Scoutfish

It's a tough time to sell. People are tired of school...tired of sports, tired of anything organized. They are ready to let the younginsa sleep in. The youngins can't wait to sleep in. Beaches, swimming pools, all day video game conquests... But I think your biggest adversary here is the parents. They are looking forward to not driving to or from, not dropping off and picking up..not having to reemeber this dfate or that date. They are ready to just relax a while. That's the cool thing about the scouts who are already active..they can't wait til summer break.....but after the summer is over - they can't wait to get back to scouting and camping and earning some scout bling! Having the talk to light that fire sure helps though.

If it wasn't cost prohibitive ( for me, anyways) I would get a custom shirt. I have to buy my uniform shirt one size larger than my girth in order to be somewhat closer to my length. I am 6'2" tall and weigh 256 pounds. If I sneeze wrong, my shirt will come untucked. The best I can do is buy one larger in order to get a good length. But it's actually too big around for me. So, again..If I had the money to spend on a custom shirt...I'd do it without hesitation!

As much as I love camping...I kinda miss that asthetically pleasing wallpaper bedspread designs at hotels!

I'd prefer a real scout in a fake uniform than a fake scout in a real uniform. And speaking about uniforms being "uniform...BSA's aren't. They keep changing them and there are so many variations ands reasons to be different that they are not uniform. A true uniform would be where everybody wore the exact same thing, with the exception of unit, council , jambo or awards knots. Everybody would have the same boots/shoes, and everybody would have the same hat, necker, style of hat, shirts and pants/shorts.

I thought the B.U.F.F usage was reserved for B-52 bombers.

But not trying to be cool and not giving a damn while realizing you are not cool...is cool! Being cool..from what I understand..and if you happen to be cool..starts when you are around 13 0r 14 - stays with you until you are around 25 or married ( wichever comes first) then leaves you until you are older and get to the point that you could care less if you are cool orv what other people think..at which point, you become cool for not caring if you are cool. But...as soon as you start to realize you are cool again, and you like it...you become uncool for knowing you were cool! I had my son say I was cool, to him, I had a Tiger Cub tell me I was his hero, my dog is psychotically obsessed with me, and my wife still laughts at my jokes ( sometimes). After that, anything else doesn't matter!

Anytime you take Cub Scouts outdoors..they will pick up sticks. It has to be some sort of kid instinct or something close. We do tell the kids to be carseful. Don't swing them around wildly, and everybody is responcible for not hitting anybody with their stick. But the parents...they have fits when kids pick up sticks. They just see a kid with a nasty germ laden object that is one step shy of being a CDC quarantined item. You know what I see? Kids shooting rifles, kids demonstrating their talents with epees, swords, or even Star Wars light sabers. I see kids with baseball bats, walking sticks, and machine guns. I see boys using thei imaginations...and having an awesome great time doing it!

Well, the campo gets real busy between Troops, Crews , and Ships ( couldn't say for sure why on the last one though..) but still has the usual gang of help. Maybe help is too thin/ over worked? Maybe tha humidity is right around broil on the heat index scale. Maybe ( as in my case) parenst have more work/ more hours in the summer than the rest of the year. Personally, I wish resident camp was in the fall when it is in the 70's or so in the day, but drops to the high 40's low 50's at night! Ahhh...perfect campfire/ camping weather!

No, pack leaders may not be obligated to call...but as citizens, we are. WE are obligated to make those kinds of calls for the good of the public. I say obligated, but not necessarily legally required. I see the potential killing of one innocent person outweighing embarassment in front of kids by 1,000,000,00 percent! BUT.... I =was not there. AnnLaurelB was. If she did indeed keep dad there until a time when his level of intoxication was below the in ability to safely operate his car..I see that as trhe same as taking away keys until a person is able to safely operate a car. Same as when I used to take friends keys until they were okay to drive. I'm not convinced that 90 minutes is a reliable standard due to all people being different and having different reactions and tolerances, but if she kept dad out of his car until she thougfh he was okay to drive, they she DID ACT in a manner which kept people safe. At least for now anyways. And honestly...in my opinion..it wasn't even about dad. I could care les what his opinions were. But it did keep the kids from being embarassed, horrified, and hunmiliated in front of there fellow scouts. IN a world that too many people use black and white guidelines for a gray scale world...Ann did what I see as using good judgement and common sense. I' m am assuming that if dad did get into his truck and was wasted drunk, she would have acted in a manner that was appropriate. Including calling the law.

