Scoutfish

Yeah, we do make a diference. But it's not a blanket effect. Every scout leader and every scout are different. There could be an incident that happens at Tiger Scout age that pretty much makes or breaks the entire program. Could be the way society is changing that makes the young Boy Scout either accept the program and dive in, coast along or just bide soome time till he bails out. How do adults treat the scouts? What attitude do mom and da have of scouting? Is it just keeping up with the Jones', is it just a "Gotta do something- why not scouting, or do mom and dad really stand behind the program? Then it's the individual, and how they were raised. The "yes sir, no ma'am" type probably stick it out a bit longer and understand the concept of earning what you get,responcible for what you did . Then there are those whos parents ( by example) have taught that "It's not my fault/ responcibility - somebody else should have done ...." Then, I feel there is a matter of how kids look at others: I grew up respecting adults and authority UNTIL they gave me a reason to not respect them. Now days, alot of kids are the polar opposite. Anyways, in my short time in scouting, I have seen shy kids open up and become a part of a crowd. I have seen negative kids become confident and become proficient at a skill. I have watched kids sit around a campfire and tell war stories amongst themselves that had nothing to do with video games. My own son ( yeah, it does change things) looks forward to outdoor activities. I agree with allenj.....sometimes, it all depends on the person, and not us. Incidentally, I got busted for possesion of Marijuanna when I was 18. At that time, I was heading straight down the wrong path. The cop who busted me, held the report, took me to toe police station and scared the living crap out of me. Years later, we were fishing buddies. He did the same thing for some other young men. One turned out okay also, and another is probably working on his 6th or 7th time behind bars. Same treatment, different outcomes. The difference: US, not the cop or his actions.

SUCKER!

I guess that, even as a smoker ( when I smoked) , I always was of the mindset that my smoking rights stopped when my smoke infringed on a non smokers rights to clean air.

in 9 days, I will have been smoke free for 1 full year. I smoked for 20 years. Not 19, not 21, but 20 years. But I did not smoke inside my house, nor in my wife's car. I did not smoke when my wife and son were in a vehicle with me. I did not smoke at, or during any scout activities. The worst part was Pack family camping. I could have walked about 300 yards to our designated smoking area(outside the camp area) , but I realized I would sopend alot of time away from my son and other scouts ....mostly by the walking back and forth. Now, once I got home, I went nuts. Probably looked like my face was on fire! So my point is this: As a (former) smoker, I think BSA should outright ban smoking during scout functions. No, it's not about taking a right away from a smoker, but protecting the rights of non smokers. What is the smoker gonna say? : "Ahhgh, the clean air hurts!" ? It will not hurt to have some clean air, but there is no doubt that even a small amount of smoke is bad for smokers and non smokers alike. NASCAR, which I love, banned smoking in the stands of races. The same races where you semell raw gasoline, exhaust and burning rubber. As a smoker ( when I did smoke) I completely understood the rreasons behind the ban. Same as above. NJ, I cannot see a reason for anybody to be offended.

Basement, Was he from Latter Day Saints or Late Developing Scouts?

I wonder exactly what the parameters for classification are. I agree with Merlyn in this particular instance. Remember Ryan White: Got HIV from IV injection ( blood transfusion) at hospital. Would that fall under: IV use becaause trhat's where he got it from.... Heterosexual: which he was.... or would it count as coming from ( supposedly) a drug user, a homosexual, or prostitute - for which the IV needle MAY have previously been used on? Or would that not count at all as it was a Hospital screw up?

I do want to add though....I like the idea for another reason too: That one training night in the fall and in the spring might just be on a night that a leader cannot make it. That and our distric( as well as council and surrounding council) trainings usually fall a month after roundup. Yeah, I understand you may recruit new leaders and need time to feel them out, but with online, you can have an existing leader trained and documented in YP, Leader Specific and This Is Scouting before the new season even starts.

