Scoutfish

Well, we could say Alpha Scouts, Beta Scouts. I'm 6'2" 260 lbs You can call me a XXL Scout!

Depends on when the recharter takes place, and wghen dad and lad takes place. If the boy is paid up til next Dec31st ( or Jan ist as it may be) and your dad and Lad is in the summer or any month before the Dec/Jan recharter date..then yeah, there is no reason not to let him go. He's paid his dues to be elligible to to attend any activity til his registration expires. NOw, I am not saying he has paid for camp or any fees, just that he has paid the right to be able to pay to go to camp, or whatever until the recharter date. Now, if this event takes place after recharter, then no, he must either pay to recharter or re register with BSA. I guess there is one exception though: If the dad and lad occurs after recharter drops his registration, you can charge him for the cost of the event and BSA's insurance cost...and let them attend as potential recruits or guests of the pack. Just be sure to let your DE, SE or council registrar know beforehand. WE have done that on pack campouts to people who are wishy washy about joining. 9 out of ten times, they end up joining so council see's it as a recruiting thing. Anyways, it all depends on the dates of the Dad &Lad and wether it occurs before orv after recharter. Kinda like renting an apartment: If in January, you pay upfront for 12 months, and tell the landlord in July you are not going to renew come next January, you still are paid up til December and have full rights to the apartment until your lease expires at the end of December.

One thing we do is this: On friday nights of our campouts...everybody is responsible for their own dinner. Bring your own, stop at MacDonald's, go to Subway or bring a pizza...whatever you want. Alot of our leaders ( myself include) take advantage of this time to cook high sodium, high carb, artery clogging cholesterol filled food! Yeah....that's right....the great tasting stuff. I cook a big pot of blackeyed peas and smoked sausage using two bags of dried beans soaked at least 8 overnight and two big packs of sausage,and an onion. Our outgoing ACM cooks a big ( 8 gallon ) pot of deer meat Brunswick Stew. One Wolf leader cooks a big pot of Low Country Boil ( crab, fish,shrimp, and potaoes) and fries up some clam fritters. Another Wolf leader brings homemade sausage and brats and some awesome homemade zuchinni relish. Another brings salami, ham, and turkey cold cuts , tomatoes, lettuce, 3 or 4 types of cheese and hogie rolls. We all bring more than enough to feed about 15 people each. A few of us bring our DO's to show how to make cobblers, cakes and desserts. So far, I have observed that every year, more and more parents "forget" to bring their dinner! We do it to show a variety of cooking ideas, ands also it's an unwritten bragging rights competition. Anyways, the point is, we can throw down on Friday night, eat really good stuff - guilt free, and when Saturday and Sunday come, we don't mind simple stuff like hot dogs and leg quarters. Bonus is, since each person does their own thing... we do not have a big mess to clean up.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

It's like people say: Some people lead, and some follow. Bet most ogf the people who stand up and lead are Alpha while many who kinda think they might lead..if it's okay with everybody else..are Beta. Yeah, it probably is a default characteristic. But of course, my dad used to say that sometimes I could be so hard headed that I really could win an arguement with a wall!

You know what is a bigger concern with our pack? Trying to convince the scouts to wash their hands AND faces ....with soap... AND water!

"Then I won't waste my time. However, I want to strongly challenge you on another front, to make allegations against the Bible and organized religion and then subsequently refusing evidence or arguments that would challenge your position speaks for itself. Refuse what evidence? I have evidence to back up what I said - just like you asked : "Please cite examples of what you find are biblical contradictions and I'll do my utter best to reconcile for you. And what do you think you can reconsile for me? It's right there in print. Therefore, your reconsile would only be your attempt to sway me with your personal take or opinion, which I do not need. "By and large I like to lurk until someone says something arguably untrue about God or the Bible." Of course, you tried to insinuate that I brought God into it. I didn't mention God, you did. I only mentioned a book,printed , translated and re-printed, reprinted again and reprinted and translated a hundred times over BY MAN . "I would respectfully ask that you either engage bi-directionally in the conversations *or* keep your cynical comments to yourself. So you are basically saying, If I do not change my views or agree with you...then I should be quiet? And cynical? How so? Because they do not put your personal vies on a pedistal? I suppose I could say the same. If you feel you must be cynical and try to reconcile everything I say of believe.....then perhaps you should refrain from commenting? But no, I understand that my view is not the only one, most important one or is the standrad one. I know it is just mine. And as I have said in this thread and many more, I respect each and every one of you to have your own opinions. Matter of fact, I respect them enough that I do not offer to reconcile them with my own beliefs if they do not match my own views, beliefs or opinions. So as friendly advice: If you cannot bear for people to have views, thoughts, and opinions that differ from your own, perhaps you should refrain from reading on this site as you may end up asking every other poster if they want your reconcilations and possibly be insulted when they tell you that they too do not need or want them. You want to have different beliefs? Thatr's cool with me. I can accept and respect that. You think everybody needs to mold to yours or get off the site? You are gonna be in for a long, tough, dissapointinmg ride.

