scoutldr

While I am thoroughly enjoying the debate, I took the day off to do my "Duty to Country" and finish my tax return! :-( Here it is almost noon already! Gotta go so I can finish in time to make the District Meeting tonight. TTFN!

Busylady, I am thoroughly enjoying your thoughtful, coherent, and obviously educated posts. Welcome to the forum and I look forward to more of your writings! You can bring the s'mores next time! My concern is that the average Scouter, me included, while adept at teaching a Bowline or how to sharpen a knife, is not a Theologian capable of recognizing or determining when a Scout has met his "duty to God", in the tradition of his faith and family. Perhaps that is one requirement that we should leave solely to the Deity to determine. As the Scripture says, only He/She knows what's in the Scout's heart. All we see are his actions. If an adulterer holds the door for his girlfriend, is he still Courteous? Hmmm. If the faithful husband verbally abuses his wife, is he still Morally Straight? I think I'll stick to tying knots and stay out of the Judgement business. By the time we consider all of the possible permutations, none of us will remain standing.

We had a discussion at RT this week about the "Scout Spirit" requirement. One leader stated that he had a Roman Catholic scout who was refusing to become Confirmed in his Church. Based on that, he was considering witholding advancement (Scout Spirit) based on not doing his "Duty to God" as defined by his faith, the RC church. The same leader said that a Scout whose family was unchurched, but who professed a faith in a higher power, would be granted advancement, since he was "practicing" his faith in the tradition of his family, and thus showing Scout Spirit, as opposed to the RC scout who goes to Mass every Sunday, but was being rebellious about Confirmation against his parent's wishes. I had to admit to myself that this was a twist that I had never considered. My opinion is that BSA should clearly define what the requirement is (e.g., as busylady described it), or get out of the religion business. Just like any other requirement, it should be stated and we should not add nor subtract from it. It's not fair to us or to the Scouts to ask us to adjudicate it according to our own personal beliefs or ingenuity.

Congratulations, Mike! I did not used to be anything, so maybe I am speaking out of turn...I think your Beading should be anywhere that is most meaningful to you. Having said that, my only concern would be the time required, the attention span of Cubs, and would they really understand or care about the significance of the ceremony? Having been a CM for 5 years, I know that time at a Pack Meeting can be tight, especially if your Pack is large. If you can make it all work without shortchanging the boys, then by all means, go for it. We had a Beading Tues night at the Cub Roundtable. We have also had Beadings at Univ of Scouting. Beatings, on the other hand, are administered whenever needed!

I;m not much of a techie, but I notice in the last 2 days, my browser (IE6) resets the text size to "Medium" whenever I close it. When I reopen Scouter.com, I have to reset the text to "Largest". Other web sites don't seem to be doing this. I'm running a Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop. As my mother in law says, these things have a mind of their own sometimes.

"To me, the BSA call to "duty to God" (meaning earnestness in prayer, study of Scripture, confession of sin, and effort to "sin no more") is linked to the policy excluding practicing homosexuals through the Judeo-Christian heritage." I don't recall the BSA defining duty to God in quite those terms. The BSA policy is set forth in the Declaration of Religious Principle, found in the BSA Application for Membership. The SCout's duty to God is defined by him, his parents and religious leader, not by the BSA or the Unit leadership. As long as the Scout confesses a belief in a higher power, i.e., "not atheist", he is good to go. I too appreciate the civil discourse. What a welcome change!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

My response was tongue in cheek, in case it wasn't clear. This is one of my pet peeves...we do our darnedest to train Leaders and encourage parents to buy the complete uniform and wear it properly, then they see what's in Boys' Life. I don't think anyone should get their picture in a BSA publication unless they are properly and completely uniformed.

"as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America." Soooo, anything we see illustrated (including photos?) in Boys'Life or Scouting magazines can be assumed to be acceptable?

I think the "legal" answer is, as long as a boy is still registered in a Pack, he can earn rank. Once his transfer to a Troop is processed at Council and he is on the Troop roster, he's done.

Hoo-ah!

