Scoutfish

Just saying..man has changed religions so much toi suit their own needs. man has run with his own interpretation that he might be off a bit. and given time, we end up nowhere close to what we started with. Peoples knowledge of what is what in religion has evolved, changed and been modified so much..plus toss in a bunch of how each of us understands it( or not) and the info is no more accurate that what the popular view is at the time.

Eagledad, What do YOU think? I mean it just like that too. Forget what anybody else...collectively or singularly thinks. Forget what "the establishment" thinks. I say this because each person is unique in what they truely and faithfully believes. You can go through the motions of a Christain, but if you don't truely believe..then it's all for nothing. You may not actually go through the motions, but could truyely believe ( that's what I'd consider the better of the two) what counts . At one time, society as a whole would outcast others for not being Christains when in fact, it was just not being exactly like the first party. Remember the Salem witch trials? How about women in pants? How about those scournfull women who actually let their ankles see daylight? Oh the shame of it all! At one time, people would label other people who did not share the same beliefs as non Christains or worse: devil worshipers. Then look at organized religion in general: For every thing that is probably correct, there is another which has been misconstrued, warped or chhanged just for the sake of keeping power. Ole King Henry the 8th wanted to get divorced , but that was a big ole sinfull no no! Uh -uh...you get divorced and you were going to get really hot when you died. So what to do right? Hey! Why not create another religion, or another of the current one where it is in fact, okay and blessed to get divorced? Then, without saying you have to agree / disagree or take sides...look at all the gay clergy issues. Used to it was without a doubt wrong. But now.....there are two sides or factions if you will. Some are okay witrh it, others are not? Why? People! And don't get me wrong - I have my faith, but I also know that man printed the bible. Man translated and edited the bible to suit his needs. I do not think for a minute that God has ever contradicted himself, but the bilbe, which was written by man does have contradictions, and conflict. The bible isn't even complete and some chapters kinda leave stuff out or cut off short . Why? Because man tries to take any and everything and tries to use it for his own gain. Politics, power, control. The bible says ( in a nutshell) that Jesus said we are a temple to God. Yet we are led to believe prayers outside of church ( or a collection plate) don't count or have as much effect. Preachers will preach every Sunday about why we are soppused to be humble and to bow before God while shrugging ofrf the world and all of it's eveil materialistic things...right before they climb into their high priced limos and Cadillacs that they tell you they especially desrve as a man of the cloth. Then there is the whole Sabbath. It's really on Saturday, but if you mention it, you get hushed or told not to stir things up. Really? If God says we rest on the Sabbath, then we rest..unless it'c inconveinent - right? I know people who totally bel,ive in Jesus, but they do not think the ressurection has happened...YET! Thedy know it will, but don't think it has happened yet. I also know some who think the rapture has already happened and we are living a hell of earth as we speak. WE are being given the final test to see where we will end up. Me? I'm just going along for the ride. I don't know a whoe lot, but I know man has screwed up alot of religion!

My point of view is this: Take the phone if you want, but if you use it, it had better be an emergency on the part of the person on either side of the phone. And just like it is during school or football or baseball practice: The teachers and coaches will not let you use it or have it out during the activity you are supposed to be doing. Same could be said of chucrh or a movie, etc... Have it with you - just in case. But until that "just in case" happens, leave it in your tent, your pack or your pocket. This is also a great time to point out conserving battery power for the chance that something does happen. But here's another side of things: Although Scouts is not the same as Navy Seal or Special Ops survival school....it is about becoming self sufficent on your own in things like compass and map reading and finding your way. I can't remember the movie or show I saw way back when...about a futuristic society that was so dependant on electronics and machinery that they could NOT live without them,. And one day, a big glitch happened. All the machines, scanners, tv's, phones, ....everything shut down. Dr's were actually just assistants to computers, so now Dr';s couldn't even set a simple fracture. Dentists couldn't do anything to teeth. Cops didn't know what to do with people. People couldn't add anything higher than the sum of 100. In te ned, the underground society that had been shunned and who never had the luxery of depending on machines ended up being the survivors. Yeah, BSA and scouting isn't that extreme...but you see where I am going? Do we want our kids to just be good at what is in style and available, or do we want them to be truely self sufficent ...enough to survive without ba cell phone, vcr or cable tv box. Hey, they might even have to learn to cook without a microwave one day. I'm just saying, if a scout cannot put the phone down for one day ( except a true emergency) then maybe he just doesn't need to be in the woods afterall.