"Given that you don't know the people involved and their respective actions that were felt by many parents at the event to be unwelcome at best, and offensive to everyone present, you are, respectfully, not in a position to judge this situation and the use of the term "allowed". Yeah, here's the thing..as we all have experienced it before - You asked a question, and the amount of info provided...was provided by you. If it was not enough...then that falls on you. If it was not clear enough( trust me, I'm an expert there) it falls on you. See, you asked people what they thought of a partricular situation - of which you provided what you deemed to be enough details. So Jamist did EXACTLY what you asked Jamist to do. The only thing I see is that you didn't like the answer. So what? It bappens. Not everybody agrees with me, sees things the way I do...nor do they always use the same expressions or terminology. And to clarify, Jamist was completely correct on the phrase he took you to task on: "Allowed". Packs can have PWD all they want. There is no higher authority ( other than the CO) who can tell them no. Packs do not have to apply for permission to hold a PWD in the district or council. It's up to the pack and any volunteers who are willing. And what comes off abrasive is that this is the first time you participated in a PWD and you are already tossing out that YOU do not think they ought not to be allowed to hold another one. And, I mean no disrespect , nor is this malicous..but honestly, what experience do you base that one? This is your first PWD. Nowq, from your original post, I agree that your packs PWD could be run much, much better. But you have to realize you can't just run in and tell people what they are doing wrong when you haven't done it yourself. It's always easy to look from the outside and throw blame. I hope you join the PWD committee and use that energy to work with chaninging and implimenting a better event. But I will caustion you: go in and start telling everybody that they are doing everything all wrong...and you will end up being a one man PWD committee! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

WOW! 10 Arrow Points? That's alot. How long did that take? I mean, you have to have 10 electives to earn 1 arrow point. Even completeing all electrives and using qualifying unused ahievements..10 arrow points is alot. Did they build 85 model planes or what? I'd definantly get on about the screaming ting though. Not cool, not welcome, and not in the spirit of scouting. And tell her that having all the training does not make one a leader.They have to be given that spot by the COPr or whatever the usual; leadership process is at the pack. I had my NC certified Fire Fighter level III training, my NC certified Emergency Medical Technition training, and I was Fla Public Safety Water Rescue Technition Level III trained to. This did not automatically get me a job with EMS, fire stations, water rescue squads, or allow me to operate an ambulance.

I'd think they were being resourceful and thrifty. Thing is, what is the honor attached to an offical uniform, or the shame that is attached to a "fake" uniform? What is it about the officail uniform that makes it better or represents anything other than more cash into BSA's pocket? NOTHING! Thing is, it's so easy for anybody to say "Oh, just buy the reral thing and get it over with." But to the person whoi is doing it, maybe they are at the end of their budget...and yes, 1 single shirt can make a huge difference. I wore a pair of olive green fishing pants that I bought from Sam's Club for $ 8.00 They looked identical to BSA's offical pants . Zippers the same. beltloops the same, pockets the same...just missing that made in another country tag and the offical logo. I didn't get my offical BSA pants until tax time allowed me the extra $$$$$ to spend. And you know what? It didn't change me, the program my cubs experienced or how well the pack functioned. The only thing that changed was the scout shop made another $52.78 sale that day. Reminds me of people who used to snub those of us who bought our Levi's jeans at Wal-Mart for $15.00 because they bought their exact same Levi's jeans at Belks for $50.00. Yeah, let the fools laugh - they paid more than 3 times as much as me for the exact same thing. Yeah, the joke is on me all right! But you could also see somebody being smart by maybe using a shirt they already had in theior closet. Maybe they never wore the shirt. But for absolutely no cost, they could transfer the patches, buttons, etc.. and have a uniform shirt who's only difference is that the scout shop didn't make a bunch of bucks off of!

