SeattlePioneer

Where is our curly horned African antelope when we need him?

Hello Eagledad, > Is that two den meetings, a pack meeting and a scheduled outing per month? We had been doing two den meetings per month or a den meeting and a pack meeting per month, (plus an outing and parent meeting per month.) Next year we will be going to two den meetings, a pack meeting an outing and a parent meeting per month in order to provide more program continuity.

Hello 5 Year Scouter, > Ummm. What I notice is the following about power over the district and council: > >> In my district, we have an annual election for the District Chair. It's a pro forma election of the candidate recommended by the Nominating Committee. The same thing happens on the council level. Absent a HUGE turnout of CORs, there is really no opportunity for oversight or challenging district or council decisions through this mechanism. I wouldn't be surprised that if a large number of CORs were to challenge an action of the district or council, they would get a hearing. But that would be true for any large group of disenchanted volunteers, and CORs would not have the legal power to overrule a decision made by the council Executive Board. That's what I see, anyway.

> Perhaps someone can explain in detail what this means. My district has an annual meeting to elect the district chair. It usually lasts about five minutes. The nominee is recommended by the District Nominating Committee and he is elected without opposition. I think the same thing is done at the council level. As far as I know, there is no right for CORs to attend council Board meetings. But perhaps I'm mistaken. Perhaps someone can provide an authoritative reference on what CORs can do at the council and district level.

The problem is that you will NEVER make some atheists happy until you exclude religion completely from the Scout program. If you tolerate atheists, that will be fine with some. Others will object to being prayed over or exposed to religious programs or content --- you are back to the same old issue of unhappy atheists complaining about the Scout program. The same is true of homosexuals. Religion is an integral part of the Scouting program. In my view it's a mistake to start trying to compromise that value. So don't start. If atheists are unhappy with Scouting --- don't join. Don't like it? Tough.

This is a self chartered "Friends of the Pack" unit. I imagine the COR will sign her application to be Assistant Cubmaster. She'll probably sign whatever other adult leader applications need to be signed until rechartering. I'd be surprised if the council catches this, but they might.

> All too often the Webelos years are done poorly by adult leaders. They are often done as a third and fourth year of Cub Scouts, but boys have done that and outgrown it. They need a program of den camping and outings done in conjunction with Scout Troops. If they get that, they will usually stay. If they don't, they will often quit. Too often Cubmasters and Webelos Den Leaders don't understand that.

Our pack charges $5/month for pack membership. If a family joins in April, they pay $45 for the balance of the year. If they join in September --- $20. We participate in the popcorn sale as a pack. Participation is optional for each family. If a family wishes to pay $60 cash for the next years pack membership they can do so. If a family sells $200 in popcorn, they get the pack membership for free. Popcorn sold in excess of $200 gives the family a Scout Account credit of 25% of the additional amount of popcorn sold. Scout accounts funds can be used for any Scouting purpose, including uniforms, Cub Scout Day Camp, Pack activities and Friends of Scouting contributions if desired. Scout accounts are kept as separate accounts in the Pack Quicken account records. Any amount earned from the popcorn sale is added to the account, and any charges reduce the balance. As Treasurer, I find this easy and simple to do. Most families in the pack earn at least the membership by selling popcorn, but those who don't want to bother with popcorn sales are free to do so. Our pack recruiting night will be September 12th, and we have a combination hike and popcorn sale scheduled for September 22nd so that newly recruited families have both a fun outing and experience with the popcorn sale right away. That way those new families get the experience needed to use the popcorn sale to fund their Scouting program right away. So we aim for a recruiting program that brings new families right into the heart of the pack program immediately. This also will include a reception for new parents at our September 24th parent meeting. It's very common for newly recruited families to be left twisting in the wind for weeks or months before they begin to understand the Cub Scout and Pack programs. We aim to avoid that problem and issue. What plans is your pack making to get started effectively with the new school year?

Hello Baden P, I was glad to hear of your council's experience. Never heard of that before except over rare and highly charged issues. Sounds like a model other council's should emulate.

