scoutldr

Thanks, Beav for the perspective. You make a lot of sense (most of the time :-). I should add that I first met Mrs. Scoutldr in 8th grade Confirmation class, and I was smitten. 39 years later, I still get smote regularly. I should also say that my church, an ELCA congregation does not currently charter a unit, although they did until about a year ago. My unit, a Troop, is chartered to a UMC. Next time I'm sick, I'll scour the internet for the UMC doctrine on the issue. I think that it's just a matter of time before the ELCA and other denominations who are liberalizing their views on gay/lesbian relationships figure out that the BSA policy is anathema to their ministry, at least in this area. My mother's funeral was also officiated by a female Pastor. She was great!

Well put, OGE. I was wondering the same things from the start of this thread. BSA says "atheists and agnostics cannot be members." Scout says "I'm an agnostic". The way ahead is clear. The troop committee should meet with the scout and his family (with the COR present) and clearly explain the DRP and BSA membership requirements. Then I would give them until recharter time (presumably within the next couple of months?) to let you know their decision. This is their decision, not the committee's. While we as scouters may not necessarily agree with BSA policy, we have agreed to deliver the program as it is written.

Not exactly true, Michael. They can still join LFL or Exploring. I know they are "separate subsidiaries" of the BSA, but IMHO, that's just smoke and mirrors so BSA can keep their numbers up. If the BSA is so adamant that gays and atheists are not worth associating with, then the policy should apply across the board. Can't have it both ways.

OK, I've been home sick for 2 days, so I've spent a lot of time surfing the internet. As I've said, I'm Lutheran by birth, from a long line of Pennsylvania German Lutherans, and a Scouter with 32 years of service stars. I am an Eagle Scout and earned the Pro Deo et Patria religious award. I was baptized and confirmed in the Church, and was active in Luther League (youth group), and served on Church Council for two terms, and was a substitute organist. My life growing up consisted of Church and Scouting. Now I'm afraid I may have to choose. I will say up front that my own beliefs are more aligned with the church than with the BSA policy. My church's stand on gay/lesbians is that we are to accept them and minister to their needs, but they will not (yet) be ordained ministers. From the last churchwide assembly the following resolution was passed: Recommendation for Assembly Action Majority vote required WHEREAS, this church holds that marriage is a lifelong covenant of faithfulness between a man and a woman (Message on Sexuality: Some Common Convictions [1996], page 3); and WHEREAS, the Conference of Bishops in October 1993 stated, We, as the Conference of Bishops of the ELCA, recognize that there is basis neither in Scripture nor tradition for the establishment of an official ceremony by this church for the blessing of a homosexual relationship. We, therefore, do not approve such a ceremony as an official action of this churchs ministry. Nevertheless, we express trust in and will continue dialogue with those pastors and congregations who are in ministry with gay and lesbian persons, and affirm their desire to explore the best ways to provide pastoral care for all to whom they minister (CB93.10.25); therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America continue to respect the guidance of the 1993 statement of the Conference of Bishops; and be it further RESOLVED, that this church welcome gay and lesbian persons into its life (as stated in Churchwide Assembly resolutions from 1991, 1995, and 1999), and trust pastors and congregations to discern ways to provide faithful pastoral care to same-sex couples. An even bigger question is how do ELCA churches (and other denominations with similar stances) reconcile chartering BSA units if they are forced by the BSA to actively discriminate and deny gay/lesbian Scouts and Scouters. I'm afraid the BSA is painting themselves into a corner.

The 50 miler award application says, "Make suitable plans for the trip" and "Select a suitable trail or waterway" Based on that, walking in circles around your front yard doesn't qualify.

A lot depends on the unit's financial situation. In my unit, we make enough money to cover operating costs (badges, camp site deposits, etc), and that's it. Some Cub Packs make $20,000 from popcorn sales and they should be paying all training fees for their leaders. If the unit does pay, there should be some "payback" commitment from the leader, such as agreeing to serve two more years.

Congratulations, R. Being asked to become SM is indeed an honor. The keys to success are to remember that you can't do it all. Assemble a good cadre of assistants and let the Troop Committee do their jobs. Your job is primarily to train the Youth leaders to deliver the program by conducting JLT and constant mentoring. But you know all this!

Is too Is not Is too Is not Is too You've both stated your positions multiple times, now give it a rest or take it to the PM side.

Someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but Neckers are optional. Choice of neckwear and headwear is a troop decision. But once decided, all should wear the same thing.

I'm not surprised with the SCOTUS decision to let the lower court decision stand. In fact, I agree with the decision. No one said that standing up for what we believe in would be painless. Freedom isn't "free", as we are learning in Iraq.

If he's a "prospective member", then it's allowed.

Council still charged an "administrative fee" to cover things like photocopying and staff time even though I went to Kinko's and paid for it myself, and never asked the staff to do a thing.

Yes there is lots of pressure brought to bear. The Councils need to cover their overhead expenses (salaries, rents, camp maintenance, etc) and the two major income producers are FOS and popcorn. If a unit sells wreaths or candy bars, that doesn't count, unless they turn over a similar percentage of the profit to Council. It's as simple as that. If the DE doesn't meet his goals for FOS and popcorn, he hasn't funded his own salary for the coming year. That won't happen too many years in a row before he's gone.

I can't think of three that I couldn't do without.

