scoutldr

Actually I'm being realistic. There probably was a day when summer camp staff worked for free (30's, 40's maybe? I'm not that old.), because they loved scouting, loved the chance to be in the "country" during the summer, and they had nothing else to do. They didn't need to generate $300 a week to support their cars and electronic toys. Those that had to get actual jobs, did so in order to help feed their families (my Dad was one of those). Unfortunately, those days don't exist any more, and if we didn't pay camp staffers a salary (meager as it is), there would not be a summer camp. But if it's gotten to the point that a scout can't donate a few hours to teach younger scouts how to tie knots, without expecting remuneration, that's sad indeed and our program is doomed.

It also won't count for OA eligibility. I remind the scouts of that when they want to go home early (on family night) from summer camp. "I guess you'll get your long term camp somewhere else?" Most just shrug and say "I don't care...my Playstation misses me."

There's already a Scouting job for the 22 year old new college grad with no life experience. It's called "District Executive"...

Not enough information. I personally would not choose a 22 year old female to be an SM. Too distracting to the 17 year old boys.

"Yah, so what do we all think of BSA summer camp, where boys with limited experience are hired as counselors and paid to teach skills to younger boys?" I think that we're talking apples and oranges. Summer camp counseling is a job, not a unit fundraiser. And the pay sucks, considering the hours they put in. "And what do we feel about DE's, who are paid to provide services to adult leaders (and to kids in direct service units)? " Ditto about the pay. It's the SE's who are making 4 times the salary of a DE that gives me heartburn. Ours doesn't do anything for the units, except publicly insult the volunteers and berate those who choose to go out of council for camp. "How about paying $ for training (or $$ for Woodbadge)?" Getting the "Trained" strip should be free, since "every scout deserves a trained leader" and we are told we're pond scum if we're not. Most people I know can't afford WB (in terms of both time and bucks). Maybe we could do without the custom shirts, caps, notebooks, coffee mugs, yada, yada, yada, and make it more accessible to the masses.

Wow...Camp Woodruff sounds like the Hilton! Ours has traditional gang showers for men and youth (separate), and a third section was added for women with individual stalls. My boys tell me that the showers in the High School gym are now used for storage. No showers required after PE.

Sometimes they do surprise us. Glad it worked out...

"Dat's the way the MB program is designed to work. As long as your troop is providin' reasonable T-2-1 opportunities each year, the rest of it is up to the boys." Beav, what are you saying??? You mean the boys are supposed to show initiative??? How in the world are the Eagle Mills supposed to stay in business? Our Eagle rate would drop back to 2% like it used to be! Seriously, though, our guys almost never take Camping at summer camp. Too many other things to do that they can't get anywhere else. Nothing wrong with saying to them, "Camping is Eagle required, and that means you need to include X, Y and Z into your campout plans."

Ekmiranda, no offense, but you have very high expectations. Having a non-involved CO is the norm, in my experience. We even have to pay the $20 recharter fee ourselves. Our CO (a struggling Methodist church) gave us a key to the "fellowship hall" out back (think portable classroom), that is termite ridden and falling apart. We even shared the room with a rat this past winter. (He seemed like a nice rat, so we co-existed.) They even went so far as to ask us not to use the heat, since it cost them money for the 90 minutes per week that we use the facility. In exchange, we are grateful that there is no meddling in the troop operations such as what some of our fellow posters experience, and we get signatures when we need them. Count your blessings.

First, welcome to the forums. I understand the frustration. So, I take it from the information provided that you are not a registered Scouter in this troop? Not a criticism, but it does limit your ability to influence the troop operations. As a parent, you have the right to voice your opinion and vote with your feet and checkbook. That's about it. You state that " I understand the Troop Committee has discussed this issue with the Scoutmaster over and over. The Scoutmaster has spoken to the senior Scouts and they are also frustrated since they are getting nowhere with the Troop." I presume the adults and senior scouts are "leading by example" and are in complete, proper uniform at every meeting? How often is the Unit Commissioner invited to do a uniform inspection? (Should happen at least annually). Offer a reward to the Patrol and individual scout with the highest score! (As a parent, you could offer to fund a pizza party or special outing for the "honor patrol") As some here will quickly remind us, BSA policy is that "a uniform is not a requirement to be a Scout". But it is taught as one of many methods to deliver the program. When the uniform is worn, it should be worn properly and with respect. As you said, when we were scouts in the 60's, we were proud to wear it correctly. Heck, we even wore ours to school on meeting days. I have a 6th grade class picture with 3 of us in uniform. Times are different now. Good luck!

