SeattlePioneer

I'd point that out to an outing leader. Trying to intervene if you aren't an event leader would like lead to a dispute. Someone committed to knife throwing isn't likely to be easily discouraged, I would suppose. Another method might be to invite the parent and boys to a fun activity you are doing. Families used to doing more adventurous activities themselves probably aren't going to be anxious to stop doing those in Cub Scouts. Persuading them to conform to Scout rules without them quitting might take more tact than many would have. They might be families (Dads, I mean) that would be really valuable in Cub Packs or Troops. We NEED that kind of enthusiasm!

Personally I'm not a big fan of Space Derbies. They tend to be difficult to make work well in my experience. Pinewood Derbies and Raingutter Regattas work well. Also, search for "stomp bottle rocket" on U-tube for a great way to make rockets from a sheet of paper and then launch them from an easily built launcher, stomping on 2 two liter pop bottle. Stomp bottle rockets are a fine competition and inexpensive to do. We do our fall recruiting night combined with our initial Pack meeting of the year making and launching stomp bottle rockets. New families get a great family experience making and launching rockets with their boys and existing Cub Scouts are drawn back to a first Cub Scout fall activity with a lot of appeal. I made six launchers from some PVC pipe, so we do six launches at a time. Boys each get a rocket pilot license, and the rocket traveling the farthest on each launch gets a sticker for their license. Boys and parents both love it!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Hello Scoutfish, About 85% of Boy Scouts come from Cub Scouts, and inviting Webelos dens to participate with Scout Troops is a classic way of recruiting new Boy Scouts. Smart Troop leaders will be sure that they are friends to the Webelos Den Leader, who rather ofte n would benefit from program assistance from a Scout Troop. I have a WDL who has been doing it on his own despite my best efforts to get a neighboring troop involved with him and my best effort to get him involved with neighboring Scout Troops and programs. It sounds like the program you describe deserves an A+. Still, a lot of Scout troops need to recruit more non Cub Scouts into their troops. That's a lot tougher to do. The best method I have is to go into elementary schools right now, in the spring. While the DE and I are recruiting Cub Scouts in school at lunch, we can also talk to 5th and 6th grade boys about Boy Scouts and invite them to a troop recruiting night. There are a good many boys who are interested in that. Talking to boys during lunch is a good time to approach them, and at least around here principals are generally willing to give us access to schools. Unfortunately, I find little interest among troops in doing that kind of recruiting. I find that very sad.

Scouting starts with outings. If the Scouts decide on an outing they want to do, then plan the meals, shop for the food, get the gear they need together and such, a patrol and troop program starts being boy led pretty naturally. What kind of outing does the troop currently have and how are they run?

Hello Pack212Scouter, > Can you describe this in more detail?

I've never had experience with a large troop of the kind you describe. So the ideas here are speculation. With a large unit I'd try decentralizing the Troop and it's activities. Are there patrols that would like to meet on different fays of the week? Why not accommodate them? Suppose you had 3 Patrols meeting on Monday, 3 on Tueday and 5 on Thursday, each with an Assistant SPL and Assistant Scoutmaster in charge of helping to run a program that was common to each of those days of the week. Perhaps there would be an opportunity to branch out to meeting in another location for some troop meetings, should that prove to be convenient. You could even have separate Patrol Leader meetings for the patrols represented on each of those days. They could plan some of their own trips independently of the troop as a whole.

In Cub Scouts we are supposed to do our BEST! That goes for the Tiger Cub program too, in my opinion. A second rate program is going to be a disappointment for boys and parents. What's so tough about doing a Go-See-It? Being able to experience a visit to a fire or police station is great fun for boys. Absent a good reason, they are being short changed if they don't get to go. Uniforms aren't REQUIRED in Cub Scouts. But boys, especially young boys, like uniforms. I encourage uniforming. I do that by being in uniform myself. At a minimum, a Den Leader can spend $10 for a Tiger Cub Orange sweatshirt and I'd be glad to reimburse them from Packs funds for that. When a new Scout joins my pack, I have colorful neckerchiefs I've cut from a bedsheet bought at a thrift shop. I got twenty out of a $5 bedsheet the last time I did that. The only tool I use to do that is a reasonably sharp butcher knife. I cut sections out of a tree branch with a circular saw for neckerchief slides and drill a hole in them with a spade bit. So when the boy enters the pack, we have a ceremony. The boy and his parent comes up to be introduced to the den or pack. The boy gets a neckerchief neatly packed in a plastic baggie. I point out that the neckerchief is neat and clean. I explain that in the Cub Scouts we expect people to care for their uniform and keep it neat and clean. He gets to pick out a neckerchief slide that appeals to him and his parent helps him put on the neckerchief and slide. Once he is wearing his neckerchief and slide he is "in uniform." He can decorate the neckerchief if he wishes. He can wear the neckerchief as his uniform as long as he likes. I might add that I wear the same neckerchief and slide myself. We have a fall popcorn sale and families can sell popcorn and earn money that can be used to pay membership and activity fees and for uniforms. So a family that may not be able to afford a lot of Scouting costs can pay for Scouting by supporting the popcorn sale if they wish to do so. I think there are often ways to do things that produce a quality program. I find it pays to think about the issues and look for ways to deal with things that may be difficult to do.