ABSOLUTELY. Instead of just seeing or hearing about what awareness means or is, they get to experience it and live it ( in an observing way)..noy just hearing somebody tell them what it means. That is awesome that you get to go and see that.

We have 4 leaders who have big ole propane pig cookers. WE have cooked 17 Boston Butts at a time, cooked a 200 pound pig, cooked 4 batches of chicken leg quarters, cooked spaghetti ( pre cooked and reheated at camp) and we have cooked hot dogs and cheeseburgers. We decided to stick with hot dogs and chips and macaroni for lunch, and we cook leg quarters, green beans abd boiled potatoes for dinner. Truth be told, the scouts are simple when it comes to food. Give them a bottled water , a hot dog and chips and macaroni and they are just as happy as I am with a 20oz ribeye that is slightly pink inside with a loaded baked potato and gallon of sweet tea! Point is, it's just so simple to do hot dogs. We can stick over 100 in a 48 oz cooler and stick half a bag of ice on them...they will keep great for the entire trip. One bottle of mustard, oe bottle of ketchup and you are set. Sidenote: We usually have about 25 uncooked hotdogs left over from lunch that we will cook for dinner for those 3 or 4 scouts who do not eat food other than hotdogs or chicken nuggets! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

"Doesn't matter what they are wearing they just never stop eating." Isn't that the 13th point of the scout law or something?

I don't think Jamist means to say that this scout is going to be a shining examople or a lesson tool. But, as you said : "The fact that this little boy is Muslim is just one thing about who he is, just like being Christian is one part of who most of the members of your pack are. He's probably also a comic book fan, a soccer player and a video game expert, just like most of the other kids in your pack" I think that was Jamists point" Once other people saw him as just being a regular person, then they would realize he is just another person. At that point, people might open their eyes to the world around them. Just because somebody is a Muslim is no reason to freak out and maybe our own stereotypes and predjudices will go away. Besides, what else can you do? Say : "Sorry, you can't join because people will either hate you or see you being used as an educational tool....which is offensive either way. Jamist is just saying that they are welcoming a Muslim scout into the pack and wants to be sure they do not inadvertantly offend this boy or family. Meanwhile, at the same time, other people could learn their own predjudices are unfounded.

