Scoutfish

So is naked walking a sin/mistake or a sin/offense? Guess it depends on how many cars run off the road as a result. Well, whaty I meant, but somehow didn't actually say is this: One person's sin is not responcible for anothers sin. Basically, like my son gettin g in trouble for throwing rocks at cars and saying that his cousin was doing it too. So? What your cousin did had nothing to do with you making your own decision to act on something. If the girl was naked..that's it's own issue. The man acting oin it would be a second and seperate issue with the man. I just hate when people blame their own actions on somethinmg somebody else did: He laughed at me for getting fired, so I shot him!

You know...there just isn't a black and white world anymore. I think the biggest thing is that people just don't have honor , nor do they care to do anything if it doesn't benefit themselves. Know what I mean? Everybody is concerned for the welfare of Numero Uno only! Rules apply to everybody ele but me. I do not care who has been in line all day, I am going to cut in front of them all because4 I want something! I get service calls to customers who think they have the right to slap you if they don't like what you have to say. And true example, I had a guy who didn't like the price quote he was getting to replace his garage door opener. When I told him a new one was going to cost him $250.00 (tax, install and all materials included), he said I better get a lower price or he was going to "slap your jowells!" So this guy thinks He has the right to physically hit somebody over a price he doesn't like? Really? What ever happened to calling another company about a price or just saying : "WOW! That much?" Toomany people only thin of themselves and do not understand the concept of treat others the way you yourself would like to be treated. They have no concept of respect others or just getting along. But at the same time, alot of stuff was considered morally wrong or even sinful that is just rediculous. And when I say sinful, I'm not talking going against the Ten Commandments muder and mayhem sorta think. For example. back....way back, so way back it was behind way back.. in the day, I was hanging out with a friend who also happened to be female. We were at her house during the middle of the day watching tv. That's all....nothing else. WE were really good friends. Hung out alot, but that's all there was to it, nothing else. Her mom and dad were totally cool with me to. They didn't care if I came over or not when they werent' there. So anyways, on one particular day, we were watching some movie about ...whatever - I can't remember now..and her grandma who was visiting, came into the living room, and starting hitting me with a broom. Called us both pigs, saying we should be all ashamed for being sinful and what not.She said that people had better control of themselves when she was younger. What was the problem? The problem was that a boy and a girl were in the same room. AND THATS IT! She was sitting in a recliner, I was on the couch and there was 3 feet plus an end table between us. So this old woman decides we are being sinful and physically starts assualting me with a broom. Okay, truthfully, I thought it was funny about the broom thing, and being old, she wasn't hyurting me in any real physical way. But from a mental standpoint, I had enough. I called her out right then and there. I told her that I cannot help that back in her day that a boy and girl left alone were such piods they could not help but get physical with each other, and it was a real shame that her parents had to keep a watchful eye on her and her loose pants. But that had nothing to do with me orv hetr granddaughter. I then pointed out what a shame it was that as a CONSTANTLY self proclaimed Christian, the very first thoughts she had at all were those of less that honorable. I then pointed out that just because she had lustfull thoughts around men did not mean anybody else did. I then told her that maybe she should see about setting herself straight. So long story short: What ws the sin that I was guilty of committing? Being friends? Hanging out and watching a movie? Enjoying friendship foir the sake of friendship? Point is, people used to see so much sin, bad behavior and just plain wrong stuff wherte it didn't exist. Used to be a time women were scorned for wearing pants. Remember the old bathing suits? Men had full shirts and pants on, womens swimsuits had skirts and covered women from top of the neck to their lower ankles. Anything less and they were considered harlots. Really? Because the top of their ankle was showing? JUst saying, Some things that were considered sinful back them shouldn't have been! Even today, the mentality is that if a woman wears something skimpy and is attecked by a man , that it is all her fault. And while I agree that it may not be the wisest thing for her to do...it does not relieve any man from the full responcibility for his own actions and judgement. Everybody has control over their actions. A woman should be able to walk down the road naked and have no fear of being attacked. No, naked walking isn't a good idea,but that's not the point. Any man who acts on it acts of his own vilation and under his own will. Why blame the woman for a man' sactions? And that's big problem too. People are impulsive, and cannot / will not take responcibility for their own actions. And too many mom and dad's coddles that mentality to the point, the kids are stuck that way!