We pay for all beltloops earned during a scout activity. Wether at a den meeting, pack function, fun day, field trip or even at camps. We pay for the first 2 beltloops per month for activities done outside the pack. After that, mom and dad pay or the scout can use his pass account. Now, there is a big difference between a beltloop. pin and the activity badge that Webelos earn as part of Webelos advancement. A belt loop has only 3 requirements. Basic stuff that requires participation of some type, but not much more. Pins usually have about 10 requiremenst and involve a scout doing or presenting something( report, poster, displays, etc...) in front of the den, pack or family. Activity badges are something else entirely. Go with the beltloop program. There is no cost except the beltloops themselves. The biggest benefit to the scouts is that by actively pursueing beltloops, they are exposing themselves to a particular activity that they might not have tried otherwise. Matter of fact, just by participating in many scout activities, they probably have already earned a few beltloops by action...even though your pack doesn't actively participate.

Well,my 3 local beaches do not use lifegaurds. Insurance liability, or just being too cheap, not sure which. The pools we swam at were private pools in back yards. No lifeguards there either. Ga State parks: "Drowing prohibited by state law!" Just kidding, you can drown if you fill out proper permits and pay a small fee. Anyways, they did not have a life guard there either. But realistically, trying to get a life guard to say that he saw my son...as compared to thousands of people a day who swim at the beach, pool , etc...Can't see it happening. Maybe at a private club or something. Anyways, my original point was this: Some things..just like Religious award( for example) or traveler AB are not done in the presence of a Den Leader. The DL does not (necessarily, but could) go to your church or bible study. I am reasonably sure he doesn't go on vacation with you, and reasonably won't go to the same beach, pool, sound as you at the same time. I do want to stres that I am NOT trying to bypass the DL, it's just that my son speant the time during the course of the whole summer ...which also happens to be when my pack takes time off from being active on a weekly basis....spent a bunch of time in the water and did indeed meet all the requirements. I also do not want to comeoff as a CM telling a DL that he must check it off. I will leave it comepleatly up to the DL , but don't want him to think I am using any CM "authority" ( or whatever you call it) over him.

Our pack shares a 4' X 6' scout trailer with our troop. Same Co so it does work out great. We have 4 20# bottles for 3 double burner cookers. Now, I hear a few people laugh at trailering when camping, and I guess it depends on what camping you are doing, but I haven't heard of anybody stuffing a 20# bottle in their backpack yet. So I guess if your gonna cook with at least one 20 pounder, go ahead and pull the trailer.

Well, just for the sake of arguement, what if the LDS did have the most numbers? Is it, or "would it be" that far from normal if the LDS did have some pull? You know what I mean. If any group is made predominantly made up of any one ethnicity, sect, or just a particular line of thinking...well usually ( not always) that gropup has more pull just for the sake of having the most vested members. Okay, it may not be LDS. Maybe ( again, for sake of arguement) if BSA is predominantly made up of people who are also members of PETA, then policies might reflect a lean towards PETA "like" stances and policies. Kinda a majority thing. Again, not argueing wether LDS is or not, but just saying that any group that does have a signifigant majority, usually does have a slight or at least noticeable influence.

I did it the night before last. Okay, I've seen worse stuff, seen better. While I think classroom is always better( ever raise your hand for a question at a laptop? LOL! ), The online seem to get to the main point. The only thing I didn't like was that the scenerio seems to be for people who are brand new to scouting and never having a single minute of interaction in scouting. Know what I mean? It's geared up as if the minute I clicked on take course was also the very first experience with scouting at all.

Burned out? WOW! I bet so. You did quite a bit of work there. The only thinng I would say you ought to do differently ( keep in mind for next year) is the first meeting after roundup. Actually, not sure how your signup goes, but our goes like this: The DE goes to school and a rally is held in the gym for the boys. He does his little presentation and gets the boys excited so they talk about nothing but Scouting all week to their parents. The following week, we hold a sign up night, where the DE does 90% of the talking to the parents who are sick of their kids talking about scouting and want them to shut up! The Cm's of each pack stand up, introduce themselves and say a little something about the pack. Pretty standard stuff. Okay, back to first pack meeting. As the new Cub Master, this will be my first time to stand up and say some stuff to get the kids excited. Then I tell the whole "signs up' concept. I ask them if they want to have fun in scouting. They yell YES! Then we kick the kids outside with the existing scouts and den leaders. Now we talk to the parents only. We lay down the law: We love kids, We have fun with kids, we like mentoring and teaching kids...but we ARE NOT BABY SITTERS! WE expect parents to maintain control of their Tigers and we expect parents to let their kids know how to behave or else! 3 or 4 parents usually figure out this is not what they trhought it was ( babysitting) and leave with the kids in tow. Everybody else tend to keep trheir kids somewhat managable and as time goes by, the kids turn out to be pretty god kids as long as your program doesn't sound like Ben Stein doing roll call : "Beuller, Beuller, Beuller..." I mean, basically, we don't expect too much out of the kids during the first meeting, but let the parents know that we do expect something from them! Anyways, Your doing fine. You had a summer to chill out ( ha ha ha ) and now it's back into high gear. I will bet that in 1 month, you'll have that familair smile back on your face again!