I guess I always saw it in simple terms: I respect your views and I respect your right to have them. I also expect you to respect my right to have my own views wether you agree to them or not. Majority rules is the case when dealing with a majority, but not everything is ruled by anybody but the individual. As you posted about birthday..then yes, majority rules. The individual can opt out ofd participating . But if teh majority decides on a rule that all individuals MUST participate....then it is way wrong as it is trying to rule on an individual freedom. And as mentioned before - if I do not like beer or alcohol, I do not need to go to bars. But if I am at a restaurant that also serves beers, I should not be offended by my beer drinking friends making their own choices when I drink tea. And that's the thing about tose who get offended: People do all kinds of stuff. And 99.99.99.99 % of the time, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with me. If I become offended when they do that...It is because I choose to be offended or let it offend me. And that means the issue is me, not them!

Family Promise? I've heard of this...though I can imagine there are different meanings and versions out there Yep, the family promises to be involved with the scout, scouting and be a family that does stuff together..

I forgot to add: Nothing beats the look of satisfaction on the face of a kid whio just built ......whatever that thing .....is! I don't always know what it is, but he built it, he built it all by himself and he's damn proud...just as I am!

I guess it's not an entire spin off of a thread, but a spin of of a comment within a reply within a thread. Maybe it's the same circumstances in a different age rank. Cub scouts get bored with the program too. They get tired of the same dull thing. But is it that it's dull or is it because we do not let them do as much as they would like to do or as much as they are able to do. My mom is a great person. She has a heart of gold and will bend over backwards to help anybody out. WEll, that's her downfall too. Not that long ago, while I was working on something in our woodshop, my son decided he wanted to make a box to hold all his Lego pieces. HE measured, marked and planned it all out while I used my radial arm saw to cut the pvc board for him. All I did was cut the boards to the length he marked. After that, it was all up to him. ell, my mom walks into the shop and she turns to him like a heat seeking missle aiming for an active volcano! She starts telling him everything he is doing wrong, why he should be doing this or that, and then takes the box he is building off the workbench countertop and puts it on the floor and tells him he can hammer nails better that way. In less than 1 minute, she is pulling some of his nails out and resetting them elsewhere.She completely took over and he pretty much quit his project. I had to stop her and I told her (not an exact quote , okay) "Look, I know you mean well, but your really not helping as much as you'd like to think. One, it's not a finished piece of furniture going on display, but just a box that he totally made up all the dimensions to in less than 3 minutes. He made up the plans on the fly. He is just going to put Lego's in it. I learned more stuff by making mistakes than just having somebody tell me everything and doing it for me. You need to let him build it, and let him learn from any mistakes he makes. Besides, in his eyes, it's a GREAT box " And you know..I see this alot in Cub Scouts too: Mom or dad sees that Jr isn't building a gallery quality piece of precision ..whatever, so they grab it and start doing it for themselves. WEll, like tying shoes, perfection comes over time through one mistake after another. You can learn more from having to undo something and redo it correctly ( yourself) than having somebody take over after every single mistake.. Of course, I know all of you understand that concept just fine. But the parents? How many times have you looked around and sen mom or dad building the craft and the scout was way over yonder with the other scouts and they are playing tag, fighting with sticks, etc... Or they are sitting beside mom or dad , and are bored because they are not doing the activity? "Over the years, I've seen a lot of things that have not gone as well as maybe I might have liked and the Scouts know haven't gone as they planned or imagined. " And I bet that was the stuff they learned from that made them better scouts too! I bet they had more fun screwing up by themselves( and learning from it) than watching somebody else doing it correctly for them!