Nah, what I am saying is a committee cannot vote anybody out. They cannot fire or replace without the COR or IH ap[proval. Now, I'm not saying that COR's don't just go along with the committee. Ours does as a matter of fact, unless he has a very good reason ( that we may not be aware of ) to do other wise. But even if our COR acted like a puppet on a string as far as the committee is concerned, it is his signature, that says a pareson can serve in any committee or leadershiop role or who is getting their walking papers. A committee cannot vote a person out. They can however , vote and get a "show of hands" for the COR's or IH's benefit as to wether the rest of the leadership has any confidence in the person in question. Now, as far as decisions, my job as CM is to make program decisions all the time. Leaders will come to me and ask me various questions and ask for guidance. Sometimes, they run things by me just to make sure they are on the right page or to make sure they are seeing things in the right light. Sometimes they want to confirm wether something is allowable or not. But if I have a rouge den leader who needs to be out pronto, I cannot fire them, I have to bring it up to committee who does the whole show of hands thing for the COR, or I can approach the COR directly with my concerns. Imagine if you will, it's like being a shift manager at a convience store. You can deal with product vendors, you handle customers, you set the schedule of the employees who work the shift you manage. But the hiring and firing are left to the store manager( COR) or the regional manager (the IH). In my pack, the CC and myself CM) are given alot of leeway in what we can do. I could say that it is the two of us who run things, but the truth is different. The truth is, the CC and myself are just running a program in the same manner as the COR would run it. We just happen to be on the same page 99% of the time. And for the other 1% ....well, the COr realizes that as long as the unit doesn't collapse, thenm having a different veiw of some things isn't gonna kill anybody. But make no mistake: no matter if the entire committe and leadership approves of a new leader ort that an existing one needs to go...it doesn't happen until that very moment that the COR gives his consent or signs the papers. As a commitee of about 15 people, we can hold a unanymous vote, but it means nothing at all untiul the COR accepts our vote . And again, or COR may not always agree with us 100%, but he understands the implications of a committee and leaders having 100% agreement.

It still comes down to this: The COR and CO are the ones with the authority and power. Period. The COR may be really cool, really egfficient , or really understanding and just sign off anything the committee asks of the COR, but that is still theCOR just being accomidationg. Or maybe even playing around with the committee's ego, But the only power the committee has is walking power. They can leave if they don't like what the COR does...but that's it!

WOW! In both our Co's pack and Troop , we have parents who scream bloody murder if the have to pay more than $20.00 for camping, and yet they expect bacon wrapped prime rib steaks, 3 cheese5 eggs omletts for breakfast with taost, juice, all the sides and a waiter to dserve it. But these are also the same parents who go to 5 or 6 NASCAR races a year ( not cheap at all) , Disney World twice a year, Bahamas at least once and Elk hunting in Montanna for a week before going Halibut fishing in Alaska for two weeks.

We had our yearly planning meeting a few nights agoi, and two topics came up. One being our class b shirts - Yeah, it's not an official designation, but you knew exactly what I was talking about - and the other ws about having a visual id for those who were CPR/ First Aid trained leaders. As it turns out, we killed two birds with one stone. We usually order navy blue t shirts with yellow writing for our pack. Says PACK 235 on the front with the cub scout symbol and on the back, just big letters that says PACK 235. So this year, our leaders will wear tan t shirts with red lettering that say LEADER - PACK 235 and the cub scout symbol on the front, and in big letters LEADER PACK 235 on the back. Right now, we are only 1 leader shy of having 100% leadership trained in CPR/First Aid. So, when we are at an event or doping an activity where wearing the uniform isn't feasable, the tan shirt witrh red writing will stand out in a crowd of blue and yellow shirts. And we will announce at the beginning of each event that the leadershiop is fully trained - just look for a tan shirt.

