SeattlePioneer

Hello DLChris71, Excellent post. In my opinion, you illustrate a key element in a good Scouting program --- balance and good judgment among various program elements. You do an excellent job of discussing the importance of uniforming, but also the importance of other things in a Scout unit as well. The day a new boy joins my Cub Pack, I issue them a pack neckerchief I've cut from a colorful bedsheet and a slide I've made from the branch of a tree --- to keep costs down. As part of that ceremony, the parent helps the boy put on the neckerchief and slide, and I point out that once wearing the neckerchief and slide they are "in uniform" and that keeping your unioform neat, clean and worn in a respectful way is part of Cub Scouts. When I do a uniform inspection, I inspect whatever parts of the uniform the boy may have. If they have that original neckerchief and slide and are wearing it correctly, they score as well as someone wearing a full uniform, and better than someone wearing a full uniform that is dirty or sloppy in appearance. In Cub Scouts, we Do Our Best. That applies to uniforms as well, in my opinion.

Both Basement and Scoutfish make excellent points. BSA suggests that people be ASKED to do tasks, rather than allowed to volunteer to do tasks. If the unit leader defines the task that needs to be done, it should help to avoid the problem Basement raises of people creating dangerous program activities. Personally, I hope I'm on the lookout for fresh ideas. I tend to repeat good ideas too often until they become stale. I agree it's real easy to be too negative with new volunteers. They do need to be encouraged.

Dang!

Hello Old Grey Eagle, > When someone signs the adult leader application, I don't generally cross examine them about their belief in God or sexual orientation. I've had Cub Scouts announce during pack meetings that they don't believe in God. I've just ignored that when it's happened. If someone decides that they need to proselytize against God or in favor of homosexuality, it's unlikely that I will be raising the issue or preventing them from being Scout leaders. In short, as a Chartered Organization Rep I have discretion in how I use my position. I tend to use it in ways that promote harmony and good will withing the unit. But it might depend. A candidate to be Scoutmaster who was an out of the closet gay would probably not get my approval. An out of the closet gay who was willing to serve as a Committee member might get my approval. If someone is unhappy with how I conduct that office, I would point them toward the Institutional Head of the Catholic Church that charters my Cub Pack. If they had guidance for me on membership policies they wanted me to follow, I would either follow them or resign. Ditto if the Council were to raise objections, although they are unlikely to get involved unless a Gay Scoutmaster is advertizing himself in the newspaper. So I aim to use good judgment in making appointments. I would also listen to the ideas and suggestions of parents and other leaders. If you're not happy with that, then by all means, talk to the IH or Scout Executive and get me fired.

> I'd call that a last resort. There ARE good methods of identifying and recruiting new leaders. Unless you've tried those, I wouldn't recommend dropping the torch as your method of finding new leaders. I've described some of those in my earlier post. I've made them work pretty well in several different units.

> You have to go pretty far afield before your council will refuse to renew your charter. If your council will issue a unit a charter, who are you to invite them out of Scouting? We all have varying ideas of how to deal with the challenges our units face and the resources leaders bring to the program. Our aim should be to do our best we what we have or can build. What we can do here is to share our varying experiences and try to use that information to improve our own programs and perhaps help other leaders build their own programs. That's my view anyway.

Hello Kit, Welcome back to Scouting! We have a good deal in common. Thirty years ago I was the youngest Scoutmaster in the district, and before the first of this year I was the oldest Cubmaster in the district, working to revive a Cub Pack down to one boy when I took a unit position 3 1/2 years ago. I retired five years ago and have made Scouting my main retirement activity. I hope you have a Scoutmaster capable of putting together a good program for your new unit. What kind of outings do you have planned, and is there a Camporee coming up before long you can take part in? Camporee can help define the goals of you outdoor program. Also, if you don't aren't well acquainted with parents, I'd ask them to fill out the BSA parent survey. Getting a detailed understanding of what parents bring to Scouting can be a big help to a Committee Chair who needs to find good people to take responsibility for various tasks that need to be done. Good luck!

Hello Danno439, So, what kind of program do you have planned for your Webelos Den? My personal bias would be to get in contact with at least one and ideally several nearby troop-s and schedule outings with the troops when they have outings suitable for your Weberlos, and to conduct some of your den meetings as part of Boy Scout Troop meetings where your Webelos Den would function like a visiting patrol. Also, I'd be looking at participating in District activities like Camporee and Klondike which often have separate competitions for Webelos Scouts. Webelos can be a great year for boys if the WDL looks for ne and exciting age appropriate activities for boys to do and avoids making Webelos another year of Cub Scouts.