I'm not gonna blame you, but I do want to say what I observe from the outside...as you have posted it..with unbiased eyes towards you are the "rogue" DL. THis guy ran the fundraiser as a leader. Okay, if that's how your packs wants to do it..fine, but running an event should be a committee position: PWD chair, Camping chair, Fundraising chair, B&G chair, etc.... The chair shoule be apopointed by the CC or voted obn by the committee and/or leadership. Anyways: 1) You say he "proceeded to try to be in charge of all of the scouts accounts " So let him try. Handling one thing does not entitle or empower you to take over or automatically run another. Scout accounts should be a treasurer duty. An assit treasurer? Sure, if byou want, but still needs to be a full time accountable position. 2)Cashiers checks. WEll, if he opened an account for a temporary purpose, there isn't much need to order a registery book, deposit slips or checks. The bank may have had some sort of waiting period to hand over cash or maybe it seemed simpler toi get counter checks from the bank. Who knows , right? 3)" he has a personal thing against me and whenever I ask for any information he questions me back with a question of his own, I answer and he still does not give me the information I originally asked for." So where is the COR, CM and treasuer during this time? Technically, the treasuer should be asking this, but as CC you have the authority here as this is part of the admin side of scouting and not the program side. Get you COR to be present when you do this. 4) "but now I have people wanting me to get the information from him and double check his work and now he is complaining that his integrity is being called on." All the other parents: You say they will not volunteer or step up and do anything...yet as soon as something happens in a way they do not like..they come crying to you. Tell them they have two choices: step up or SHUT UP! Tell they they either accept what happens from those big enough to step up or they can do it themselves. So far they are just charity in their actions. As for his integrity, tell him yes... yes it is being called upon due to his own actions and attitude! The soulution is in his hands. 5) " I had some families come to me and specifically ask me if I would double check everything and then have the CM triple check me because they felt that the totals he gave them for what they earned were a lot less than previous years." Yeah, I'd tell them this makes total sense seeing as nobody wants to lift a finger or do anything. When nobody makes an effort....not much work gets done. 6) Personally, the info is still limited and we are only seeing one side of bthe story so it makes it hard to give an honest answer woiorth anything...but the 2 biggest issues I se here.... and I mean no disrespect in any ways ....is this: YOu are too wishy washy with him. YOpu don't tell him that "it might not be a good idea" You tell him NO! Absolutely not! If he has personal issues with you ..and it causes issues with how things are run and wether he will work with you and the rest of the committee or leadership, then he can not be allowed to run anything again. If the problemn is you..then you need to step down because it hampers the running of the pack.. I am not sayin g it's you or him. I don't know. But it's hurting that pack. At the samer time, this guy - who you say has been around a while - may also realize what a bunch of lazy, do nothing but nit pick parents you have.Might be that no matter what he says to them, he'll catch grief. You said the treasuer is hard to get ahold of and doesn't even want the job. WOW! I understand help is not just waitin g to do stuff, but treasurer is a very demanding and stressfull job. IF that person doesn't like or want it, that could be a mathmatical and accounting nightmare in itself. Maybe that's why he wants to run scout accounts. Maybe trhe hard to contact job hating treasuere is screwing thing up, mis-applying funds or scount accounts. Not saying intentionally, but could be accident misapplications of credit for scouits doing whatever, and deposits going to wromng acconts. I'd be mad if my son's scouit account was short when he worked twice as many events and the scout with the biggest account never did anything to help or never showed up. Honestly, the best thing to do is have a meeting with this guy and the committee and only active parents. Tell the ones who run and hide when help is needed that they can go hide again. Then talk to this guy about what he thinks could be done better as far as handling fundraiser and scout accopunts. You may not realize it, but you might be looking at the best fundraising chair/ treasurer your pack has ever potentially had. Ask him if he wants it. Let him run it for a year. You might be surprised with what you get! And I am being honest: Putting myself in this guys shoes, what I am hearing is this: "You are going to do this - PERIOD! You will do it how e say, when we say and do everything we want you to do...but we are not going to help you, nor is anybody else, but they are going to question everything you do. Maybe he is not personally aginst you, but resents the when and how he is expected to do the work.

No, there is no offical breaking open of the flag. Flags are to be unfolded and then attached to the lanyard and briskly raised. http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#177 UNITED STATES CODE : TITLE 36 : CHAPTER 10 : STATUE 177

Yeah, that's what we do too: Every event, every fundraiser...dens turn money into the DL, who records what each scout gave him...but then he turns it over to the treasurer who does the treasuerer job. The treasurer can seperate which money is collected for what, where it gets spent, and the grand amnount of each scouts scout account. Since we sometimes collect upward of $800.00 on a given weekend of fundraising ( one den collected $1,100.64 selling chicken dinner tickets in 5 hours on one Saturday) andf the DL's are not comfortable holding that money - they bring it to me, the CM. And I will track down the treasurer and give her the money as soon as possible. The tresuere gives me a recept of the money which I give back to the DL to show it was all turned in. The bad side to handing over fundraising to a TIger leaders is several: 1) You do not want to overburdon and loose a new DL before they hardly get their feet wet. 2) They may not have the knowledge of the more experienced leaders of what ius okay and not okay to do within the pack, council or CO. 3) As a new leader, they have more than enough on their plate just trying toi figure out how to do the program 4) And this may be the most important one..or not, but....How much do you know about this guy/gal? Are they trstworthy with money..do they possibly have a gambling problem? Just stuff to think about.