" then there is a committee vote to accept you in the position.." Or we look around the table at who is not present, say So-&-So is not here, I nominate him.." The committee votes them in, and we call them on the cell phone to tell them, that since they were abscent, they were voted into doing xyz.. And then after all that committee voting, you fill out a form and our COR signed it in.. WEll, it stil comes down to the COR signing off if he approves, or rejecting if he doesn't. And somewhere in all of that, there should be a background check . BSA will do one even if the COR or CO doesn't. But , that's how our pack works. Mostly. As far as Den Leaders and ADL's , the leadership lets the me( CM) feel out leaders and assistant leaders. I talk to the potential leadrs, see if the will agree to accept, and at the leaders meeting, I will say something along the lines of : "THis is Mr/Mrs "X". I have asked them to be "whatever" leader. What does everybody think?" So far, the leadership has agreed to my choices. But I have told them that I welcome a vote on any person if that's what they want. I could pick, but I prefer there to be a majority agreement. At this point, we turn it over to the COR who trusts us enough to follow along as long as the background check works out. Well, our COR is also really active and was the founding CubMaster and ScoutMaster way, way way back before even VCR's were invented! Same with our CC, he can do all the buisness stuff, and technically, the adult leaders do not have to be voting members of the meeting, but we all work together and all have an equal say. Again, our COR has the ultimate authority, but he's cool enought to let everybody work as a team.

What's a VCR? Nah, I'm just kidding! I saw one once...it had the crank handle on it and ....... LOL!

The pack is owned by the CO, The Co is ( in a way) using any and all BSA programs, literature, and logo's Etc.. with the approval of BSA through a charter agreement. After that point, it all is owned by the CO. The leadership - while having to follow BSA rules,guidelines and requirements - still works for the CO. They are there to serve the CO in running the unit whgich is owned by the CO. Committees cannot vote members off. Now, the CO may choose to allow the CC or CM act as an authority in such matters, especially if the COR is on paper only. And a good COR will support the committee and leadership if the entire group shows that the CC or CM are not doing a good job. But the COr can also reject the Committees recomendation to get ruid of the CC, CM or any other members And as it is, The CC and CM work together to look for a worthy person to be a leader. They then can reccommend to the COR, tt person be allowed to work in that position.. But let's be frank here. It is all up to each particular CO and how they run things. BSA can say that "This is an ideal way to do it" but that's as far as BSA goes. If the CO, COR, or IH are totally screwing up a unit and BSA doesn't like whats going on, it can revoke the charter, but that's about it.

Basically, in my pack: The CC does alot of running arouind. He handles the recharter, making sure leaders have YPT and that their paperwork is up to date and all I's are dotted and all T's crossed. He works with vendors to secure foods and such for campouts, he works with thebtreasuerer to get necessary equipment for thre pack. At pack meetings, he goes over a list of dates for events, letting folks know they need to pay for this, submit forms for that, what PWD rules are ,. etc... As a CM< I work on the program the boys get, I work with my leaders to make sure they don't sound like Ben Stein during den meetings: "Bueller..Bueller...Bueller..." I also answer the many questions my DL's have about wether they can do this or that, what to do about awards, rank, beltloops, etc. While the CC makes sure they have YPT, I make sure they have iot too as well as any traing for thir rank as well as going to pow wows. BALOO, getting all leaders first aid/CPR/AED trained, working on themes for pack campouts, den meeting activities, and then the rteally important stuff: Making sure the boys just have alot of fun while learning. Now, there are black and white lines, but also so very gray ones too. AS long as the two of you get along, and neither one of you is burdoned while the other is hardly doing anything...then just do what works for you and the pack!

It would also be a great idea to get a treasurer who gives monthly details at leadership meetings about what has been brought in, spent, set aside, etc.. And it really does help if you have somebody who is not only willing, but ready to step up immediately in the CC and CM positions.

I get what you are saying 5year: It's not about the scouts at all. Matter of fact, most bylaws and rules, SOP's are not about anybody but the adults! Really, I wouldn't set a predetermined set of pages or volum of how big/long the bylaws should be. If youi do that....you end up adding a bunch of fluff to fill the space, but that fluff will make loophole after loophole in the good rules> Some stuff you can figure out ahead: When dues are due, wether the pack will carry a scout until dues are paid? If so, how long? Who can order supplies? What is the policy to get reimbursed? How many people does it take to sign a check? Who can open, close or "square up" bank accounts? What is the quorum number for a vote to count? Yeah, as nice as it would be, the scout handbok does not help one bit. Sure, there is an oath, but there are also laws about bank robbery, embezelment, and murder....how are those working out so far? And the thing is, you know, I know, and most active /experienced scouters know what and how to do stuff. But all it takes is one or two parents who are new, who are rogue, or just think they know better thaneverybody else..... and it all falls apart!