Hello Engineer61, My priority is developing Scouting programs that are low cost to families. Personally, after a Scout has done summer camp a couple of times, I'd encourage many Scouts to do the NYLT training course, perhaps in place of summer camp. If I were a SM again and Scouts wanted to do an expensive trip, I'd be developing ways for Scouts to earn the funding to do that kind of outing. Some families are willing and able to drop a dime and just pay for such trips --- that's fine with me, but it's not something I'd go a long way to promote. Right now my Cub Pack is getting geared up to have families sign up for Cub Scout Day Camp. I've been promoting the idea of Webelos Scouts attending the Council Resident Camp in place of day camp, but I don't see much interest in doing that from the Webelos Den Leader. And so it goes. When you have someone who wants to make things happen, they can often do so. If no one is especially interested, not much happens.

Here one of the knots I'd really like to earn: https://sites.google.com/site/bsamedal/george-meany-award That's the George Meany Labor award for promoting labor and unions in Scouting and encouraging labor unions to support Scouting by chartering units. I have a strategy that could result in earning that award, but not the time to execute it anytime soon. I happen to admire George Meany and I like American labor unions.

A hundred years ago now.... The Great Titanic It was on one Monday morning just about one o'clock When that great Titanic began to reel and rock; People began to scream and cry, Saying, "Lord, am I going to die?" Chorus It was sad when that great ship went down, It was sad when that great ship went down, Husbands and wives and little children lost their lives, It was sad when that great ship went down. When that ship left England it was making for the shore, The rich had declared that they would not ride with the poor, So they put the poor below, They were the first to go. While they were building they said what they would do, We will build a ship that water can't go through; But God with power in hand Showed the world that it could not stand. Those people on that ship were a long ways from home, With friends all around they did n't know that the time had come; Death came riding by, Sixteen hundred had to die. While Paul was sailing his men around, God told him that not a man should drown; If you trust and obey, I will save you all to-day. You know it must have been awful with those people on the sea, They say that they were singing, "Nearer My God to Thee." While some were homeward bound, Sixteen hundred had to drown.

I'd probably look for an alternative place to do the outing. Choosing not to do an outing because of hazardous weather conditions in the area is one of the responsibilities of a leader.

Sounds like he's still a beginner, but mainly needs MORE PRACTICE!

Knots or not knots, that is the perpetual question. Personally, I take a measure of pride in earning knots and I allow them to shape my behavior to some extent in order to complete all the requirements. And I encourage unit leaders to complete knot requirements by handing out sheets describing requirements. I have a folder with the requirements for many of the common knots so it's easy for me to hand those out. I also pass that folder around at District Committee and District Commissioner meetings and encourage people to take sheets for people they'd like to encourage to complete a knot and get an award. It might encourage some people to get a uniform to wear the knot on. In short, it's a small but useful method to reward leaders and to encourage them to do a quality job. The Tiger Cub Den Leader, Cub Scout Den Leader and Webelos Den Leader are different positions. Someone who does them all would need to complete three leader specific courses. My preference would be to keep the separate awards, and personally one of the knots I value the most is the Tiger Cub Den Leader knot. That's my experience, anyway.

I am always evaluating new parents and current parents for their abilities to do various tasks. I aim to offload tasks as soon as possible once I identify a likely prospect. I prefer to start by asking people to do easy tasks to see if they actually do the work that needs to be done. If they do, I look for another job for them to do. And it's always best to ask people to do a job, not to volunteer. Ideally, you ask the best person to do a job that needs to be done, or at least a person who is likely to be a competent person.

> Umm. I haven't seen anyone post on this thread that they are in any way opposed to uniforming as a method of Scouting, let alone a "faction." It's a question of how you use the uniforming method in your unit. I've described how I do that several times in this thread, with widely variable results.

I'm told that in theory the Pope would be entitled to have doubts about the existence of God. I would suppose that the typical agnostic or even atheist might have doubts about the non existence of God. If someone wants to get up at a Troop or Pack Meeting a give a lecture about Why There Is No God, I would not sign off on an Adult Leader App for them in my position as COR. But otherwise, people are entitled to their doubts as far as I'm concerned. I tend to categorize atheists as being either tolerant atheists or intolerant atheists. Tolerant atheists don't make it their business to convert others to their faith. Intolerant atheists do make it their business to convert others to their faith. I would probably not have occasion to discuss religion with a pack leader who was a tolerant atheist.

I'd start by recruiting one or two Assistant Cubmasters. Once you have those in place and have cut the job down to a manageable level, recruiting a Cubmaster ought to be practical. Also, look at the issues you are doing as Cubmaster that should be done by others, and start offloading those responsibilities. If the pack is functioning properly, being Cubmaster should be a lot easier than being a den leader. Also, I'd attach your Webelos Den to various Scout Troops to participate in suitable Troop Outings, Camporee, Klondike or whatever. You really needn't meet with the pack unless it suits your plans. Also, if your council has a resident Cub Scout Camp, I'd consider taking the 1st and second year Webelos Dens to that. If your pack hasn't done that, it would be a new experience for your Webelos, and NEW, FRESH, EXCITING experiences are what a quality Webelos program should be about. Recycling events the boys have done several times is not the preferred practice unless the boys are really HOT to do them again.