I thought "volunteerism" was one of our "timeless values"...apparently I was wrong. So, lest I be thought of as a "pinko socialist", I'll notify my COR that my services as a Troop CC are now at the rate of $60 an hour. (If figure that's about right for 35 years' experience, and still less than our SE makes!). The boys had better get busy...that's a lot of popcorn!!! (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

The problem I have is when I see council fundraising supporting 6 figure salaries. The units see very little of that. Sure, it goes to maintain council properties (camps), but none of it goes to the units to buy all the stuff they have to buy from the Scout Shop (badges, cards, books, etc). The units have to fund that somehow, otherwise our yearly unit dues would be $100 and up. If the council said, "if you support us, all of the program materials will be free", then I could maybe begin to see it. But there ain't no free lunch. And as gas heads towards $4 a gallon, a lot of families are having to make hard choices (let's see...FOS donation, or buy gas so i can go to work...Hmmmmm.) I'm afraid we are in for some lean years.

Let's hope that when the Advancement Report is filed with COuncil that ScoutNet will reject the MeritBadges for the Cub Scout. Too bad he will have to do them all over again. Requirements completed before you're registered as a Boy Scout don't count.

Withdrawn...Ed beat me to it...(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

I said we had them...didn't say the scouts actually use them...

I'm no expert, but you can plagiarize the HTML code by clicking on "View Source" in your browser. The website you looked at appears to have been abandoned, a common problem when leadership changes hands. I attended a session on unit websites at our last Univ of Scouting, and abandoned websites appears to be a common complaint. There's no way to get rid of them, unless the owner takes them offline. You might want to shoot an e-mail to the Texas council where this troop is located, and they can maybe put you in touch with the troop's current SM or CC.

We have two central showers, one at the pool house and one on the other side of camp. Both have hot water and are open 24 hrs. No showers in the sites.

I'll bet that not much actual sleeping would have happened anyway.

Assuming the price of gas follows simple supply and demand economics, even at $3+ per gallon, demand is not wavering. People are not conserving, which drives the price even higher...because they can. Eventually we will be paying what the Europeans pay...and glad for the privilege. I have noticed this week that the Citgo signs have disappeared from the 7-11 gas pumps. Maybe I can go back to buying my gas there now...

I replaced by 1999 Grand Cherokee with a 2005 Ford Explorer about a year and a half ago. V-6, 4x4 with third seat, primarily for my Scouting activities. It is nice to have about twice a year for the trips to Home Depot. It is my daily driver to work, and I'm averaging about 17 mpg according to the trip computer. Every time I fill it up, spending over $50-60 per week, I think hard about replacing it with a subcompact econobox...my son gets 36 mpg on his 2005 Focus. It's costing me almost $10 a day just to go to work and back. I'll just have to tell the parents to get their kid to camp however they can...I'll meet them there. We do have an 83 Suburban which was donated...we fold down all the seats and load that with troop gear to the tune of about 10 mpg (350 ci V8).

So, do we owe the same allegiance to the scout who declares himself gay or atheist? Or do we just summarily revoke his membership? That's where I have the problem. Inconsistent messages.

Ultimately the decision to approve his plan is up to the SM, Troop Committee and District Advancement Chair. The plan should include financing the project, either through fundraisers, donations in kind, or parental support. Soliciting cash donations is generally not allowed, because that cuts into the Council's FOS turf. Also, as was mentioned, the BSA does not permit its members to do fundraising for other organizations. Another question that might be asked...is this a project that was conceived and designed by the scout, or is he just supplying labor for another organization's project? Case in point...supplying labor for a Habitat house would count as service hours...but the scout did not conceive, design, plan and lead the project. For that reason, Red Cross blood drives are no longer approved as Eagle projects in my local council. PS: The Scout may want to contact some Airlines to see if donations of Frequent Flyer miles would be an option...I regulary donate mine because I don't accrue enough on any one airline to be able to use.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Happy Birthday, Mr. West. (May 16, 1876 - May 15, 1948). David, when will your book be out? I am looking forward to an autographed copy!

"So, are we considered chartered or not?" A "charter" is a certificate presented by the BSA to the CO. Has your CO been given one of those? Do all the members have membership cards with a Member number on them? Have their member applications been processed and the checks cashed? Do you have a printout of the membership roster from Scoutnet? Are the leaders getting Scouting magazine? These are all characteristics of a chartered unit. If the answer is "no", then your son's advancements may be in question as well. You need to have a chat with your Council's registrar, and request a current roster printout from Scoutnet. She/he will quickly let you know your status.

The Eagle Court of Honor is usually designed by the scout, his family and his troop. There are no hard and fast rules.