Scout units vary quite widely in the emphasis placed on various parts of the program. So different Scout units each have their own culture. Among those variations include the degree of competence needed to get various requirements signed off. Different units require varying amounts of competence. You can point at this and that portion of the literature all you want but the bottom line is that units choose such things for themselves. The most you can establish is what your own unit will require.

I've never seen any OA activity at summer camp. Sounds like a good idea that could include a variety of good ideas. Personally I think it's a mistake for OA to take over a camp fire and begin conducting its own program. At a minimum, the OA program shouldn't be started until after the regular campfire program is completed and those not interested in an additional program dismissed.

Well, the real issue you raise is what can you do now. You are concerned about a quality program and you have another adult concerned as well. That's a good start. I'd start by organizing a quality Go-See-It. I start new dens with a hike and hot dog roast. The hike starts at a library where we get a tour of the library (requirement 1G). We stop at a fire station where I've made arrangements for the Tigers to do a flag ceremony raising the flag on a pole and saying the Pledge of Allegiance (Requirement 2D). We COULD arrange for a tour of the Fire Station (Requirement 2G). We take a hike to a city park operated as a gigantic pea patch, that provided a lot of food for the city a hundred years ago. We get a tour of the park and the Tigers do a farm chore as part of the tour (requirement 5G). The farm/park is only about a half mile from the library. I post notices along the hike so the hike is self guiding for the Tigers. After the farm chores are done, we roast hot dogs on sticks, after which we hike back to the starting point. Boys collect leaves along the hike for activity 5D. Of course you will need to design your own hike. I do like hot dog roasts. I like hikes that have several different activities to attract the interest of Tiger Cubs along the way not destination driven "death marches." If you organize one quality Go-See-It that parents can appreciate, you can organize more. You and the other parent can take charge of organizing this activity, and then start planning more, getting more parents involved. Are you recruiting more Cub Scouts this spring? If so, you want to get Kindergarten students and their families going on your hike and starting to understand the Tiger Cub program now, so this wont be a repeat problem next year. Have boys earned their Bobcat?

In my opinion, Tiger Cubs is the most fun year of Scouting and the most important for Cub Scout Packs to get right. And the part most often flubbed for lack of effective leadership such as you describe. The real keys in my opinion are good Tiger Cub Den Leader Training and providing a vision of what the Tiger Cub program should be like. To do that, this summer I will be doing my third year as the Camp Director for our Tiger Twilight Camp, done in conjunction with the Cub Scout Day Camp. This gives Tiger Cubs and their partners recruited in the spring the experience of a quality Tiger Cub Program led by an experienced leader (me). We have two evenings of activities, starting with the fundamentals of organizing a den such as making den flags, den cheer and appointing Den Leaders. The Den Leaders rotate each day. The Den Leaders are responsible for presenting the program for their den that I have planned. This year after the day camp I'll be inviting new Tiger Cub partners to attend the Tiger Cub Den Leader training, which goes through the methods of how to conduct the program. The idea is to have those new Den Leader trained, and with a vision of how those new Tiger Cub Dens should work at the BEGINNING of the school year. I realize you are playing catch up, but the program I'm describing is the best one I know of to get new Tiger Cub Dens started effectively. It's one way to avoid having the problems you are confronting.

It's a district award for us. The district encourages each unit to give out at least one Extra Mile award, but in practice units can put in people for as many such awards as they wish. You could ask your Commissioner (if you have one) or your District Executive or Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner (if you attend Roundtable) about your district practices. Also, if you Google "Cub Scout Certificates" you can find websites that allow you to custom make your own certificates, which you might find appealing. Scout shops usually have certificates that can be customized easily. It's a very good practice to be generous in recognizing contributions to the program, in my experience. It's really on of the leadership methods of Scouting.

My plan is to e-mail out Quicken reports that detail assets, liabilities, deposits and checks. Also, we are using Scout Accounts for popcorn sales, so accounts would be set up for each participating family and the balance on the Scout Account listed. That's my plan, anyway.

Personally I'm agin requiring 2 signatures on checks. It's burdensome and slows up payments. Banks will process checks even if only one signature is on it. My #1 security suggestion is to have the checking account statement mailed directly to a reliable Committee member such as the Committee Chair to review before passing it on to the Treasurer. That's a far better double check on whats going on, in my view. I will be taking over as Pack Treasurer as soon as the current treasurer makes time for the transfer.