We have a 20 page " Pack 235 Parent Orientation Guide" It explains basic BSA stuff like advancement. what G2SS is and how it applies, basic YPT stuff, dues and insurances cost, plus break down of dues and what each dolar is used for. WE explain advancement awards and BL and what is expected and what parents should expect. ( we are not baby sitters, etc..) WE cover things like rules of the pack, rules of the CO and rules of our council. WE made a point to triple space our guide for 2 reasons: 1) Too much stuff crammed together, and people barely scan it. 2) Notes can be added here and there by parents

I too believe that alot of the dynamic depends on what you have as a committee. When I joined into my pack ( by this, I mean becoming an active parent when my son joined ) There wasn't much of a committee. The then CM was also acting as CC, treasurer, and secretary. The ACM did all the stuff the CM was supposed to do, but couldn't because of doing the other stuff. At that time, my son's DL had a den of 24 boys...which EVERYBODY but the DL knew was way too many. Anyways, long story short, we had a guy step up to be CC. And a great CC he became. The very first thing he did was find a treasurer. After that, every other posituion either fell into place, or became easier: DL's would write a name to monet turned in by den members, but bthen turn it over to the Treasurer instead of having to keep track of their den accounts and den member accouts, Instead of running around as a group planning everything, the CC took over the details and delegation. DL and ADL only had to focus on den stuff instead of ALL the pack stuff. Basically, if you have a committee that does it's job, then all other leaders can focus on tei jobs. In my pack, people didn't want to be leaders or assit leaders because they sw all the work involved. After I took over as CM, I concentrated on program and what the leaders needed to be able to do their jobs. THis past year, every den had (at minimum) 1 DL, and two ADL's. One dean had two DL's who broke their roles into different parts of the rank requirements ( hey...it worked great, so I didn't interfear ) Most dens had 3 ADL's and a den secretary/ den treasurer. Next year, 3 of ourt dens are going to split into 2 new dens each ..if the amount of scouts validates it. Why the split? We actually have adults who can't wait to be leaders.

... who can't put on jacket when it's cold or a raincoat when it's raining if mom isn't there to tell 'em to. Yeah, that's a mom thing too. Most of thjose kids are running around and creating enough heat that they aren't cold anyways...but you know how it is...they might catch their death of cold!