Legal and right are not the same thing. What he did was legal, although not necessarily the right thing to do. Had he oipened the account in the packs name, them it would be a civil matter with the CO and misrepresenting the public IF he keeps any of the money for himself or anything other than what it was intended for. If he does turn over all money to the pack....the worse thing you can say about him is that he is having a un-scoutlike attitude. But still, I'd get to ntalking with the CC and leadership as well as the COR. THis guy may not be the type you want in your pack.

Yeah, I giotta agree with Moosetracker: It does not souind like the boy wore the uniform out of a pre planned notion to get publicity. He had no ide what a photoghapher would be thinking and planning. He wore the uniform out of pride in wearing the uniform ( which is awesome) and as it turns out, the photographer chose to make him the photographic centerpiece of the story. Yeah, it ended up being great for PR, but that wsn't the intent. It was a resultant bi-product of somebody's pride. Plus, the scouts intenst are not summed up by any poster's feelings.

I know you're trying to be helpful and open... but this -- "...and hopefully do alot to show that not all Muslims are extremists/terorists." -- struck me as exceedingly odd, even offensive. It made sense to me. in my area of soutrhern persuasion.... way too many people think terrorist when you mention Muslim. They don't all understand that Muslim is not a race or that it isn't a country. After 9-11 especially, any dark skined person was harrassed for possibly being Muslim..even when it was completely obvious they were Hispanic, ASian, Indian, etc... I took " and hopefully do alot to show that not all Muslims are extremists/terorists. " to mean the OP knos rthis to be true, but knows that once people meet this scout and his family, they will soon realize that not all people of the same race, religion, local, country, etc are exactly the same as every other .

"But I think Scoutfish has never actually dealt with it. " WEll, yes, I have. But I guess that depends on what you mean by deal with it? WE don'r deal with it actually,. We just treat all boys as boys. WE treat all cub scouts as cub scouts. The family was with us for twop years untiul they moved away. During that time, our pack never made any issues about any differences or dwelled on them. Did the family have 100 percent participation in every event all year long? Nope, but the same can be said of all the rest of the families also: Vacations, oter obligations, work, sports, schools taking priority over scouting ,religious observations and restrictions, etc... THis family may not have been the most strict of muslim families...or they may have been fairly strict. I really don't know since I didn't look at the boy as a Muslim scout. .. I just say him as a scout. Every person in my pack has some issues, restriction, belief, code or something trhat causes them to not fit 100 % with everybody else. WEther it be against Decorationg Easter Eggs, Santa CLause,celebrating Christmas, birthdays, allergic to chocolaye, nuts, allergic to anything and everythiung in the woods to being allergic to humidity ( actually it was eczema that worsened due to high humidity) Anyways, our pack has mand has had it's share of diversity amongst it's members. WE just keep ourselves focused on what common things we have. LIke I said, the scout may have to bow a few times a day. He may not eat half burnt hot dogs cooked over a campfire. So what? Treat him for what he is...just another cub scout. No issues unless people want to make them.

Treat him just like everybody else. Other than the name they bestow upon their god, and that this boy may need to step aside and pray 5 times a day... he is just another boy. Personally, I think tis is a great oppertunity for your pack. My pack is lucky as we have several different religious cultures involved. It hasn't been a problem yet.

And.... Nah, just kidding! I didn't have any more to add.

And it is not my aim or goal to say anybody is wrong or misguided, or that my beliefs are better, worse , or more divine that yours of anybody elses. My only goal is to say that as we all have so many different ideals and interpretations....that the OP shouldn't depend upon or rely on our own thoughts or beliefs to rate or grade his . Besides, we all know God said we WERE NOT to judge one another.

Oh, and thanks, but no thanks...I don't need to be reconciled. I am strong in my faith. And I am at pesce with my faith. Matter of fact, I was diagnosed with Stage III-B cancer less that 2 years ago. I ws given a 3 to 5 % chance of survival. But it was my faith that kept me totally at ease, in good spirits and saw me throug to the point where not only do I have a VERY clean bill of health, but where they cannot detect that I ever had cancer to begin with AND that there are no statistics to tell the experts why? And I did not undergo chemo or radiation! My point? I will argue with anybody that I am proof of miracles happening!