If you visit Washington DC you'll surely visit the White House and US Capitol --- both BURNED by the Redcoats in 1814... A visit to Montreal, Canada might be in order. Visit the Americans who remained loyal and didn't fob off excuses for revolt in that ridiculous Declaration of Independence. Very useful and loyal in fighting the Germans in 1914 and 1939 too, rather than 1917 and 12/7/1941. Too bad that George Washington proved to be a slippery character and in league with those **** French!

> Wow, you WERE good!

At least in my legislative district, the joint slate of Santorum, Gingrich and Paul delegates is proposing to share delegates and alternates in proportion to the Presidential candidate preferences. So variations in preferences would be preserved as delegates to the National Convention are selected should this method continue to be used. We'll see what actually happens though. I'm told Republicans at state conventions can be real Party Animals!

Who has been a Camp Commissioner, and what kind of responsibilities did you have? A Camp Commissioner is an experienced Scouter who is an unpaid staff member at camp for a week or longer. What kind of responsibilities are typically given to Camp Commissioners, and what kinds of responsibilities are appropriate to assign to Commissioners? > What kind of supervision is typically given to CITs (Counselors in Training) usually 13 year old Boy Scouts serving a week or more as an unpaid staffer? In the camp where I was Commissioner, the CITs were in a cabin by themselves. I heard stories passed around about life in that cabin. I don't know if it was being supervised by some responsible person. If it wasn't being supervised, it should be.

Last summer I was one of three Camp Commissioners at a week of summer camp. There was one cabin sheltering young CTs, Commissioners in Training. I'm told that was a zoo, but I didn't have occasion to look in on them. The other cabin sheltered adult commissioners and much of the rest of the staff, not including the Camp Director and Program Director. The staff in the second cabins did little to clean or maintain their cabin. The restroom and bath area SMELLED after a few days, and was a mess. After a few days of that, I spent the time to do a through cleanup, and left a note saying expected the facility to be maintained in the future. The most experienced Commissioner remonstrated with me about that, saying it was unreasonable to expect the staffers to take care of their living quarters (They WERE very busy). Not being very happy with his advice, but taking it anyway, I removed the note and cleaned the cabin and bath myself the remainder of the week. Personally, I think they should have taken responsibility for taking care of their area. I could have complained to the CD, but I chose not to do so based on the advice of the other Commissioner.

You really need to describe the kind of things you are interested in in greater detail.

Baden P is again inexplicable: > > I am prepared to believe that some AHG leaders may be offering an objectionable program. If so, it's quite reasonable that Baden P and Catholic and other churches in the area might object to them. But rather than be specific about objections to program run by particular leaders, Baden P seems to me to have objected to the who AHG program in general over and over and over again. Perhaps Baden P can clarify his objections: what specific things have you seen happening in AHG in your local area to which you object? Are these objection aimed at that specific local program only?

> Interesting idea.

I tried scheduling two outing per month for a while when I was Scoutmaster --- thirty years ago. It didn't work. Most Scouts chose one of the two outings, which tended to make both outing weak for a Patrol outings. I was cannibalizing my own program, so I gave it up. But if other Troops can make that work, I'm all in favor of it. But I'm curious --- of troops having two outings per month, do you generally have good attendance at both? How do they work out as patrol activities, which generally requires the patrol leadership to attend and most of the patrol members too?

Most of the time, Washington State has had a caucus based system for selecting delegates to the national Republican and Democratic conventions. I happen to like that system and participate in it. I was active as a Democrat from 1968-1980. This year is the first time I've participated in the Republican caucus system, though I've been a Republican since 1984. The two methods of both parties are very similar. I was elected as a delegate at my Republican precinct caucus in early March. That entitles me to attend the legislative district caucus and Congressional district caucus. The Congressional district caucus selects most of the delegates to the Republican National Convention. So I'll have a vote in deciding who goes to that convention. The legislative district convention decides who will be selected to attend the Washington State Republican Convention. The legislative district convention will be held Saturday, and the chances are good I will be selected as a delegate to the state convention. The state convention elects several delegates to go to the National convention as well, and I would be participating in electing those people if I'm a delegate to the state convention. Last night I was at a caucus of Santorum supporters. Santorum announced he is suspending his campaign, but he wants to maximize his delegates at the National convention. We discussed joining with Gingrich and Ron Paul delegates to choose a slate of delegates to the state convention consisting only of Gingrich, Ron Paul and Santorum delegates which would send no Mitt Romney delegates to the state convention. A slate of delegates from all three campaigns would be selected, and everyone encouraged to vote for that slate. So everyone would be voting for Santorum, Ron Paul and Gingrich delegates to go to the state convention. If that slate attracts a sufficient number of votes, all those delegates would go to the state convention. If you like politics, this is an interesting process. Anyone else involved in this kind of grass roots political campaigning these days?

> You are a scamp, OGE! Isn't that BSA lawsuit still pending? 50th anniversary for "To Kill A Mockingbird" this year, I believe.