Scoutfish - I understand what you're saying, but I still just don't understand why there should be a distinctive BSA uniform element to recognise basic first aid training. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree No..apparently not. It is not a fel good , "hey look at me" toot my horn thing. My idea was only...and I repeat only so that in the event something happened, and the trained person started to act on it, the people around trhem would see the designation and know that a person with some training is trying to help their child ( or spouse as the case may be) , and not just somebody who has no clue who is just reacting. And authority does not have 1 single meaning. As adult leaders, we have somewhat - although limited - authroity on the scouting program. Camp directord have authority over what may or may not go on during camp. By authority, I mean somebody with a higher level of knowledge of what needs to be done. Yes, it is that simple. For example : " Bob is the local authority on dinosuars and fossils." Nope, no actual authority or ability to tell people what to do..but is somebody with a higher degree of knowledge on the subject at hand...which in this case is CPR or the latest training in AND First aid. "True paramedic Authority would be Paramedic level of knowledge and training. Incidentally, they do have authority in emergency situations. Of course, it varies from state to state , but in the state of NC, during an emergency situation firefighters are given the ame recognition and commnded the same respect as law enforcement. During sitautions such as wrecks, they (n as well as paramedics) can outrank law enforcement. Back when I was Asst Chief, I actually used that power twice to override a local law enforcement officers command as his directions would have not only hampered the triage of the scene, but could in fact put more people in danger. Did he like it? Uh -Uh...not at all. Is it something you carelessly throw around? Nope! But it is there. Again, varies state to state. But anyways, that isn't the point. I am using authority in the sense of knowledge. And I mean it in the respect of a trained person versus somebody who has no training at all. "Forgot to add, why do adults need recognition for something that is expected of scouts?" Okay, I wasn't clear. That's cool - my apologies. It isn't a form of recognition to say " Hey look what I did!" But as recognition for parents to see that somebody is trained in the event help is needed. Same reason police officers have badges or paramedics have patches. Sure, driving up in a vehicle with lights and sirens is a pretty good indicator, but they don't stop there. Imagine this situation: You are at a ball game or a zoo, racetrack..whatever. Big place. lots of people. Your spouse, has a heart attack or your kid cuts his hand open on a chainlink fense or whatever. You know how it is, 300 people gather around and 40 of them start giving all kinds of wonderful suggestions. Of course, all the suggestions are different and they might even bicker amongst themselves over what to do. Assuming you were a non trained person, and didn't know what to do...who would you let try to treat your kid? Which person would you feel safe doing something? Then one of the zoo people, track workers, employees, etc... come up and youy see a first aid patch on their shirt. They say they know what to do and can help. Granted, the adrenalin is still flowing, but seeing that patch calms you down some...or at least gives you comfort in the fact you know they have knowledge of what to do and nbot just an idea like the majority of the bystanders. But, as mentioned earlier, I like the idea of the lanyard with the bold letterd card around trhe neck. Now you guys know how it is: At your average pack, not every parent shows up for every meeting. When we go pack camping, the mom who usually takes her kid to meetings might stay at home and make a ladies weekend with other moms and dad, who is never at meetings , comes camping. Maybe it's just that one parent who always brings their kids to meetings, but both go camping along with grandpa and grandma.The parent who always goes to meetings is helping with an activity across the camp, but the other parent is just chilling out and enjoying the camping. I am thye Cub Master, have been at my pack for 3 years now, and I do not know every parent. Not one adult leader knows every parent. I see dad's intoducing wives to den leaders...even though that WEbelos scout has been with us for 5 years. So depending on who comes, you just added 3 people who are not familiar with any of the leadership or who might be in charge of, trained in, or capable of doing ..whatever. Maybe an older brother or sister is there too. But supposing grandma falls over in cardiac arrest, and grandpa and dad who never goes to meetings see 3 or 4 adults standing 25 feet away hanging out, and to the other side are a few more adults hanging out - but one has the red lanyard around his neck with a bright white card with big red letters on it. They might not even be able to read the leters, but know from a prior announcement what it means. Well, grandpa and dad can go straight to or yell for that person instead of just running around asking who might be able to do....anything or....something! Again, I am stresing it is not a "Ooooh, look what I did" trhing. It is a "This is the person to ask for help" thing.

Ooops! I didn't mention it's dependant on the age too. Tiger prety much only do the marshmellow over the fire with a 36 inch stick. Wolves might mix and help prepare foods, then cook hot dogs on sticks. bears will help with DOs and hot dogs and burgers on grills. Webelos do all of it. WE go by age and how well they seem to be able to handle trhemselves.

When we go pack camping, we use two double burner propane griddles. You know the type? They are on 30" adjustable legs..they take apart and will fit into a 32" X 15" X 6 " box. WEll, we give the boys serving gloves and let them drop sausage patties on the grill, pour pancake mix from a ladel onto the grill and they will tend to and flip and remove the sausage and pancakes when they are done. Same for hamburgers and hot dogs. WE do not let them lighgt the burners or any cooking appliances. We do not let them work with huge pots of boiling water ( for grits, potatoes, beans or whatever you cook in water). WE let them drop dutch ovens into coals with a custom handle we made, and let them use a full size( handle) shovel to cover the DO with coals. Then there are the smores, marshmellows, hotdogs, etc...that are cooked on sticks o0ver the fire. But everything we let them do, they have full adult supervison. Again, they do not light anything, and we use only a campfire or regulated gas propane devices - no kerosene, white gas, or other liquid cooking fuels.