Talk to the COR ( Charter Organazation Representative) , Either he or the IH ( Institutional Head) of the church have to do it. But don't go to council, the DE or SE. They are not in a position nor have the authority to do it.

Scoutnut is correct. But I'll also give it to you in layman's term that I used at a pack campout when a parent asked me who was in charge: Me (CubMaster) or the CC. I told her we both were. The CC handles the buisness and administrative side of te pack, while I handle the program and events of the pack. Basically, I do the fun stuff while the CC does the boring stuff!

THanks! I really do apprciate the ideas and suggestions.

Nah, we don't have an AED, but they are more commonly avaiulable at many places. some of our grocery stors, other churches, and public attractions have them. We do have a first aid kit in our CO and we also have two smaller simpler ones in our scout trailer. The CPR we took is good for two years...but when we took the class last month, the instructor pointed out that the protoco fopr CPR taught before November had already changed. So, even if your CPR is good for a year, it has probably changed already. Eagle92 I think the thing that convinced them was an e mail I sent to all the leaders and parents ( we did open the class to all all parents of active scouts): "WE Pack camp at least twice a year as a pack, WE go to council camp at least twice as year also. We have a minimum of 3 summer activity days, and we average at least 6 trips (collectively) between our dens for go see its. Most ogf the time, medical help is only a few minutes away. But what if you only had a few secoinds? What if we are at council camp which is 12 miles ( at the pavement) from the closest EMS station? What if we are at Camp Kirkwood which is 7 miles from the closest EMS station? What if we are hikning in the woods? If you only have a few minutes, but help is over a half hour away...what do you do?" Matter of fact, I even sent an invite to leaders of the newest pack ( just started this year)in our district to join us. The CM came. WE are planing on holding another class this fall after any new adults join. It may flop next time, but the e mail did get people to think...even if they didn't do anything about it. (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Pack, I agree. Some kids have issued wether there are two parents or just one. Some kids are just fine haviong one parent instead of two. Plus, like you said, what about death? What about military where dads ( or moms) are away for a few years at a time ( war going on right now)? Then you also have married parents whop kinda sorta go through the motions. Maybe mom or dad is a workaholic and never spends time with Jr anyways. Some kids need attention, others just want to be part of a crowd, other wish people would kepp their distance, and then you have those who just go with the flow no matter what the flow is.

About a month and a half ago, I had an inkling of an idea start crawling around that hollow space over my shoulders: Get all pack leadership CRP/AED First aid trained. As of right now, I am two leaders shy of that goal. I have 13 out of 15 leaders having been certified CPR/AED and First Aid trained. The other two had prior obligations on the night of our training, but will be taking the class as soon as I can scrounge up enough people to meet the minimum nuber of class size. So, doe your unit have a fisrt aid/ CPR requirenment or at least a goal of having any training of a first aid/CPR nature? Our Pack doesn't require anything outside of Council requirements, but I thought having all leadership trained would be great.