Heh, heh! I'm right with you there, Packsaddle! Mitt grew up in the glare of publicity generated by his father as Governor of Michigan and a candidate for US President, but he might have been switched at birth with a baby from Mexico. This possibility needs to be investigated!

Nothing. Scouting isn't a grass roots democracy even for Chartered Organization Reps. In theory you could have a mass mobilization of CORs over an issue, but it would be a very rare event. Attending your District Committee Meeting is a good way to learn what the district is doing and perhaps to suggest things you might like to see, though. Speaking as a District Committee member I would be delighted to see CORs show up, and I would work to welcome them and help them with any issues they might have.

Hello Oak Tree, You have an interesting list of ideas. I'll give my own evaluation based on my time as a district Membership Chair since 2004, although that doesn't make me right. Just a different perspective. > Individual unit ARE great at doing recruiting! Unfortunately, a good many are lousy and poorly motivated at recruiting, just as you suggest. At my district Roundtable in August, I will be doing a model recruiting night, giving the Cub Scouts of pack leaders the fun of making and competing at launching stomp bottle rockets as an activity to attract unit leaders and to show them how they can use an activity to attract new and existing Cub Scouts to their pack. The aim will be to motivate pack leaders to take recruiting seriously and show them how to do it. Personally I think the Tiger year is the best year in Cub Scouts. The problem with the Tiger Year is getting the program started since it generally involves EVERY family being new to Scouting. That is often tough for packs to do, can take months to do and not infrequently results in a failed den. It would be nice if National came up with improved ideas on how packs can get those Tiger Dens started reliably and effectively.

Ho hum. Really not a significant issue. A lot of white liberals have lots of reasons why they hate Scouting, so they aren't going to join in any case. No one other than white liberals really cares very much about the issue. They will join or not join based on whether they are invited to join a program and their assessment of the value of their program to their children and family. Even a number of white liberals will join Scouting if they see it as being valuable for their children and family. Those who don't want to join for political reasons are no great loss, and Scouting is probably better off without them, frankly. The only critical issue was whether liberals were going to be able to enlist government to compel BSA to change their policies. The Supreme Court said no to that. I see this kind of publicity as being of zero importance. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> The COR will be completing a new Adult Leader Application for Assistant Cubmaster. When the pack re registers at the end of the year, they can either find a new COR or the CC can co register as COR. This is a "Friends Of" pack that doesn't have an independent Chartered Organization. I'm not sure if registering as Assistant Cubmaster would automatically void an existing registration as COR.

> If a particular OA unit finds this kind of hobby to be worthwhile, fine. But I'm not surprised that OA is struggling with membership when it is promoting an arcane program like Indian dancing and ceremonies. Frankly, that kind of thing deters me from being involved with my own OA chapter. The OA method of promoting Indian dancing and culture is not one of the methods of Boy Scouts. Perhaps the methods of OA need to be more closely associated with the methods and goals of Boy Scouts for it to be effective as an organization. Leave the promotion of Indian culture to the Indians.

> I agree with this. Most unit leaders are buried in their unit and have very little experience with other programs. Perhaps a feature of Roundtables would be an opportunity for unit leaders to invite people over for visits, or perhaps some other mechanism could encourage that.

Hello Chauman, > I see you have your own stereotype issues to deal with. Could it be that influences the behavior of other leaders towards you?