Okay, I have a question about the hammocking: What about bugs and insects? You coat yourself with repelant or do you have some sort of sheer cocoon you climb into? Okay, more honestly: I HATE SPIDERS!!! I'd rather wrassle with a raccon and rattle snake than have a spec of pepper size harmless spider crawl on me. I can imagine the comfort to be superior to laying in a bag on the ground. In the winter, just a thick sleeping bag in the hammock? Maybe a tarp/rain fly pulled over a rope over the hammock?

KC9DDI, I used to be a certified Emergency Medical Technition in the state of NC, I was also a certified Level III firefighter ( it ws as high as you could go inn NC at the time - now they combined parts of I with II, and the rest of II with half of III and no longer have a stand alone III course. I was also a certfied Water rescue level III which was contracted by Fla Public Safety out of Fla. They set the standards of training in Fla. BVy authority, I do not mean experts, but sometrhing trhat says: "Hey, I took a real class taught by a real instructor who happens to be a professional certified by the Dept of Health and human resources and under the Office of Emergency Medical Services - not by just watching tv for a bunch of years or assuming you might know." And I'll be honest: In every crowd, trhere is a "Norm" whio is the unofficial expert on everything. He is the guy who would say the paramedics should inject the patient with 5 mm of cc! If that idiot presents a halfway authentic sounding arguement, mom or dad could and would liely try to stop the trained person from doing something "wrong". That's why I like the idea of a card or some sort of designation to say: "het, I really do know what to do until the paramedics get there". And that is the only "authority" I am talking about. Not real, true paramedic authority. Just something to say that we are not just guessing what to do. Also, it wasn't just a CPR class, but basic full emergency first aid. Now me? I haven't been with Fire or EMS in around 16 years ( marrage does that to yah)but I still remember almost all of it. Our counciul camp is about 12 miles from the closest town with EMS service. Sure, there is a camp safety officer when full camp is going on, but packs can rent camping time alone or camp for fre during service weekends. There are 2 big lake and who knows how many ditches at THAT camp. Then we have a local camp which also has a lake ( well...more like a pond with an attitude!) nplus numerous creeks and ditches. It's about 7 miles from the closest EMS station. Our pack is also on the coast. We do activities at a soundside park/pier/boat landing. It's on the intracoastal waterway. Lots of water. So yeah, I will bet our most common emergencies will be from scouts swinging sticks, falling out of trees, or playing with pockets knives when they are not supposed to be. After that, I'll go with stings, bites and snakebites. But not as likely does not mean never. And when that odd occasion comes along, I do not want a childs welfare to be obstructed by the same people who just absolutely know for a fact that a cop cannot write a ticket without his hat on or it's void. THose are the people who will say that the CPR or whatever first aid is being done wrong. And a panacky parent is already scared, full of doubts and will do anything to do what they think is best ...wether it is wright or wrong....to help their child. "Now in a large camp setting, you would want something for those individuals who are certified. At our day camp this year, we will have our medical staff at HQ, but then, any individual who is CPR certified will wear an additional lanyard that has the letters CPR in bright red on it. Everybody has been told at training, that the ones that are certified and current will have this." Hey! This is a GREAT IDEA! Okay, I do see the downside of a patch if there was one to be worn. It's hard enough to get a leader to take of his "trained" patch when he changes duties or positions. I wouldn't want a patch that did not apply. Thanks! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

You know what is sad? There are alot of fools who need to believe those rules exist! The population is getting bigger and bigger. Unfortunatly, so are the number adult people who light campfires with 3 gallons of gas, who bring a 18 pack of Bud because it's just no big deal, and who will ruin your whole troop if you just give them the chance!

