scoutldr

I'm all for protecting trademarks...against those who are illegally profiting from their use. That does not describe the majority of us. A reasonable approach would be to allow registered members of the BSA to use the marks for the promotion of the BSA program, such as patches, newsletters, cerificates, training flyers, etc. THose who are using the marks for profit on unlicensed products, such as clothing, should be fair game for the lawyers. To those who have the alleged "10 page document", could someone scan it and post it on the internet for us to read? I see no reason why it should be kept a "secret", since it affects us all.

I should have said that Camp Hidden Valley is NW of Gettysburg. Their official mailing address is Loysville...Landisburg is the next town over. The cabins are heated both with wood stoves and gas furnaces. they have full kitchen facilities (refrig, stove, oven, hot water), and indoor toilets (the health dept made them close the pit latrines). Also, as I said, hot water central showers which are open all winter. The cabins will hold up to 50 scouts in bunk beds (open bay style). www.keystonebsa.org

Miki101 said, "In 6 months there will be a dozen authorized patch makers to which councils can turn." I remember when the rule came out that "all BSA patches must include the FDL". But what's used is the generic plain FDL without eagle, not the registered trademark. I can't remember a patch, other than rank badges, that contain registered trademarks. CSP, event patches, OA flaps...nope. At least in my Council. So as a free American, I can use the generic FDL at will, with whatever vendor I want, right? As long as I don't order it through Council. Our Council does have a rule that all event patches MUST be approved and ordered by the SE. I've always wondered if he gets a kickback from favored vendors.

I don't think there are "established guidelines". Last month the dad of one of our scouts passed from a very aggressive pancreatic cancer. In the short months leading up to it, we tried to ensure that the scout had our support and a "normal" routine. We watched him grow up a lot in the past six months. We all attended the service as a group, in full uniform.

I regularly sit on EBOR as the District rep, and don't object to letters of recommendation. They are usually sealed in the envelopes until we sit down around the EBOR table, and we pass them around and read them before the scout is called in. But my point was, if the letters are not there, or there isn't one from a "religious" reference, we don't hold that against the scout.

Wow...250K!!! And I was outraged over the measly $130K for the SE in our council. I have made the same decision. My donations will go directly to my unit...that way I know the money is spent on program and not for someone to live way above MY means.

"And although scoutldr is correct that the application calls only for references and not letters, some Councils will insist that the Scout arrange for letters." Wouldn't this be adding to the requirements?

We use Camp Hidden Valley, Keystone Area Council in Landisburg, just NE of Gettysburg. We'll be there for President's day weekend in Feb. Cabins have been recently updated with indoor bathrooms and they have a central shower with HOT water :-). We also do a side trip to Ski Roundtop.

Just curious as to why the DE and DC are off the hook here? Isn't it THEIR job to work with the unit to identify potential CO's and then go in and sell the program? Why is this being left up to the unit to "sink or swim"?

This is a common misconception. Signatures on the application are not required. The requirement states, "List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf." Typically, letters of recommendation are requested of these individuals, but they are not required. The scout can list anyone who can attest to how he fulfills the scout oath and law in his daily life, including "duty to God" and "A Scout is Reverent". PS: Welcome to the forums!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself, though not a Montague. What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot, Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part Belonging to a man. O, be some other name! What's in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet; So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd, Retain that dear perfection which he owes Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name, And for that name which is no part of thee Take all myself.

"What can I as SM do to help with this situation?" Seems to me the process worked just the way it should. The BOYS discussed it and worked it out. Could it have been more efficient? Sure. And it will be over time. Broad guidelines from above are OK, such as respecting religious or dietary requirements, and "no junk food for meals". Other than that, let them do their thing.

I think we have an answer to the question, "What is Scouting?" This is such a well-written piece...please list the source and author to give him due credit.

As my dad used to say,"you can call me anything except late for dinner."

It's on the charter agreement form: http://www.ctrivers.org/pdfs/annual%20charter%20agreement.pdf

Perhaps new Sea Scouts should be sent below to find the bivalve and make sure it's closed before shoving off!