Boomer, I'm not in a position to rent. The canoe we rented was 2 states over in Ga while on vacation. We stayed in a cabin in a Ga state park. Here in NC, along the coast..at least in my local area, there are no canoe rentals. But that would be the best idea if it were plausible.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Well, we don't have a local pool. We are a coastal pack. Sure, alot of the families have pools, but not of a size suitable for demonstrating Aquanaut. My son did most of his in a lake( plenty of room). Not rushing it, just that my son already worked on it during the whole summer. He spent a whole summer practicing and doing what alot of scouts do in a 3 day weekend.

Okay, I have a question concerninga particular Webelos Activity Badges. I do know that in Webelos Scouts, signoff is now the den leaders job instead of the parents job. Totally respect and actually prefer that the DL has that responcibility instead of a parent who may not fully "get it" when it comes to advancement. But then you have a few exceptions like traveler and earning a religious award. The DL cannot always be present, nor can those necessarily be covered ( in entirety) in a den setting. But what about Aquanaut? My pack doesn't run full steam /full time in the summer. We have the 3 activity days or more during summer, but that's it. WEll, this summer, my son has learned, practiced and demonstarted the various requirements for the completion of the Aquanaut Activity Badge. Some happened at pool parties, some at the beach, some in our own pool, and some while on vacation two states away from home. Now, would it be legitimate to ask the DL to sign of on this Activity Badge? Now, since I just became Cub Master, I especially DO NOT want to appear to be pushing " my authority" ( LOL! I get a image of a pot belly sherrif in a small town who is on the take! ) or trying to tell my DL's to "give" my son anything. So, my question is: Should my son have to demonstrate all the requirements for Aquanaut to the DL or could the DL take my and my son's word for it. Not trying to single out my son. Matter of fact, I actually wonder this about all the Webelos who might have met the requirements over the summer while the pack was "on vacation". Your thoughts?

Q: What do you call a schizophrenic Leader? A: A committee!

There are three types of people: Those who can count, and those who can't.

A group of boy Scouts were guests at a joint military exercise at a military port. The Scoutmaster and the boys were invited front and center next to a big aircraft carrier. Before starting, a Navy Admiral and a Marine General greet the Scoutmaster. They talked a few minutes and somehow, the conversation of who had the bravest men started. The Marine General yells to a marine on deck of aircraft carrier: "Marine! Catch that jet that's landing!" The airman tries to obey orders and is immediately killed. With a big grin, the General says: "Gentlemen, that is bravery!" The Navy Admiral laughs at the General and says: "No, I'll show you brave." He then shouts orders a sailor on the pier: "Sailor! Catch that anchor!" The sailor tries and is immediatly crushed to death by the anchor. "Now that is bravery!" replies the Admiral. Then the Scoutmaster steps up. "Boys, I need you to undo all the ropes securing the ship and retie all of them." The SPL looks at the ScoutMaster and says : Screw you! I'm not doing that!" The ScoutMaster looks at the Sr military officers and beaming, says:" That is real bravery!"