Well, today was the beginning of the pack's end of the Scout year campout, which was a fine activity. It was also an opportunity to try to sew up the leadership issues of the pack, and I attended the campout today with that in mind. I was asked to take charge of building a rope monkey bridge by the Cubmaster, which I did with the assistance of a couple of parents. After a very nice dinner, I had a chance to talk about leadership issues with the new Committee Chair and the COR. The COR offered to become an Assistant Cubmaster, an offer which was accepted by the Committee Chair. So instead of having a weak Committee Chair and a very overworked "Cubmaster who does everything" who was ready to quit with no replacement in sight, we then had a highly promising Committee Chair and a new but promising Assistant Cubmaster. Could finding a new Cubmaster be all that tough to do in that new environment? No, it wasn't. The person that was the Cubmaster's first choice to be Cubmaster refused the position when the Cubmaster was obviously grossly overworked. But the new CC sat down with that prospect and explained that he and the new Assistant Cubmaster would be partners with the new Cubmaster, and making sure that other families were taking responsibility for doing tasks that had fallen to the Cubmaster by default recently. Well --- that made the Cubmaster position a lot more attractive, and the first choice candidate agreed to take the job. Of course there are still issues. That's a lot of new people who will need to figure out how to manage the pack. But a dynamic new CC and a capable and enthusiastic Assistant Cubmaster (just took Wood Badge), and a promising Cubmaster ought to be able to sort through those issues. A LOT better than when I started this thread, with a discouraged and overworked Cubmaster who was planning to quit at the end of this summer and no prospects willing to take over the position. As a Unit Commissioner yes, I was rather pushy. But I had a good relationship with the discouraged Cubmaster, who was willing to try my idea of appointing a dynamic business executive type to replace a weak Committee Chair. The new Committee Chair was agreeable to checking out leadership prospects at the well attended overnight camp today, and agreeable to the offer of the COR to be Assistant Cubmaster. I pointed out to the CC that he was free to ask me to take a hike if he didn't like my activities, but he was glad enough to get some help solving a critical problem. And the CC and current Cubmaster worked together to recruit the best prospect to be Cubmaster. So was I BOLD as a Unit Commissioner ---- yes. Was I TOO BOLD? I'd say no. I took a few chances but they wound up being supported by pack leaders, and the result was a much stronger new generation of pack leaders whose main problem will likely be learning how to manage the pack in the months to come.

Interesting idea. Perhaps OA meetings ought to be concentrating more on troop leadership for Scouts? Perhaps at least some Boy Scout Roundtables should be planned for Scoutmasters, Assistant Scoutmasters, SPLs and Assistant SPLs. Have a joint program for youth and adult leaders at least some of the time.

Your interest and enthusiasm are commendable. I hope you have a great experience as Cubmaster, a position I filled for two years until the beginning of 2012. Does your pack have an effective Committee Chair to help you with the things that need to be done? Two things that will need to be done before long are to plan your program of meetings and activities for 2012-2013 and to plan a fall recruiting campaign to attract new families to the pack. Do you have ideas on how those tasks may be done?

Unfortunately, Scouting isn't all that's changed. Seattle has a public park, Camp Long, devoted to camping. However, you aren't permitted to set up tents or put tent pegs in the ground, because they installed a sprinkler system and you might puncture the plastic piping. You stay in, and pay for, cabins instead. And the park department charges for every little thing, such as the use of a campfire bowl. I'm headed out to Camp Long today to help a Cub Pack set up a monkey bridge for their June camping trip. But I'm not a fan of this camp. A Kiwanis Club has a camp they support not too far away, which has a variety of different camping facilities from a lodge to tent camping space. They make it available to youth groups at no charge. My Cub Pack uses the Kiwanis Club camp, as do a number of Scout groups and the Cub Scout Day Camp.

> That sounds fair. I'm very much in favor of families having the opportunity to earn the costs associated with Scouting rather than having that an out of pocket family expense. Wow --- that's VERY BAD behavior by the parents! I'd be looking for a way to make it clear to the parents that nothing like that will happen again. Off hand, I'd seriously consider booting those families out of the program.

> Interesting objection. Were I the MB counselor, I'd permit and encourage a boy to learn something about the Indian tribe he is descended from. Perhaps that would stretch the plain language of the requirement, but that's what a good Merit Badge Counselor would do, as far as I'm concerned.

The virtue of Scouting is that BSA 24 can use his own strongly felt values in his own troop, where they probably work very well, and others can use different approaches and values in their own units, where they probably work well too. On other threads people have bemoaned the lack of consistency between units in Scouting, but this illustrates why that variability is important.

Unfortunately, Basement's is probably the voice of experience.