I agree, less is more. My pet peeve is flag ceremonies at camp, where the colors detail has every movement preceeded by an order barked out by a staff member with a megaphone. A simple "Color guard, post the colors" followed by silence would suffice. We don't need, "Color guard, forward march", "Color guard, halt", "Color guard, inward face", etc etc. Agree with the less squirming comment. Scouts should be taught to stand silently and render the proper salute when appropriate. Then there's the odd troop from out of council, all identically dressed, who will come marching down the trail with guidon and SPL calling cadence. Sheesh.

"If you are not able, which is ok, then the Council is asking for whatever you see fit. They would accept $10 per child or even $2. The are asking us to help however we can." That pretty much describes the current FOS program, doesn't it? The FOS presenter comes in and says "it takes $126 a year per boy to provide scouting" and then accepts whatever is written on the pledge cards....a lot of parents throw in a 5 or 10 dollar bill and their conscience is clear, regardless of their ability to pay.

What scoutnut said is right on. What you have described are all full time jobs in their own right. Remember, SCouting is supposed to be fun for you, too. With the exception of ACM, the other positions should be covered by pack committee members. The CM, ACM and den leaders are not technically members of the pack committee, but their job is to carry out the program. The pack committee plans and funds the program, and handles the "business" stuff.

My dad was a WWII submarine veteran, retiring in 1964. Coincidentally, I spent last week on business at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center, where he entered boot camp in 1942. On Thursday, we awoke to find all the flags on the base at half-staff. No one knew why, until I reminded tham that it was Pearl Harbor Day. I have visited Pearl Harbor Naval Station three times over the years. I am always in awe, seeing the very barracks where my dad, a 17 year old farm boy, spent the early days of the war, the Royal Hawaiian Hotel where the submarine crews were housed between war patrols, the USS Arizona memorial and museum, and looking out over the very mountain ranges from where Japanese Zeroes rained down their terror. We remember because our parents and grandparents saved the world from terror and domination by tyrants. Some served in the military, while others served on the home front working in shipyards and factories or even by merely collecting newspapers and scrap metal for the war effort (Scouts collected millions of tons). I like to believe that that the current crop of brave men and women serving in the military will be remembered in the same light, and that we did our part here at home for the effort.

While such a policy from National wouldn't surprise me, I doubt that it's true. Looking at the link that scotteng posted, most of the logos and badges have the little "registered trademark" symbol. The exception is the "Scout" badge, which is just a generic FDL. Since the plain FDL is in common use, it probably is not trademarkable. Usually, in these cases, it is acceptable to use trademarks exactly as they are provided to us, without alteration. There are many examples of unauthorized use, one of which being the red nylon jacket that my friend ordered from eBay. It has the full color embroidered FDL with eagle (close but not identical to the official one), and our names and troop #. Someone is selling these as a business (though I doubt they make much profit), but since it doesn't come from the BSA catalog, is probably illegal. So my interpretation is for local use, use the trademarks exactly as designed, include the RT mark, and don't make a profit from its use. If they're still not happy with that, they can have my sincere apology attached to my resignation. PS: I'm not a lawyer...just a "reasonable man" acting in good faith.

The "book answer" is that the funds can be spent any way the Chartered Organization allows you to spend them, since they "own" the funds. The unit committee should plan the year's budget needs, then plan the fundraisers to cover those expenses, or else pass the expense on to the parents. If the committee decides that paying for unifoms is a unit expense (which is not very common), then plan the fundraisers accordingly. What the leaders' guide is talking about is that you shouldn't plan fundraisers just to see how huge the pack treasury can get, without a clear plan for using the money. Raise only the funds you need. Back in the day, the program taught that scouts should pay for their uniforms, camp fees, etc, by earning the money (mowing lawns, babysitting, etc). A modern compromise is that fundraising proceeds are placed into individual "scout bucks" accounts, proportional to the scout's participation in fundraising. The committee can decide how the scout accounts can be used...some limit it only to camp fees, and others allow it to be used for uniforms, books, or "anything from the scout shop."

This was in today's paper: http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=115417&ran=77678 The neighboring council, Tidewater, held a weekend popcorn sale with all proceeds going to the families of Troop 17. Over $20,000 was raised and presented to the families from their extended scouting family.

As unit level scouters, your voice and vote is your COR. How many of your CORs attend monthly District Committee and Council Executive Board meetings?

Fuzzy, for the sin of committing a run-on sentence, I absolve thee and direct thee to do penance by saying three "On my honors" a day for 30 days and repeat English 101.