Buffalo, Now that you mention it, I was sitting about a foot or so in front of the back seat. It was about 24" beam at THAT spot, but I'd say no more than 30" at the widest point. Had a Brother in law and nephew beside us in identicle canoe. Pretty much the majority of our conversations were: "Stop! Your gona tip it! Don't do that! Wait! Stop!" LOL! It was my opinion that the canoes were a bit unstable, but figured my lack of canoeing experience was to blame. The canoes were aluminum, but years of scrapes and scrathes obscurred any name brand. The vessle tag that was rivited to the boat was woorn slam out. Even the Ga State parks logo was almost worn out. If it matters, I live about 100 yards from the intracoastal waterway and am not familiar with too mant lakes actually big enough to boat in around here. There is the Cape Fear river, and the waterway. Pretty much all of my canoeing will be done there. As for a starter canoe, I don;'t want to spend a bunch of money, just in case i discover that canoeing isn't what I thought it might be. Yeah, I have been raised with having a motor on the back of my boats.

A while back, I asked about canoe recomendations. WEll, let me add this: I went to Ga last week and had the oppertunity to canoe with my son. The Ga state parks rented out 18 foot aluminum canoes. They seemed well built, but with all the use, I could not make out the brand on the rivited tag. I am 6'2" tall and 248 pounds/ My son sat on the front seat, but I had to sit in the floor about 2' in front of the rear seat as the canoe wanted to eject me. I mean, it REALLY wanted to. Basically, the weight/ hieght ratio was not in my favor! Oh, the canoe was maybe 24" wide....maybe. The gunwhale was 15" tall. So I saw this one online at WalMart.com: http://www.walmart.com/ip/KL-WaterQuest-156-Canoe/14550411 It's 15'6" long, 18 inches tall and *** 40" wide ***. Way wider than the aluminum one and is "supposed" to hold 3 people as compared to the two person capacity label (stenciled in spray paint) on the rental canoe. It's that polyethylene injection molded plastic material. For a first time /beginners canoe...what do you think? If it's a great begginer canoe, say so. If it's total crap, tell me. If it's middle of the road, tell me that too. I will say I plan on using it, but not talking about daily use. Might be 3 times a week in the summer, 1 time a week in the spring fall. Or vice versa. Depends...never had a canoe before.

Not being familiar withe the mom personally, It's hard to come up with an accurate assesment. But I will echo Beavah...somewhat: Telling mom she has to fork over cash because her "poor time" has expired may be the straw that breaks the camel's back and two scouts...who probably need scouting more than anybody else...will be loast from the pack. Having said that..there is absolutely nothing wrong with another parent or even a pack leader ( remember 2 deep and YP) picking up the boys for a fundraiser or CO supportive function. It may be that the boys want to help, but that is out of their control. Same as missing some meetings...they may want to go, but it's beyond their control. AS for fee based sports - again, I am not personally familiar with your area - but my son recieved a soccer sholarship when I was out of work due to cancer and surgery recovery. And the pack covered his recharter. Incidentally, they got me back by making me Cub Master! LOL! Point being, not everything is as it always appears to be, and most people don't brag about how poor they are and how much help they get. So, I'd say look at the purpose behind scouting, then look deeply as a human. But trust you gut too. Sometimes, your gut knows what you don't.

WEll, I actually like the perculating coffee pots, and if you use a filter by poking a hole in the middle, the filter soaks up most of the oil. Ijust don't want to buy a 30 or 40 cup coffee maker. 12 is towards the high side, but wouild do. I'd prefer a 8 cup or less (which is more like a 4 cup for me). Egg? Seriously? Does it not add a nasty bit of flavor? For some reason,I imagine coffee tasting like over cooked yolk.

Funscout, I think what you are doing makes all the difference in the world! If you do not agree with somebody's lifestyle...that's your right and I do not blame you. The key thing is, you are still treeating them as equals. That's cool with me. I perdsonally do not agree with things alot of people do, but still treat them equally as me, for I know there are things I do that others do not agree with. Equal treatmewnt is the key thing, not having to completely agree with or embace others ideals.

I guess I know that even on vacation, there are some things that have to be done: have to eat, clean up, shower, etc. My son still has to eat no matter how much I am on vacation. Guess the other parents didn't see it that way. When they take vacation, they turn off ALL responcibility. But other than that,it was a great vacation. Spent great quality time with my wife and son, and even had some great time with the in-laws.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)