Just finished hosting a CPR/AED ? First Aid class for our Adult leaders/ parents tonight. It was something I had been thinking about for a while. Never know when something could happen while on a camping triup or at a scouting event or go see it activity. Having somebody trained in CPR/ A.E.D. and First Aid is a good thing - getting the leadership and as many parents as possible trained is just way better. Had 12 take the class. I had contacted a local instructor who works as a paramedic for our county. The instructor is a certified trainer also. In two weeks, we should recieve our cert cards. Anyways, I would like those who are trained to be identifiable if and when an emergency arrives. Is there an adult patch or insignia available for adult leadership to wear on there uniforms? My line of thinking is trhat by having that patch: 1) Parents will have an extra layer of comfort and security by seeing that patch and knowing there are qualified people around in the event something arrises. 2) "Authority". And by that, something that says I am "Trained by an offical expert" and not "trained by watching Grey's Anatomy" or "trained because I have a friend who's frist cousin's ex-husband's old Girfriend used to date a Dr.". You know what I mean? Thedre is always that gut or gal who just knows everything. They will argue with you...which as a leader you could ignore, but if they get a parent of a hurt scout worried or full of doubt - could seriously complicate matters. So, is there a patch available or that can be worn as part of the uniform? If not, how about a credential style card/ lanyard to be worn around the neck? Thanks!

Yeah, that's the thing : If it's just gonna be raining for an hour...maybe two for one day. then no biggie, we gan turn it into something fun such as a rain hike,. indoor activities ( there is usually some sort of shelter at any decent CUB scout camping area) or just down time. But remember, we are talking about cubs. A weekend of constant rain will be a garanteed miserable time. That will put a huge black mark on their impression of scouting and camping. It doesn't even have to be normal or make sense..these boys have a bad time..it's set in stone. The last 3 campouts we have had as a pack have been cut short due to bad ( tornado warnings and severe thunderstorms) weather. We don't run for the hills at the first prediction, but stay as long as we can do so while still being safe. We do not want people packing up tents in wind gusts, hail or down pours, nor do we want people running into ditches or each other because you can't see 7 foot infront of your car. But a simple 1 or 2 hour rain or sprinkle? Shoot, that has more appeal than a fresh mud puddle!

What really burns me up..what infuriates me more than anything else is that I gave away my entire prized COMPLETE Wayne Newton PEZ Dispenser collection for NOTHING!!!!

"Just curious, how do you plan for rain storms when you create the Pack calendar a year in advance????" Just like anything else. We adapt, make changes , and reschedule. I live on the NC coast..so you know we are no strangers to hurricanes. Matter of fact, if a hurricane was in the Indian Ocean, it wouls still make fist landfall at Wilmington, NC which is 24 miles to my south! Point is, if we have scheduled a camping weekend way back at the beginning of the year, and then a hurricane comes, we post pone our camping. Same if there was a wild fire at/near our campsite. WE plan for the year ahead of time, be we are not inflexible rigid people. This isn't football or boy scouts, short of a few showers, we get the planning books back out and figure something out.

WEll, the key thing here is that this boy is a Bear, Not a First class scout. He's still young, and being independant, maybe slightly hardheaded? As this is going to be the FIRST TIME SOLO IN A TENT : Considering that most kids this age do not have the tent zipper finess that older boys and adults have and trhat he may change his mind after one or two nights solo ..I would not lay out more than $60 tops for a tent. Now, the difficulty of the tent setup is also dependant on who is settiung op. I have an Ozark Trail tent that I can set up in 5 mins total time. My Webelos son can do it all by himself in 8. it's slightly askewered when he does it, but that is due to his age ability and not the tent. AS far as one good storm...though it can happen unexpectedly , we are still talking cubs, not boy scouts....where you tend to monitor and plan for the weather a bit better. In the end, this boy may decide that solo tenting is the bet way to go and trurn out to be an awesome tent connoisseur. If that's the case, go ahead and buy one of those $250.00 3 season trek tents. But for now, until you know for sure, buy a cheaper , and possibly "disposable" tent ...just in case.

