scoutldr

I seem to remember hearing that elections can be held any time the troop wants one. The scouts elected have one year to complete their Ordeal, which are held in March, June and August. This is for our Lodge...your mileage may vary.

TPlady, you have serious anger issues. I hope you find the proper medication soon. Please let us know what camp you work at, so we can all avoid it. I was not speaking hypotheticals, I was speaking from an actual experience where several non-medical staff members were enlisted to assist with check in. Among these was a 14 year old female CIT. I found that to be inappropriate and I discussed it with the Camp Director and professional staff. Scouts and adults should not be expected to discuss their medical issues with a youth staff member.

I can't believe the erroneous information being posted in this thread. The requirements for Class 1, 2, and 3 Medical Forms are printed on the forms. Resident camp requires a Class 1 (update) every 12 months and a Class 2 every 36 months for all youth and adults under 40. Those over 40 must have a Class 3 every 12 months. Ducky, please check your facts before posting. It costs me around $400 to get an annual physical for my Class 3. Only every third year my health insurance covers a portion of this. If someone shredded my form at the end of summer camp, I would be very upset. The form belongs to me, not the camp, and it is good for 12 months. Medical forms should always be returned to the individual or unit leader, since they may be needed for other activities other than Summer Camp. Since the forms also contain a parental consent for treatment, I doubt that a photocopy would be acceptable, so the original should always be on file. Our SM always has them in his briefcase for every activity in case we need to take a trip to the hospital. It's already been established that HIPPA does not apply to this situation, however there is an expectation of confidentiality. State laws may vary. I don't object to the Medical Officer or Camp Director having access. I do object to 14 year old CITs and other non-licensed staff having access and performing medical check ins in hearing range of others. TPlady: Your attitude and language has no place here. There are youth present.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Virginia Pipsico Scout Reservation (Camp Lions): On the site of a former 900+acre plantation on the James River. Features include a climbing tower, low COPE course, dining hall, swimming pool, waterfront (rowing, canoeing, motorboating, small boat sailing, waterskiing), archeological dig (site of a 17th century house), first year camper program, over 40 MB offered. Located in Surry County, in close proximity to Jamestown, Williamsburg, Busch Gardens, Richmond, Norfolk, Virginia Beach. Lots of space still available! Download a leader's guide at www.tidewaterbsa.com Click on "info" then "Camping at Pipsico" (This message has been edited by scoutldr)(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Found this on the internet titled "Phimont Risk Advisory", but it's not dated, so I would call to get the most current info: INSULIN DEPENDENT DIABETES MELLITUS Exercise and the type of food eaten affect insulin requirements. Any individual with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus should be able to monitor personal blood glucose and to know how to adjust insulin doses based on these factors. The diabetic person also should know how to give a self injection. Both the diabetic person and one other person in the group should be able to recognize indications of excessively high blood sugar (Hyperglycemia or diabetic ketoacidosis) and to recognize indications of excessively low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). The diabetic person and one other individual should know the appropriate initial responses for these conditions. It is recommended that the diabetic person and one other individual carry insulin on the trek (in case of accident) and that a third vial be kept at the Health Lodge for backup. Insulin can be carried in a small thermos which can be resupplied with ice or cold water at most staffed camps. A diabetic person who has had frequent hospitalizations for diabetic ketoacidosis or who has had frequent problems with hypoglycemia should not participate in a trek at Philmont until better control of the diabetes has been achieved. Call Philmont at 505-376-2281 to obtain permission from the chief medical officer for individuals hospitalized within the past year.

In another post, Bob reminds us that Patrols can undertake their own activities, even overnight camps, without adult leadership present. My question to the group is this: In the days of "Follow Me Boys", in a small town, rural environment, this may have been a workable option. But in today's urbanized society, is this still a viable option? Is Youth Protection a concern? When I took YP training, it was emphasized that, not only do you not allow 1:1 contact between youth and adults, but not even between youth if there is a 3 year age spread. How many parents would be comfortable with dropping their sons off for the weekend, knowing there would be no adult supervision? Heck, we have parents who won't even allow their Scouts to go door to door in their own neighborhood on a Saturday morning to sell popcorn, because it's no longer considered "safe" to do so. What liability is the CO exposed to if something untoward would happen if there were no adults present. Would this be considered negligence in today's litigious atmosphere? Thoughts, please.