Once...I didn't say a single thing about God. Only about people. But I will give you two fine examples of PEOPLE making mistakes and contradictions. 1) MAT 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ." BUT THEN... LUK 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli. So...who was Joseph's father? 2) ISA 14:21 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities." BUT THEN... DEU 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." So children will be punished for the sins of their fathers, yet, they wont be punished for the sins of their fathers? Again, I did not, nor did I ever say God contradicted himself, nor did I ever say he messed up. I did say people who did the actual writing, translating and such, made all kinds of mistakes. Think about it..not all words can be translated. Styles od speaking within a language or dialect are many, Then change the dialect or language or even culture...and what do you have. People make religion in a way to suit their own nees..which is okay with me if that's what they want to do...just as long as they remember the changes they made. And living in the south...I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people get upset about seeing a statue lor painting of a black angel or black Jesus. They get so offended over the fact he isn't portrayed as white. Really? He isn't white? Even though he was born in the middle East. Next to Africa and India..where there are no native or natural white skinned people. At the very least, they will have tanned or dark olive skin tone. I mean...it's Israel and Egypt, and Sudan, etc.. There isn't a whole lot of white people just hanging around! Then I have friends who think the King James bible was written straigh from God's mouth with absolutely no translation or change in words. NONE! So everybody spoke perfect American english 2,300 years ago? Bible scholars are now realizing some things don't add up. There are alot of marginal notes that were taken as fact. Some words were just translated to the most likely appropriate english. Then look at sins: Why do we think one sin is worse or greater than another? Who told us that? Why is this sin a tiny one, but that one humongous? Why is it wrong to murder, but we can shoot without question a young man messing aroud with our daughter? And speaking of sins...lets look at the ten commandments. Was it really ten or was there two, but the second one coverd many things...which were somewhat itemized? And again, lets get back to the whole Sabbath thing. God said we were to rest on the Sabbath. Exodus 20:8 Moses says : "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath unto the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates....." But the Sabbath falls on Saturday. So we can decide to ignore this command, but not others? Why the difference? Why can we chose to follow one rule, but ignore or change others to suite our needs? Because man uses it for his own purposses. Again, I did not say GOD, but people and organized religion! And lastly, Satan. He is referenced soooo many times in the bible..yet many mainstream Christains say he/it doesn't exist. WOW! That's pretty much their own admission as to something either being wrong in the bible or the fact they are suiting themselves and theior own pursuits over what is written. How long before they write a bible that omits any and every detail about the deviol? Me, I have my faith and my belief. And I do not need a group of people to gather and decide which way and how it should be. Now, I am not saying the bible is all wrong. I am just saying that different people who have different versions of what happened - wrote their own version in the bible, They told things the way they sw them and understood them. Who knows who paraphrased and who quoted exactly. Take 25 pewople and stand them side by side to watch any event happen and then later, you will get 25 uniquely differet versiopns told to you as to what happened. So, just as I saids to the OP ...why ask us when we cant agree on anything else? What is to say we aren't giving OUR version as we were taught to understand it by people who told us their version as they understaood it? The killer is in the details..and one wrong detail can mean everything! (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

WElcome Back Kotter! Ooops! WRong forum! WElcome back.

Baden, yeah, I know what religion is. Thanks though. You pretty much said what I said, but with different words and a whole shorter and neater. " Might as well be an atheist. " Says who? By who's opinion and judgement? Which is my point exactly: Should I be an athiest based on your opinions or your beliefs? If mine are different - can you prove yours right and mine wrong? Based on what? The bible, is basically just like a boss ( GHod) having his secretary ( us way back when) take dictation. God might have siuad to write this down, but it was written, re written, translated a whiole bunch of tiumes through different languages, cultures and people over time. Kinda like a grapevine: The end isn't very close to how it started. And why do I say that? JUst look at the differences between all the different denominations and religious practices amongst Christains. Which one is the correct one? Has to be one if they all act different, so which one? Personally, I don't have much regard for organized religion. I mean, I have no issue with anybody else practicing and living what they believe, but for me.. "organized religion" is all about power, politics, and greed.

I guess it comes to this: Any of us can say yes or no to the originbal question, but we aren't "The Judge" who is the only one authorized to make that call. WE are only guessing based on our own limited, and narrow knowledge as it was presented to us by other people using their limited and narrow knowledge.