We just had our annual planning meeting tonight. And we switched things up a bit. 1) First thing was that we decided to plan only half a year ahead. As of right now we are good til May. Reasoning behind this is this: We plan ahead every year for the entire year, but end up changing and switching so much stuff because we cannot plan around everything . For example: youth athletics school issues, council re-schedules,etc... WE usually do well with planning the first half of the year, but the second half goes to pot because it is planned out too far ahead of time. So we figured we'd resume our planning in February. Besides, at this time, we will usually have picked upo more adult volunteers anbd leaders, so that alone changes schedualing and planning. 2) Our B&G. Last time, e ended up holding a combo B&G and PWD due to snow screwing up our schedule.. We had 3 snows in 4 weeks and in the great state of NC, 9" is practically the" Blizzard of the Century". So we ended up holding our B&G directly after the PWD and announcing the winners after eating. Also, alot of boys in different den had to drop off their cars and leave due to sports obligations. We ended up cooking hot dogs and eating cake for B&G. EVERYBODY LOVED IT!!! Instead of hoilding two events a week or two apart....and lets face it, it's always the same core group of people who do everything... we can spent 6 hours total for one event instead of spending 5 hours EACH for two events only a week or two apart. THis year, we are going to hold it later. Car registration starts at 4 pm. At 5 pm, we are going to have our B&G. The pack is going to cook sausages and BBQ leg quarters ( I did mention we live in NC, didn't I ? )The families will bring sides and dessrts. At 6:30, we are going to start our PWD. Since it will be Saturdayy, we dion't mind if we don't finish til 9 pm. 3) Camping. Last year, we held our fall camping at our CO. The only cost was food. Since so many new families join scouting in te fall and some of them have never been camping before, this acts as a great "intro to camping" - camping event. What better place to wet your feet in camping than a place tha isn't 2 hours from home? Plus, sports. We have kids who wake up, have to leave and drive an hour and a half to a game that lasts an hour, then drive back to camp. THis way, all our scouts are within 6 miles of all the schools and youth group game sites. Did I mention cost? In the fall, parents just spent a huge amout of maoney on school supplies, new clothes, school fees, school pictures, new BSA registrations, plus school pictures - possibly school uniforms or sports gear, and of course, time to sell popcorn. 4) Spring camping is going to be held a month earlier. It's easier to keep warm that to cool off. I'm tired of sweating while camping. Tired of skeeters and no se ums attacking me. Cooler weather just makes campingf so much better and nothing beats a campfire on a chilly night! WE also decided to hold our crossover at the CO insrtead of while camping. We have alot of people who pay a partial (one day)_ rate t for the camping only because they want to see the crossover. They do not stay over night, do not set up camp or do they do anything else. The come for crossover, clap then drive off. Since we hold our pack camp at a site that is bout 1 1/2 hours from our CO, it makes sense to do the crossover at the CO. And the thing about all of the above: when every one of those ideas was mentioned, it was almost a unanimous decision to do it. After spending a few minutes dicussing the pros and cons, everybody agreed on all of the ideas.

Personally, I'd rather see a child living in a single parent home full of love than a married house of anguish and fighting.

I've seen one thing a bit worse: DL/ ADL being a Husband and wife team. Now, normally, I'd expect this to be a grteat ifdea since they should already be a harmonius couple. Plus, they don't have to call each other at different times or try to set aside a meeting time outside the den meeting to colabborate on what is going on. The problem I saw was the the DL (husband) was doing a pretty good job giving the program to the boys, but the ADL (wife) thought things should be done differently. But being married, she felt she had more right to nag...ahem..... I mean question the validity of what the DL was doing. And of course, every time the DL said something to the boys, teh ADL would say" Don't you mean this" or "wouldn't this be a better idea" or "Shouldn't we do this instead". Somewhere, somehow it became personal. If the DL said the sun was hot, the ADL would say it was probably cold. At pack meetings, when the DL would be up front with his den handing out awards and talking about what the boys did, the ADL ( sitting in the crowd) would stand up and just interrupt without pause. FInally, the CM ( me) had to take them aside and say : "Look, I do not know, nor do I care what the issue is with the two of you, but it ends RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW! You may not realize it, but the one upman ship[ is causing the scouts to not like being here and you are about to loose half your den!" The next week, the wife decided that her schedule was just too busy to be an ADL. No, she didn't work, but I really didn't care. The difference was noticable almost immediately. Anyways, the problem had nothing to do with scouting or the way the DL was delivering the program. The problem had to do with the casualness and intimacy between the couple. No, not bedroom intimacy, but the familiar comfortable nes that we take for granted with out close friends and spouses. I'm just glad they weren't a CC / CM couple.