To avoid confusion of others who may be reading, a "Varsity Team" is a separate type of unit...it is not part of a BS Troop. There are "Venture Patrols" and "Venturing Crews", the latter also being a separate unit which may or may not be associated with a Troop. As I understand the program, the VP concept was created to keep older scouts interested and active, centered around High Adventure (not the "Super Scout" concept). As older scouts (indeed, Eagles), they still have an obligation to be leaders, mentors and role models for the younger scouts. This is a concept that perhaps you need to explain more clearly? The fact that they may, on occasion, participate as a patrol in High Adventure activities doesn't mean that they don't participate in the other troop activities. If this is not what you intend, then perhaps a new Venture Crew should be formed with a unique committee, Advisor, Crew President, etc. The rules for the Venture Patrol should be the same as the other Scouts in the troop (because they are part of the troop, under the SPL, not a separate entity). Behavior according to the Scout Oath and Law should be the minimum expectation. If they can't or won't do that, they may be asked to leave ("Eagle" or not), rather than ruin the experience for the rest of the troop. I would suggest a parent's meeting with the scouts present, and make sure the expectations are clear, then follow through with consequences. Good luck!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

OGE, the BSA already has an accreditation program. It's called "Quality Unit". Unfortunately, it's a self-reported honor system that doesn't mean much. Perhaps if the Unit Commissioners were empowered to determine which were QU...oh wait. Never mind. We don't have enough Unit Commissioners. Maybe we need District Inspection Teams to go around. We have to get our camps inspected and accredited...why not Units? Of course, it would be on a voluntary basis...kinda like the USCG Auxiliary Courtesy Inspections. Accredited units could have unit numerals in silver mylar instead of white.

(Lat. cum, with, and clavis, key; a place that may be securely closed)

"he showed that he is not smart enough to be a Scout leader" That should probably be a question on the Adult Leader application..."Are you smart enough to be a Scout Leader (Y/N)" It would go right after the question "Do you use illegal drugs?"

By TIM MCGLONE , The Virginian-Pilot April 19, 2005 When James Edge last spoke with his son, Capt. James C. Edge, he gave the 31-year-old Marine some fatherly advice about keeping his head low in Iraq. He was telling me that everything was going fine. He hadnt lost anyone in his battalion, Edge, a Navy retiree, said Monday. Five days later, on April 15, two Marines showed up at his Knotts Island home with the grim news: Capt. Edge had been killed in a gun battle in Ramadi, a city about 60 miles west of Baghdad along the Euphrates River. The Department of Defense announced Edges death Monday, giving little information other than that he was hit by enemy small-arms fire during combat operations. It was his second tour in Iraq. Ramadi has been one of the most violent cities recently, with near-daily attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces. Three American soldiers were killed there in a mortar attack over the weekend. Edge, a former Eagle Scout from Virginia Beach and a 1992 graduate of Green Run High School, leaves behind his wife, Krissy, and two daughters, ages 3 and 6. Family members had called him Jamie since he was a boy. His twin brother, William, is known as Billy . The youngest of the three Edge boys is Tommy. It seemed, according to the Edge family, that Jamies years in the Boy Scouts had prepared him for the Marines. He earned his Eagle Scout badge in high school. That did have a lot to do with building his character and being organized, his father said. Tim Cherry, Troop 486 adviser, remembers Edge as a personable, athletic boy. He really was a great kid, he said. At Green Run High School, Edge played football and soccer and wrestled. He was also in the Naval Junior ROTC. Teachers said Edge was bubbly, always with a smile, always a neat kid, always pleasant, said Elizabeth Norton, a Green Run math teacher. If you asked him to do something, he wanted to do things the right way, added Richard Joyner, a Green Run government teacher. Edge joined the Marine Corps Reserves in 1993 before entering Virginia Military Institute. He spent summers at Officer Candidate School and graduated a second lieutenant in 1996 with a bachelors degree in international studies. He had been in many skirmishes while serving in Operation Iraqi Freedom with the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division from Camp Pendleton. In April 2004, Edge told The Associated Press that he and a group of Marines came under attack by insurgents in Fallujah. Four Marines were killed during two days of fighting. Edge also was involved that month in uprooting insurgents hiding in a Fallujah mosque, according to news stories. His role in the war consisted of more than fighting. He acted as a liaison to help arrange a cease-fire agreement with those same insurgents, it was reported. After a few months of leave, which Edge spent with his wife and children in California, he returned to Iraq, this time with II Marine Expeditionary Force. His father said his son had reported no losses in his battalion during his second tour. He was in very good spirits, his father said. James Edge said his son always spoke proudly of his service and never questioned the reason for the war. He would say, 'This is for a good cause. This is why were there, his father said. He was very focused on what his mission was. Younger brother Tommy Edge released a statement from the family saying, Jamie died serving his country and protecting our freedom. He was a loving husband and father, a devoted son and brother. He was the best of the best our country had to offer. We need to remember his sacrifice and honor his memory, the statement said. He leaves a legacy of fierce love of God and country, of the Corps and of his family. Tommy Edge said his brother represents the epitome of what a man should be. He has been my teacher and role model, and I have learned so much from his life, he said. Even in death, he continues to be a source of support and inspiration in my life. When asked if he considers his son a hero, James Edge said he considers all the service members in Iraq and Afghanistan to be heroes. I am very proud of him, he said. Later, in an e-mail, he added: I love my son and wish all the other fathers in America could experience a son like Jamie I did and I am blessed. Funeral preparations were incomplete Monday, but a service will be held at the Oceana chapel, the family said. Edge becomes the 16th service member either from Hampton Roads or based here to die in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts.