Ooops! I over spoke, Tigers were not considered Wolves afterall. We just let then participates since most Tiger parenst were also Wolf, Bear or Webelos parents and would be at camp and not leaving their Tiger age kids at home. But Bears were considered Webelos at the camp.

Nah, It was resident camp. But like I said,, they do not do them during summer, so they are crammed into a weekend because school is still in. Why? Beats me. But that's what they do. http://www.capefearcouncilbsa.org/images/stories/pdfs/camps/Spring%20Cub%20Camp%20brochure.pdf

I can see where Bears could have particip[ated as Webelos. In our council, they hold Cub Scout resident camp about a month and a half before summer which puts it before the June 1st date. Since they do not have a summer resident camp for cub scouts - what they do is consider Tigers as Cubs and Bears as Webelos for the sake of the camp. Of course, part of the reason is because so may packs crossover their Webelos into boy scouts in Feb as well as graduate their other cubs to the next rank by B&G. Depending when the event was held...say....maybe only a week before June 1st, then I see no harm in fudging earning any Activity pins..especially since the dates could be correct by the time it is recorded. Our pack had crossover the 1st wqeek of April, and the rest of the pack graduated the 3rd week of April. As far as we are concerened, they are the next rank. But we don't rush working on acxhiebemenst or what not..instead, we let them work on belt loops and such

"....dates all the way back to 2010" Wow! All the way back then? I suddenly feel really old. I date back to "Long ago, far, far away" ...in 1971 ! Edited because I am still learning this italics stuff!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I may be completely wromng , and aknowledge that I may be as accurate as a football bat when I say this, but isn't it the Jehovah's witnesses who think Jesus hasn't risen yet? Or maybe it was another group I hear of. Basically, they agree that he dies, but do not feel he has resurected ...YET. They have no doubt he will, but not yet. My own "supposed to be" religion is Episciple.. Honestly, although I believe and have my faith, I will say it is not constrained to any one organized religions...so again, I may be as accurate as that football bat - but at my fathers Epsiciple funeral, Father Tim ( who was presiding) made a statement about all spirits still being within their dead shell of a body in a state of rest that is comparable as a LONG restfull nap. And they were waiting for judgement day and the resurectiion to rise up and be in the kingdom of God. And I cannot even begin to think of quoting him, but it came4 out along the lines of the bresurection still to come. Now, ask anybody at my parents church and they will not hesitate to tell you that they are indeed christains. Ask the Jehovahs, (or at least the few I know) and they will say the same. So it rteally comes down to individual or groupo thinking. Buyt then again, people who enslaved and killed others without blinking based on being a different skin color or religion have no doubt they are christians either.

Being the first year in scouts, it is a big learning year. For example, while I agree that the stop block does need to be changed based on your description, you have to realize that it isn't set up to help or hurt one group of cars over another. A block is just that...a block. You can't really control how it helps or hurts cars other than it does it the same for everybody. AS far as how races are set up...scan through the forums or do a search on PWD and see how many times this is brought up. Youy want to know what the perfect sysytem is? So does everybody else. If you find it, let the rtest ogf us know. Our pack bought a program trhat goes with our electronic timer/finish gate. No eyeballing the finish. Whet theb timer says is what the timer says. MPH and times are projected on a wall for everybody to see and the timer at the end of the track shows finishing position of 1,2,3, or 4. AS for staopping, our ramp raises up in the middle of the lane as to pick the car wheels off the track...but sometimes a really slick painted car that is fast will slide past the stop ramp. Our soulutin? A sweatshirt stuffed into a milk crate. Works great! Times are final. All cars race each lane once and all heats are random selected bu the program. All cars race 4 times and the slowest time is dropped by the program. Now, we just got an aluminum track this past year after years of using wood tracks. Parents would complain, dads especially. Scouts - not so much. What we did was p[oint out that if everybody from our pack donated $10.00, that would pay for the track, and then the cars hitting edges or having un even lanes would go away. Humidity and temperature wouldn't affect the track either. THis past year, I brought up all info and rules about PWD at a pack meeting 3 months ahead of time. WE set up 2 workshops with the track and a final test run day a week before the race. WE told everybody to stick to the rules if they wanted to race. Period! At all 3 events, I had officail rules displayed. On race day, we enforced those rules. NO exceptions! One final thing though...the boys are not so into the miniscule details and they aren't nearly as nit picky as any parent. I saw scouts whose cars would get shaking side to side and cause a wreck. The parents were beside themselves getting all upset. The scouts were all "Ooohing" and " Ahhing" and exclaiming how cool the wreck was. The bigger the wreck, the bigger the bragging rights. Oh yeah, just before the race, I stood up and told everybody that the PWD rface is a pack event designed to help the boys be creative. It is for boys to get together and have fun. The point is to have a great time...winning isn't the goal, just a bonus. But most importantly, it's about the boys, not the parents so mom and dad needed to keep their own egos in check. THis year, alot of parents and scouts said they had a better time at PWD.