It's fall camporee weekend here. Tonight it's expected to dip into the upper 40's ... the coldest Wx so far this fall. During lunch, a coworker and Cub leader stated, "Cubs can't go camping below 40 degrees". Anyone else heard of this "rule" and is there a reference? I've looked in the G2SS and didn't see it. (I know cubs can't go to camporees...that's not the question.)

As the old mantra goes, "if you want something done, give it to a busy person." IMHO, there are certain jobs in scouting that should be given "full time" attention (i.e., no multiple hats). They are Unit Leaders (SM, CM), Den leaders and Commissioners, for example. We have a policy in our district that Commissioners may not hold a unit position, because we don't want to dilute their unit service. There are plenty of other potential volunteers who need to be asked.

The fundraising aspect is not clear to me...but I believe BSA policy is that scouts and scout units may not fundraise for other organizations.

A few weeks ago at work, a lady came up to me (who I had not met yet), and handed me a plastic bag containing a tattered flag. One of those cheap cotton ones that you buy at K-mart and are faded out within a few weeks. She said, "someone told me you were with the Boy Scouts and would know what to to do with this." I said, "thank you very much. I'd be honored to have my Troop retire this flag properly." She could have just put it in the trash and bought another one. But she knew that was not right, and found a Scout to handle it for her. I am still humbled and honored. My troop will continue to do flag retirements as often as necessary.

This myth may stem from the day when the first 6 merit badges could be worn on the right sleeve of the long sleeved shirt (it may still be acceptable, but few wear long sleeves any more). After that, they were moved to a sash, so you never saw sashes with less than 6 MB. Sashes came in two widths, either 2 badges wide, or three. I never really understood the purpose of that, except the 2-wide might have looked better on a really small or skinny kid. They also were available in forest green for Explorer Scouts.

I chaired an EBOR last night for a scout who met the 90 day deadline with 10 days to spare. All requirements were completed prior to his 18th birthday, but the EBOR had to be rescheduled twice due to circumstances beyond our control. The District Advancement chair told me that beyond 90 days a waiver from National would be required. Apparently the rules vary by Council.

The organization I work for hosts a major medical conference every year. One year, I was a presenter, and as luck would have it, the projector bulb blew (I'm dating myself...this was before the power point era). It took about 15 minutes to find the A/V tech and get the bulb changed out, meanwhile about 200 people enjoyed chatting among themselves. When I was ready to go again, I just moved to the podium and quietly held my "sign" in the air. Within a few seconds, I saw grown men and women automatically putting their sign up and elbowing their neighbors, and the room grew quiet. There were enough former scouts and scouters in the audience that it worked like a charm! Shortly thereafter, I submitted this story to Scouting magazine and it was accepted for printing! True story!

Thanks for the link! Classic stuff and great reading!

The DE is one of the "Key 3" in your District, along with the District Chairman, and District Commissioner. The DE's job is to primarily help recruit and mentor the members of the District Committee (finance, training, membership, camping, program, advancement, etc). This District Committee is, in turn, responsible for delivering the program within the district. The DE's other function is to visit prospective CO's and "sell" the scouting program to them, thus forming new units. Some DE's are VERY busy, because they have to fill in where the volunteers fall short (or if there are no volunteers for a particular function). The DE's job performance evaluation (and continued employment and raises) depend on how well the District meets its goals toward "Quality District". Most of the goals are geared toward more members, more units, and more money (FOS and popcorn).

Commandopro - I see by your posts that you are a professional Scouter. Suffice it to say that the councils I cited both serve the area in which I live, although the GS council covers a larger area (equal to two BS councils, more or less). My intent in posting the data was to show that salaries are apparently widely divergent between the two programs, as stated on the 990's, which are public information. I assume that the difference in total revenues stated is due, in part to the larger geographic area of the GS council and also assuming that cookie revenue is MUCH larger than popcorn revenue (gross income). If there is information that I'm not privy to that would render the comparison unfair, I apologize and am willing to be educated. I also see on the GSUSA web site that they are undertaking a MAJOR national realignment of progam and council coverage, cutting the number of councils (and presumably, overhead expense) by about 2/3. Interesting reading. The gist of the philosophy is "the past is in the past, what do we need to do for today and the future to ensure relevance and survival of the program?"

"I would not be in favor of the Pack Trainer doing Leader Specific unless they have served in that position but I would favor all the others." We have people on the District Training team teaching CS Leader Specific who haven't been in the CS program for 10 years or more, if ever. I was one of those. That's one reason why I'm no longer in the training business. I got tired of having fresh-caught Den Leaders telling me that the materials were outdated and that I didn't know what I was talking about. They were right. As I have said before in these forums, one of the main problems with CS training is that the leaders go away feeling cheated. They don't care how Councils get funded or how to pin patches on a shirt. They want to know how to keep 8 boys from killng each other for 90 minutes a week. When I explained that they would get that through Roundtables and PowWow, they were downright disgusted that they had wasted their time. And the requirement that they get "retrained" for every step in the program is unrealistic and doesn't happen, in my experience. In my district the "trained leader" stat hovered around 30%, regardless of how many sessions I put on. Most of my training sessions were attended by people from other districts, which was OK, but it didn't make my DE any happier. "new leaders should receive position specific training within 30 days"??? Ain't gonna happen in most Councils, unless the training can be done by the Pack Trainer. There aren't enough trainers to go around. I thought the Pack Trainer concept was a great idea...having an experienced leader train and mentor the newbies in their own Pack with "just in time" training, rather than wait for the semi-annual district events. Too bad it's been watered down to the point that it's meaningless. The new job description has always been a responsibility of the Pack Committee.