>>Those of us who recognize the value in the Eagle badge and who want the best for our children should remove obstacles and motivate them to earn this.

It might be helpful to review the Declaration of Religious Principle, which all registered Scouts and Scouters agree to abide: The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely non-sectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. The Boy Scouts of America's policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership. The first thing I notice is that it states "obligation to God"...God with a capital "G". In my opinion, that means the God of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic tradition, aka, Allah, Jahweh, Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, etc. In all of these writings, it is clear that Satan is not "God", indeed the concept of Satan is the antithesis of God. Likewise, the "Earth Mother" is not God. So, I think that the liberal interpretation that "belief in a higher power" suffices, is just a little too liberal. Of course, you will never get BSA to admit that Satanism is equivalent to Atheism, so once again, we are left to our own interpretations. I would tell the young man and his family that Satanism is not an acceptable activity, based on your interpretation, and the avowal and practice of Satanism will not be tolerated in a Scouting context. Then let him appeal. Getting this young man "back on track" is beyond the resources of most Scouters, and should be left to his parents and God. It could be he is in need of pharmaceuticals, as well, and we can't help in that area, either. Here again, we have to consider whether saving this one lost sheep is worth losing all the others and destroying the program in the process. If you want to minister to and pray for this young man, that's admirable, but as the prayer says, pray for "the wisdom to know the difference".

Let he who is without sin fill out the first BSA leader application. People amaze me with their self-righteous down-the-nose attitude. If I read a book on Nazism, does that make me a Nazi? If I watch football on TV, does that make me a Quarterback? Just because I read Playboy doesn't make me a rapist. I would rather have a Playboy reader lead my sons troop than I would a smoker. At least he doesn't bring his Playboy on camping trips and read it around the campfire or sneak out to his truck every 30 minutes to gaze at the centerfold. Is he doing his duty to God? Who here is so arrogant that they can presume to know the answer to that deeply personal question? Pray for him if you must. Anything beyond that is out of line and an invasion of his privacy.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

When I was in Scouts in the 60's there was no flag on the uniform. I don't recall ever being confused as to what country I was a citizen of. Of course, when we forgot the flag, we couldn't salute the SPL's right arm. When my son joined Cubs in 1984, the flag patch was worn over the pocket above the "Cub Scouts BSA" strip, so there was no confusion as to what was correct. My own opinion is that the Army is wrong and it looks stupid. As was pointed out, the flag patch is not a flag. It is not double sided and does not "fly in the wind". It's a patch, and the field should be to it's own right when displayed on a flat surface.