What foods Scouts really want: Hot dogs, hamburgers, french fries, pizza, pop tarts, bug juice, peanut butter, chocolate coated sugar cereal. What foods SCouts really DON'T want: Vegetables (except ketchup) and any other food not listed above. Seriously, though, after trying every other method, we have settled on family style with a self-serve salad bar and PBJ table. Some kids eat nothing but PBJ, cookies, and sugar cereal all week. Plus they can buy all the junk and soda they want at the Trading Post ($$$PROFIT!!!). But the goal is to keep them alive, not transform their nutritional habits in 6 days. I understand that there are menu requirements (balanced meals, daily calorie intake, etc) for an accredited camp, but forcing kids to eat what's on the menu is another thing. Not to generalize...some eat very well, some do not. In our area of the country, July is typically 95+degrees and 70%+ humidity. Anything that lessens the time we have to spend sitting in the unairconditioned sauna we call a dining hall is greatly appreciated, especially when uniforms are required at the evening meal.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Eamonn, As our esteemed colleague, Bob White is fond of saying (and I paraphrase), those who take the unsubstantiated opinions on this forum as fact without verifying them, are naive and irresponsible. As long as this forum is open to free discussion, it will be a milieu of fact, fiction, policy and BS, as all public forums are. It's up to the reader to sort out which is which. Perhaps we should outlaw OP-Ed columns in newspapers, as well, since the stupid public may get the wrong idea about the Government and our leaders. This country was founded in 1776 on the principle of Freedom of Speech. The forum owner also grants us a degree of freedom and it's up to him to change it if he sees fit. And yes, I am fully aware that there are youth members around. So they are not "Scouters". They are "Scouts". So much of the discussion that goes on is not something they need to know about nor are necessarily interested in, kinda like what goes on behind the curtain in Oz. Just like I am not interested in the merits of Lego containers. If you are proposing to limit the discussions to "Scouter" issues only, let's get serious about it. scoutldr(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Eammon, I respect your experience and have thoroughly enjoyed your postings and musings over the years. Your charming British accent is evident even in your writing and I am happy you chose to live among us revolutionaries on this side of the pond. However, I must respectfully disagree. If the host allows a guest into the house and the moderators choose to allow him to stay, it's rude for us fellow guests to disagree. They are far from "gatecrashers". They are admitted guests, just like you and me. Like the BSA, the forum owner admits members according to his own standards, some of which may be ambiguous or contradictory to the rest of us, not unlike the BSA membership standards. Like many have been told on this forum, if we don't care for the kind of party the host is throwing, we are free to decline to attend...politely. Perhaps you've hit on the root cause of our angst...the art of manners is being lost because people choose not to care about others' feelings or opinions. That's sad. Perhaps a valid BSA registration number should be required for admission? I agree with Prairie. The Issues and Politics section was started for the reason of moving the heated non-scouting debates to their own section. People are free to avoid that section if they find it distasteful, but I think it is no small coincidence that it is one of the most popular forums on Scouter.com. And, my opinion is that, if this is billed as a "SCOUTER" forum, that implies adults over age 18, who can discuss adult issues in an adult manner without risk of offending tender young psyches. At least that was my assumption when I requested admission. (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Do you mean leave Scouting or leave the forums? The rules you quote are those of the Boy Scouts of America, Inc. They are not the rules of this forum, which is privately owned and sponsored. We are all here by invitation of the forum owner, and remain here due to his generosity. Miss Manners will always tell you that if you are invited to a party, it is the height of rudeness to inquire who else will be there before you accept the invitation. Once there, if one finds people to whom one does not wish to be pleasant, the only proper thing to do is thank the host, excuse oneself and leave. There is no one on this forum that I would want to leave because of their beliefs or opinions, because they have caused me to re-examine my own beliefs and convictions more closely. That was valuable to me, even if I cannot agree with their opinions or adopt their lifestyle as my own. There are some I wish would leave because of their rudeness, arrogance and just plain nastiness, however. But alas, it's not my party and I am not granted the right to choose the guests.

I'll bet BP would insist that all BSA pubs be put on CD and mailed to every registered leader every year. Cost of CD and mailing would be about a buck apiece. Separate CDs for youth would be available containing the BS Handbook, Fieldbook and all MB pamphlets. There would be online ordering for all items in the BSA catalog and everything would be reasonably priced and functional.

Indeed a tragedy, but one that was completely avoidable. As I teach in BSA Lifeguard classes, "Dead heroes can't help anyone". Be sure of your water's depth and underwater obstructions and your own abilities before deciding to "go". "Reach, throw, row, go"

I am still registered, but my sons are not. Any funds I raise go into the troop general fund and are not credited to any one Scout. In addition, I also pay my own way for outings and summer camp.

So, Billy...what do you do in Scouting?

You all are correct, of course. I had just checked CNN.com before leaving work and it hit me in the face like a brick with no warning. I was upset. Now, to make matters worse, his picture is there, in full uniform, replete with OA sash and Eagle square knot. When I look at the picture, I don't see a face, all I see is the uniform. The same one we all wear. The photo credit was "Boy SCouts of America". And that's what the public sees. The article refers to him as "former Eagle Scout". At least I agree with that, if found guilty. The sad thing is, if he is found innocent, will it get banner headlines as well?

This has EVERYTHING to do with the BSA and Scouting. When this kind of thing happens, we are all dragged through the mud. I'm glad I'm leaving on vacation, so I don't have to face my co-workers tomorrow. Sigh...

Requirement 1.a., American Business Merit Badge: Do the following: Explain four features of the free enterprise system in United States. Tell its benefits and responsibilities. Describe the difference between freedom and license. Tell how the Scout Oath and Law apply to business and free enterprise. What a country!

Fundraising regulations require that something of value be received in return for the funds. Otherwise, it is solicitation of a cash donation, which is not allowed at the unit level. Does this qualify?

http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/recogn.htm The slightly longer ends of the knot go to the wearer's right.

Well, if they allow it at Philmont, it must not be hazing. There's no hazing in Boy Scouts!

The rules for fundraising are on the back of the Unit Fund Raising Application which must be approved by your Council prior to any fund raising activity. Wearing of uniforms while selling anything other than BSA approved items (usually just Trails End Popcorn or Scout Show tickets) is prohibited. The excuse I've heard is that if units sell a product that proves faulty or tainted (in the case of food products), BSA doesn't want the liability or to be identified with products that they have not approved.