who don't have Commissioners assigned to your unit might want to ask you District Commissioner to assign a Commissioner to you. If you don't know who that is, you can ask your District Executive to forward a request to the District Commissioner for you. Unit Commissioners don't grow on trees, an most districts don't have the Commissioners they need. But this could be a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease --- a request might mean your unit would be assigned someone who is available.

The implication of this thread is that councils can only hire Scouting Professionals from lists of people approved by National? Is that right? I would presume that would have to be a part of charter rules, a contract or some such thing. What specific mechanism enforces that practice. So if a council wants to hire a talented local businessperson as a Council Executive, they can't do so? What is the opinion of these practices by council leaders and Professionals?

I attend the Catholic church services at the parish which charters my pack for Scout Sunday each year. The 60ish Priest always endorses Scouting by noting that "I was a Boy Scout when I was a boy, and I turned out OK." I think we have Baden P again swinging wildly with his last post.

I just received approval by the District Commissioner to be the UC for the pack I discussed a couple of posts ago. So I'm a stealth Unit Commissioner no more!

It would be amusing if it weren't pathetic to see experienced Scouters nitpicking AHG and LDS because they are religious groups that don't meet the exacting religious standards of those Scouters. And it's especially amusing when those Scouter's complain that these groups aren't "tolerant" enough!

First of all, it's disgusting that BSA has rules that are so complex that few volunteers are going to be able to understand them well enough to be able to follow them reliably. That puts the nitpickers and lawyers in charge of the program. Frankly, I don't understand these rules and I can't rely on statements in this forum to be reliable either.

My Cub Pack meets Mondays from 6:30-7:30 PM. A Scout Troop also meets Monday a half mile or so away. When the Cub Scout meeting is over, I often stop buy and catch the end of the Troop meeting. I'm pretty well acquainted with the adult leaders. Monday I asked one of the adult leaders if they had ever been visited by a Unit Commissioner. He said no, not to his knowledge. In fact, I AM a Unit Commissioner, and I've been turning in my visits on the Unit Visitation Tracking system on MyScouting,org. Any UC can turn in a report on any district unit they have visited. Yesterday I e-mailed my District Commissioner suggesting that I be the "official" UC for this Scout Troop, which would be my second "official" unit in addition to a Cub Pack I've been commissioner for since 2004. (I'm UC for one Pack, and Chartered Organization Rep for a second pack, the one that meets on Mondays.) So you might not know when a UC has made a visit!

I do see some evidence of a satanic cult in this thread, but it's not AHG.

Are we shooting for the record number of posts in a thread?

> Requirement 6. Describe a method for rendering whale blubber into biodiesel fuel.

Well Baden P, You are certainly welcome to continue supporting GSUSA. I keep hearing negative things about them myself, including negative posts on this thread. The negative things I've heard on this thread, such as that they are disapproved of by Catholic leaders, is not borne out by my investigations so far. Your speculations about what Catholic leaders will do in the future is swinging wildly. I used the AHG website to make contact with an AHG unit leader at a Catholic parish in north Seattle. He called and e-mailed me but we haven't spoken yet. And yes, the AHG leader was a man. I will be interested in hearing about his experiences with AHG. I am a Chartered Organization Rep for a Cub Scout Pack chartered by a Catholic parish, but I am not a Catholic myself. I'm a Scout district volunteer working to build up a unit that was all but defunct a few years ago. The unit is working it's way out of problems. Leadership is much improved and we have our spring recruiting night tonight. As I mentioned earlier, we might consider using the resources of the Cub Pack to help get a girls program going for the Chartered Organization as well. So far I see no reason not to recommend that be an AHG unit.

In our district, we have a number of effective volunteers who make significant contributions. We have had district finance chairs who took charge of organizing FOS presentations and presenters. We have Camporee and Klondike Derby and Cub Day Camp chairs who run those programs on their own. As Membership Chair I took charge of organizing several Cub Pack recruiting nights and helped with others as needed. The Training Chair organizes quite a lot of training on his own. We have District Committee meetings that are reasonably well attended, but not as effective as I would like to see. It seems to me that IF a District Executive is effective in recruiting and motivating volunteers he should be able to cut the job down to a manageable level. If he tries to do everything himself, he will be buried. Of course finding and motivating volunteers to do those things is not easy. But I'm guessing that can make the difference between being a survivor and being out the door. Our last two District Executive were both survivors and were promoted to other positions in the council.

Requirement 5: (a) Provide leadership to troops in your district to field dress and package the edible parts of your whale. (b) Dispose of the remaining parts of your whale in a way consistent with Leave No Trace rules.

So what position do you have on your district committee?

Many Merit Badges give people a choice in meeting requirements. I'm guessing that the Whaling Merit Badge would require: Requirement 4 Do ONE of the following Demonstrate your skills by harpooning (a) any whale that can be legally taken or (b) a Sea Shepard ship or inflatable boat that might be impeding your ability to take a whale.