The most important lesson we can teach young people is that they have to live with the natural consequences of their own choices. Whether it's the young 11 yo tenderfoot who forgets to bring the can opener on the campout, or the 17 yr 10 month old Eagle candidate who can't quite find the time to get that last merit badge done. >>now that we've finished growing up

I am not aware that troops have exclusive territories ("recruiting districts"). In my area, we have a new troop that was just formed at a "mega church" literally blocks from where we meet, so we are drawing from the same schools. Prospective scouts or upcoming Webelos should be encouraged to visit as many troops as they can to find the best fit. We have a scout who comes from the other side of the city, because his dad works with our ASM. We had another scout visit, but chose another troop because we weren't "religious enough". It's up to the scout and his parents. More to your question...you currently have 25% of "TAY" (total available youth). Those are pretty good stats in anyone's book. Those scouts are your best recruiting tool. Have each one bring a friend to an open house. As someone else said, Scouting's success is based on three things...program, program and program. If you build it, they will come.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

ps56k - I like the sports analogy. The SM is the coach. If the QB is performing badly, the coach cannot enter the game and take his place. It's simply not allowed, and all the parents accept that. The coach has to keep coaching until the QB gets it, or is replaced. If the other players tire of losing, they either improve their performance or find another team. I like it!

I have two copies of Follow Me Boys on DVD. Disney released it last year. Best Buy has them in this area.

I did not beg, bribe, threaten, coerce, beat, or do the work for them (as I have seen some parents do), therefore, neither of my sons completed their Eagle. All I did was serve as a registered adult and make sure they had a Troop to belong to and rides to every meeting and camping trip. Not making Eagle was a result of their efforts and priorities, not mine...as it should be. Complacency is not a quality of an Eagle. That's why the brotherhood of Eagles remains an elite society, of which MOST of them should be really proud. A friend of mine told me last week that he was having to take a day off from work to go around and get his son's Eagle application processed in time for his 18th birthday. I just shook my head and said, "why is this YOUR problem?"

While I am thoroughly enjoying the debate, I took the day off to do my "Duty to Country" and finish my tax return! :-( Here it is almost noon already! Gotta go so I can finish in time to make the District Meeting tonight. TTFN!

Busylady, I am thoroughly enjoying your thoughtful, coherent, and obviously educated posts. Welcome to the forum and I look forward to more of your writings! You can bring the s'mores next time! My concern is that the average Scouter, me included, while adept at teaching a Bowline or how to sharpen a knife, is not a Theologian capable of recognizing or determining when a Scout has met his "duty to God", in the tradition of his faith and family. Perhaps that is one requirement that we should leave solely to the Deity to determine. As the Scripture says, only He/She knows what's in the Scout's heart. All we see are his actions. If an adulterer holds the door for his girlfriend, is he still Courteous? Hmmm. If the faithful husband verbally abuses his wife, is he still Morally Straight? I think I'll stick to tying knots and stay out of the Judgement business. By the time we consider all of the possible permutations, none of us will remain standing.

We had a discussion at RT this week about the "Scout Spirit" requirement. One leader stated that he had a Roman Catholic scout who was refusing to become Confirmed in his Church. Based on that, he was considering witholding advancement (Scout Spirit) based on not doing his "Duty to God" as defined by his faith, the RC church. The same leader said that a Scout whose family was unchurched, but who professed a faith in a higher power, would be granted advancement, since he was "practicing" his faith in the tradition of his family, and thus showing Scout Spirit, as opposed to the RC scout who goes to Mass every Sunday, but was being rebellious about Confirmation against his parent's wishes. I had to admit to myself that this was a twist that I had never considered. My opinion is that BSA should clearly define what the requirement is (e.g., as busylady described it), or get out of the religion business. Just like any other requirement, it should be stated and we should not add nor subtract from it. It's not fair to us or to the Scouts to ask us to adjudicate it according to our own personal beliefs or ingenuity.

Congratulations, Mike! I did not used to be anything, so maybe I am speaking out of turn...I think your Beading should be anywhere that is most meaningful to you. Having said that, my only concern would be the time required, the attention span of Cubs, and would they really understand or care about the significance of the ceremony? Having been a CM for 5 years, I know that time at a Pack Meeting can be tight, especially if your Pack is large. If you can make it all work without shortchanging the boys, then by all means, go for it. We had a Beading Tues night at the Cub Roundtable. We have also had Beadings at Univ of Scouting. Beatings, on the other hand, are administered whenever needed!

I;m not much of a techie, but I notice in the last 2 days, my browser (IE6) resets the text size to "Medium" whenever I close it. When I reopen Scouter.com, I have to reset the text to "Largest". Other web sites don't seem to be doing this. I'm running a Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop. As my mother in law says, these things have a mind of their own sometimes.