One thing to look for is to make camping experiences fun for adults. If adults lack camping skills or equipment, you need to make sure those issues are dealt with. Having an experienced leader and camper invite a new parent along for a fun experience, and making it fun for new campers might be a good way to go. In Cub Scouts, I emphasize making bedrolls from regular sheets, blankets and pillows. Sleeping bags really aren't needed for the Cub Scout campouts I do. When explaining how to do bedrolls I relate how mountain men, soldiers and explorers used such equipment to make it an adventure, and I'll often offer a token "Mountain Man" award for those who use bedrolls. This makes using a bedroll an adventure for Cub Scouts rather than mom and dad being pressured to buy sleeping bags. I use a bedroll myself to support this kind of value.

Hello Packsaddle, As a district Membership Chair, my experience supports your conclusions completely, and it's surely why most recruiting done by district executives is aimed at Cub Scouts. However, motivated Scout Troops with good programs CAN and SHOULD be devising effective ways to recruit new non Cub Scouts, and this can be done in my experience. The most efficient method in my experience is to schedule a Cub and Boy Scout Recruiting night at the same or similar times. When recruiting Cub Scouts I visit elementary schools during lunch to invite boys to the Cub Scout recruiting night. It's a small additional effort to talk to 5th graders in the spring time and invite them to a Boy Scout recruiting night held at the same or a similar time and place. 5th graders are ready for Boy Scouts and getting involved for spring and summer activities and summer camp is a great and attractive program. Unfortunately, I find few troops willing to do that. They have mostly given up in my experience. I have repeatedly invited troops to do that and get few responses. Very, very sad.

Hello Irsap, Real world injuries are prime opportunities for Boy Scout to discover if they have learned something about first aid. Do they have the skills to respond? Do they have the supplies needed to respond? In short, are they prepared? It's natural for an injured boy to turn to an adult for aid when injured, and there might be occasions when I'd take charge of an injury, especially if it were serious or urgent. But minor and non urgent injuries are laboratories for Scouts to solve for themselves, in my view. In my last stint as an Assistant Scoutmaster, I did two or three exercises/games at troop meeting that involved "resacuing" a Scout by tying a bowline and throwing a rope to a trapped Scout to pull him to safety. Great fun! But then on a snowshoe hike, a Boy Scout on his first outing became separated from the group and slid about 30-40 feet down a steep chute with 3-4 feet of fresh powder snow ---trapping him. As it happened, I had brought a climbing rope with me. It would have gratified my ego to conduct this rescue, and indeed I discouraged another adult leader who wanted to take charge. Instead, I handed the rope to the Patrol Leaders and let them conduct the rescue, which they did quite capably. I'll bet they will remember that experience for years to come. Actually, having the boys successfully conduct the rescue gratified my ego, and still does!

Hello JMHawkins, Excellent points. I think we've provided some useful ideas to consider in this thread, but the real world answers require too much fine judgment to give a reliable answer here, I would say. The idea of working on the issue over the next year sounds like a good one to me. If the Scout has problems doing that on weekend trips and summer camp, that makes a decision on Jamboree an easy one. If he can do that reliably, that provides at least some indication of his ability to manage at Jamboree. Frankly, I've never done a Jamboree. My limited understanding is that it is a demanding trip with a huge variety of experiences. I would suppose that would place a maximum of stress on a person with a diabetic condition. Perhaps difficult even for anyone with an issue that needs careful management. Personally, I'd want to err on the side of caution if I were a troop leader.

> It MAY be that in real life you have a balanced view of Scouting. If so, it's not apparent from your posts. Other people posting emphasize that uniforming is one of the eight methods in Boy Scouts. You are only able to talk about one in, which gives your posts a maniacal appearance. An over emphasis on one method of Scouting is a weakness of some troops, such as troops that over emphasize advancement and are characterized as Eagle Mills. While this has been explained to you many times, you appear unable to recognize such things. Maybe that is not the case, but it's the impression you give. It's supported by your description of your troop program, which apparently also controls the pack program as well. To me, that STRONGLY describes an adult dominated program. But as I've said earlier, Scouting accepts a wide variety of different kinds of Scouting programs. An adult dominated program has many advantages, since adults can typically organize with greater sophistication, continuity and power. So as far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to your style of Scouting program, but it doesn't appeal to me. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

A good position for one of these new ASMs would be as Troop liason with the Webelos Den Leader at the 'ol pack. The ASM can take pains to invite the Webelos Den to suitable Troop meetings and activities, see to it that Boy Scouts volunteer to help as Den Chief or more casual volunteers as needed and so on.

I went to the Scout Shop yesterday to buy some new uniform pants. I didn't like the zip on/off pants, so I left buying nothing. I checked out pants on Ebay ---- nothing for me yesterday. I'll keep shopping.