I heare you! in about a month and a halfs time- in consequetive weekends: First weekend - Webelos Crossover ceremony. the next weekend - worked Council camp staff the next weekend - Pack campout pack graduation ceremony the next weekend - pack fundraiser dinner the next weekend - worked on/with an Eagle project this weekend - Tiger graduation ceremony( for those who didn't attend pack ceremony) (stormy weather) Upcoming weekend - finally a weekend with nothing to do ..so.....I'll probably be bored!

Yep! Get on or chair next years PWD committee. It it was that bad of a race, well, I'm sure alot of people will speak up for change next year. But I do want to clarify on one detail you mentioned: " All the cars did not have equal disadvantage because of different weight distribution, etc. " There's nothing wrong or unfair about that. Every car builder gets to put their weight to where they think it helps their car perform the best it can. I like to see the weights about 1" in front of the rear tires...unless the design of the car merits it elsewhere. There is no universal weight placement for cars. That in itself would create weight disadvantages based on the shape, style and design of the car. If you create a standard required weight placement, you will have to create and require a standard required shape too. Me? I got on the PWD committee to ensure even application of all rules and to make sure everybody folloed then to be fair to the cubs. Belioeve it or not, it's usually non leader parents who try to push the bar or get around rules. (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I was just browsing through the web looking for interesting ideas for cub ceremonies and campout when I ran across an article on granulated Chlorine and Pine Sol, and another on steel wool and a 6 vot battery. As for the chlorine and Pine Sol...well..the "magic of it sounds awesome..but I get the mental picture of scouts and parents laying on the ground in convulsions and frothy blood spewing out of their mouths and eyes. Now, I know it probably wouldn't be that bad, but still..isn't this somewhat close to cynide gas or what you use to kill an elephant in a gas chamber? Then there is the steel wool. Sounds cool too, but dos it explode or flash fire? Do hotfragments of steel wool go exploding through te air? What about the battery? Does it get hot or is there a chance it explodes? Again, mental picture of a bunch of people in their 40's getting around with walking sticks and service dogs , scarred faces coverd with blind person glasses. Maybe they talk about that campout that was soo freaking cool until their CM blinded them for life. So have you done these? ARe there some more involved staeps that might have been left out? I really like the idea of the visual the chlorine gas and pine sol could give - based on the story of using last years ashes and this years scout spirit to start a fire...but the risks seem kinda extreme.

Yeah. looks like a shooting star to me and nothing like a rainbow. Matter of fact, looks like those stars from "The More you know" PSA's tv actors have to do when they get busted for being drunk or something: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+more+you+know%22+PSA&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nNnNTeLDAoXAtgfIvdyCDg&ved=0CFgQsAQ&biw=1419&bih=715(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

" I'm seeing something more in earth tones, maybe camo ... " Would that be a visual LNT rainbow?

I have IE. Not sure it it's 7 or 8 though...if that matters. Just bought this computer about 2 or so ago. Uses Windows 7 if that makes a difference either. My last one has Windows XP

Old school just works better some times