Man...I agree and disagree . My wife and I have been married for over 16 years now. We dated for a little over 4 years before we got married. WE planned/talked about our wedding for about a year. Of course, we bought a house 4 months before we got married and moved in together too, but had already set wedding plans in motion. Almost every one of our married couple friends we grew up with or hung out with as married couples are divorced. One couple got married because she got pregnant in high school. He did love her to death, but was too controling. She wanted to have all the single person fun she missed out on and started having a hard time being faithful. Yes I do know as she tried to work on me too. Another couple got divorced because he expected his wife to stay at home all day as a mom while he worked, but then expected her to take care of everything all night too because "I worked all day and I am off now." He wanted all the perks of marrage but the freedomn and responcibility of being single. Another couple decided to get married a month after dating...we all knew that one was doomed to start with: Al he talked about was how hot she was and good in bed. All she talked about was how much money he spent on her and how handsome he was. Never heard the word "love" from the lips either of them. I see to many people act too fast too soon and think withn their bodies instead of their heads. I see people seperate after the first stupid minor arguement. People no longer understand compromise, sacrifice, working through things, or that concept of " Marrage is a 50/50 partnership that takes 100% effort from both couples." Divorce is too easy and simple to do. No fault divorce , people who see that it is easier to divorce than to think first or actually commit to something. But on the other side of the spectrum. I do see women who no longer suffer in silence or hide in shame in abusive marrages. I see women whio will not live a life of beaing beaten in silence just avoid embarassing their families ( I still don't get that one anyways). I see people who realize that the spark is gone, that they have changed to a point they just cannot get along and that by sticking together, things would actually be worse for everybody involved ...including the kids. And that's the worst part of it...the kids. They somehow think it's their fdault or that they caused it. Then once divorse hapens, each parent pretty much smears, degrades and slanders the other parent right in front of the kid....so the kid feels like he is betraying both parents by still loving and talking to the other one. I told my wife BEFORE we had my son, that "IF" anything ever happens and for some reason we get divorced, I do not plan on ever blasting her in front of or within earshot of my son. Maybe we do have a falling out, but that is not my son's fault or problem. He does not need to hear me talk trash about his mom nor does he need to hear his mom do the same. And most importantly, I will be sure to explain to him it is no way his fault nor could he do anything to prevent it. But you know...It doesn't look like I will ever have to. Is my marrage perfect? Not hardly, But what is?

" I concur with Scoutfish comments. It is hazing and bullying, but verbally. They gave the CIT an insulting nickname, and made a bad choice in doing so. What they are probably thinking is funny and hilarious (and harmless) nickname, is damaging and offensive. " Yeah, but I sam not necessarily saying that hazing or bullying is the INTENT of the boys. Sometrimes, good intentions can backfire and explode in our face. We think we are being friendly and breaking the ice while the person on the other end is feeling attacked, insulted or worse. I'm just saying that even though it isn't a good thing that is happening, we shouldn't go in and reprimanding the boys for being jerks. We should tell them it's not cool, but give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not trying to be malicious. On a side note: The CIT doesn't need to just simply say: "Stop it, you are hurting my feelings!" If it wasn't intentional hurt, he will come off sounding like a fragile crybaby type..then he will get ragged for it. If it was intentional, then he just confirmed to the bullies that they hit the sweet spot. What this CIT needs to do is basically say something along the lines of: "Really? Is that it? What eare we .....in 5th grade? " Then laugf it off as he walks away. THis will tell bulliez (if that is what they are) that their names and taunts are ineffective. If the INTENT was good, but just failed...they will pretty apologize and much own up to it being an attempt to make him part of the club. Depending on what happens...then you decide how to pursue this, if it even needs pursueing.

I also want to be sure I understand something too: The son is in the troop that asked dad - who happens to be the WDL - to go along on a trip that his son ( who is in the troop)is going on? Nothing at all wrong with that. It's no different that you taking your son to a movie, and me - being a neighbor - getting mad that you didn't ask my son and myself too since they play together. I am a CM who also happens to be a MB counselor for a troop. If that troop invited me to go...wherever .. with them, I have no obligation to invite or expect an invite for all my cubs. My position of CM to the pack is not connected or related to my position in the troop or my position of District Cub camp promotions . Same with this dad. His position in the troop does not cross over nor does it carry any obligations to the pack. Besides, he may not have the authority to extend the invite to anybody. Like mentioned before...the parameters are controlled by those who did the inviting, not anybody else.

Yeah, I suppose you would have to treat having gays as having members of the opposite sex ...at least as far as showering and sleeping. Same as if it was a venture crew. They could all participate in any activity to gether as individuals or a working team, but sleeping and showering facilities would have to have seperation between male female and gay. Of course, the scout camps I have been to ( both cub sbd boy scout) have seperated shoer stalls, dresing areas, and toilet stalls so it shouldn't be a problem beyond what somebody does to intentionally be seen or see somebody else. As far as the honor of the scouts, it sgouldn't be any different from the current honor the boy snd girls of mixed units have already. LIke anything else..it will be in the4 news and be the much ado about nothing for a year or so...but over time, it won't raise any eyebrows any more than co-ed venture crews do now.