The only time I have done foil diners is at POW WOW and BALOO classes. In BALOO, it also covered LNT campfires. The instructor brought a 4X6 canvas tarp with him and laid it on the ground over some nice thick green grass. Then dumped and spread around five, 5 gallon buckets of dirt onto the tarps. He then dumped 2 bags of charcoal onto the dirt in a nice pile. Lit them up and when they were ready, spread them around. WE did the tin foil dinners with a couple pieces of cabbage between the food and foil. Pretty much, we had frozen hamburger patties, sliced potatoe, carrots, green beans, slices of onion, and some baby corn cob thingys. We rolled them in a tent design to leave expansion room, and wrote our names with a sharpie which did not burn off in the fire. Umm...those little packs of salt and pepper from fast food restaurants really come in handy here! So anyways, after the coals and ash had completely cooled down, the instructor scattered the ash over a very wide area. Then shoveled the dirt back into his buckets and put them back in his truck, shook the tarp off and the grass was barely mashed down from the weight of the dirt. After about 5 minutes, all the blades of grass were standing back up straight again. Now, at an actuall campsite, you wouldn't bring the dirt with you, but could transfer it from a dead or no grass area, then put it back, The ash could actually help the soil become fertalized as it does after a woods fire. Just don't dump it all in one spot - scatter it out thinly.

I'll tell you my experiences ( 2) with roundup. The first time I was at a roundup was when my son came home and told me - 5 mins before it started - that we needed to go to his school for roundup. Did I mention the school was 12 miles away? So when we go, the DE sings a song or two with the boys, but pretty much then directs his attention to the parents..wich is technically the correct thing to do since - in theory - he's already hooked the boys at a prior assembly meeting. Then each pack introduces themselves through the CM and oparents pick the best fit and join. I picked what I thought would be the best fit and signed up. 3 years later, I am now the CM of that same pack. At my first roundup, I printed a bunch of copies of basic info on paper: pack nbumber and CO, meeting night, meeting time. Who the CM ( me ) is, and phone #, The COR name and phone # THis time, the DE gave his same speach and then left each CM to introduce themselves. WEll, the other CM's ( 3 of them) looked at the parents and talked over the boys. What I did differently was talk to the boys and let the parents listen. THen when the other CM's at down at their sign up tables and waited for people top come to them..I walked around and talked / joked with the boys and answered mom and dads questions. I did this 2 times over 2 nights and my COR did it once since we have 3 elementary schools within 6 miles ( in any direction) of the CO. That first night, I signed up 22 scouts with paymenst in full and registration to the council. I handed out another handfull who would bring the forms and money to our parent/scout orientation meeting. During the roundup, I even explained that not everybody would like our pack, and if they felt like they joined the wrong one, could transfer to another for $1. I also told them that they did not have an obligation to join the closest unit, but should go wherever they felt more comfortable because that would keep their kid in scouting...which is the goal. I think my honesty helped calm the fears of many parents. Again, I signed up 22 that first night as compared to the others doing 2,1 ,0 respectively. The next night, I signed up around 10 more with another handfull of forms going home with parents and the others did 1,0, 3 respectively. The biggest thing is this: I talked to the boys and not at them or over them. And I had no qualms about acting silly or making them laugh.

Wait! Did you say black powder? Oh man! I didn't even think of that! Thanks for the great idea...so lets see...black powder, chlorine, Pine Sol, and steel wool hooked to a deep cycle marine battery! Nah, I think people are staring to drift from my original post ( Yeah, I know - hard to imagine that huh?) I was just browsing around on the web and came across the whole fire starting artivle on ( oh yeah...) scouter.com And it sounded cool, but I also get the mental image of adults and scouts writhing on the ground in convulsions with frothy blood spewing from their mouths. I wouldn't do it - if for no other reason - that some scouts in our pack would have breathing issues and possible asthma attacks even if everybody else didn't have any issues.

I'd get a basic 3 man tent from Wal-Mart. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-7-x-7-Sundome-Tent/13849028 It will cost less than $50.00 - so if he destroys it, it's not like you bought a $250.00 scout tent. At the listed 3 man size, it's more like 1.5 man and one duffle bag. Height is about 4 1/4 foot and it has two graphite poles with snap clips. After he sets it up once or twice, he will not have a problem setting it up by himself. Now, I am not actually suggesting this particular tent, but any tent along those lines. After he wears it out in a year or two, then you can break down and get a bigger/better tent. This is a great starter tent.