Scoutfish

OUTDOORS, First off...I am not ticked off. Not in the slightest bit,. Just countering the fact that you'd require climbing peaks to be real camping. And 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins is EXACTLY how far it is from my troop's CO to the closest high peak to climb. So, just like Basement said, we'd get to the mountains around 3am Saturday morning to begin our hike after getting homwe from school. I guess we'd have a few hours to walk in circles, eat, set up our tents before taking them down and heading back home. Unless we take 2 more days off each time we go "real" camping. Now, I don't know if you actually have any family or not, but most scouts do, and that's where they are during Thanksgiving or Christmas. Alot of them are spending time with family - even if it is mom's decision that they do. And since it is really 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to the closest peak, that does make things more costly. Ga$, $upplie$, $topping for food. And you know,,,maybe things in your area become free during summer and maybe even the adult leaders suddenly get paid for not working all summer long..but not in my troop's area. We still have to pay our water bills, electric, cable, insurance ( house, car, dental, medical, life). Still have to buy food too. So yeah, that still means having to take off work to go "real" camping. Okay, now what I said about pizza and beaches - you said that would be a nice bit of variety and break things up ...right? So wouldn't you agree that the same thing could be said of cxamping in a ball field after a game? Your troop enjoys ordering a pizza every now and then too , right? Well sure because it's fun and keeps your routine from becoming stale. So why can't a ball park hotdog do the same thing? Nobody ever said that all they were ever going to do is go camp at the local ball park. But it was said that this does count too...becauser not everybody can go to the perfect place or go "real" camping all the time. I know my troop sure couldn't do it for 20 nights if we had to travel the 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins that it takes to go "real" camping. Again, I am not mad at all. Not ticked off or even upset. Not even close. I also wasn't the one who came in and said that another troops way of getting camping in was a joke. Just saying...not everybody can just drive an hour to the mountains. Thing is, camping is just that: camping. Can be at a lake, on an undeveloped island in the middle of a huge lake or in the middle of the intracoastal waterway ( way far from the mountains). It can be in the lush green woods to the side of an awesome canoeing river. It could be in the mountains or just the foothills. Maybe right smack in the middle of Iowa or Kansas. And if I drive 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to get to the mountains, I do not want to sleep in a cabin. I sleep in a 4 walled shelter with a roof and floor every night. It's called a house. Where's the spirit in that. Just saying...in a not at all angry, ticked off or upset state of mind. See.... I'm smiling to prove it. >>>----------->

10 year old mini van? WOW! I wish my vehicle was that new! I drive a 17 year old pickup truck. But truth is...I'd still drive that truck if I won one of those powerball lotteries. Yeah, cost is definantly a huge consideration.

My wife is the one who will has an isue with it. She got mad at me when she asked me if my son and I would still share a tent and I told her no. Well, maybe she was mad because I had a huge smile on my face when I said no. She also got apprehensive when she asked me if I would be the one teaching him stuff and I said no. Or it could be because I said I'd be sitting in a chair chilling out or cooking something in my DO. I love to cook by the way. I think one of the reasons that I was aksed to be an ASM is because I beleive in learning by mistakes. I will let a scout make a mistake in a heart beat - as long as real harm isn't going to happen. I know most people will learn more from a 1 minute mistake than they will from 5 days of lectures. Again, as long as somebody won't be really harmed or injured...I'll let them make a mistake. The SM thinks that I'm going to be an asset. I also usually get up before everybody else while camping and get the fire going and coffee too...so they may have alterior motives for asking me to be there?

Ooops! I meant to throw in there somewhere: Alot of the reason that members of our pack did not do things is because the older leadership did not make newer leaders or parents or scouts aware of the oppertunities out there. Our old CM didn't like council camp so she just knew that nobody else would be interested. The ACm thought district and council events were too expensive for his taste so he never bothered to pass on any info about events. We used to hold our family pack camping on the same date as the council's second camping session. I worked hard to have our pack camping 3 weeks before the council's first camp session so that people could attend both without overdoing it physically or financvially. People could do both instead of choosing between them. Again, I post anything that could be of interest to anybody in our pack wether I am interested in that event or not. And not just stuff that is done on a pack or den level, but stuff that can be done on the individual family level too. Civil war reenactment, 50% off at the aqarium day, Air show at the local military base, tractor pull/mud bog, etc.....

I have an answer for you, but will have to bring it down to the pack level. My pack pretty much did not attend RT. They didn't go to POW WOWs, BALOO, District events, banquets, council camp either. Why? Because alot of the leadership - who had been in leadership awhile - wasn't interested in that stuff. So when I took over as CM, one of the first things I did was blow the dust off our pack website and recruit a parent to step up as webmaster and also create a facebook page for us. I have full admin power as well as the CC and webmaster. We post anything of potential interest to our scouts and parents. I myself do not really care for our council ( cub scout) camping as it is really geared to Tigers and Wolves - BUT..... I promote it, I tell parents what the council offers and I tell them that everybody needs to do it at least once and to ignore what anybopdy else says about the camping because: just because Tom and little Jimmy hated it does not mean you and jr will hate it. I went to our newer leaders and encouraged them to go to RT's. We go to district events, camporees ( Webelos, that is) and banquets. I encourage d den leaders to stop by the scout office/shop. JUst looking at all the books, gear and activity stuff gave them new ideas. I also encouraged my leaders to try new stuff and think outside of the box. SSure that one activity has worked well for the past 15 years, but lets try something new. It may be the best thing we ever try. If it turns out to be a bad idea afterall...well, we at least we now know! If it turns out great..then cool! We are doing our job and keeping the program fresh! Simply put...you need somebody who truely believes in doing those things and can sell it to the boys and parents.

I would rather see a 4 day 3 night backpacking trek over 40 miles up and over high peaks where it is common that a night or 2 or all may be in a lean-to or remote cabin. WEll wouldn't that be awesome! Then you could officially say that my troop would only go "real" camping once a year as it is 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to those high peaks, and streams where the scouts will have to purify that water before drinking it. Leaders having to take alot of time off from work. Scouts missing alot of school as they would have to have 4 day weekends to do it. Of course, the scouts probably couldn't afford to go since so many parents are taking off so much work to be the adult leaders - their paychecks are lower. And the scouts couldn't earn the money since they would be too busy making up all kinds of missed school work due to the 4 day weekends needed to travel 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to go "real" camping. But what if your troop CO is in the mountains? Wouldn't that pretty much be just camping in your own back yard? Where's the spirit in that? I guess your troop would have to drive 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins to the Atylantic Ocean, where you'd camp on a flat beach - next door to condos, hotels, seafood resaurants galore, tourist traps, beachwear shops, and hot dog stands. Wow! 448 mi, 7 hours 30 mins of traveling and you'd still miss the spirit of camping! So...has your troop ever ordered a take out pizza? It's a shame if you did because you missed out on using a DO and that is part of the real spirit of scouting too. But if you just do it in a pinch or one time.....well, maybe it's not such a disturbance in The Force afterall!

" All we all have proven in the last few dozen post is that we are legends in our own mind. Ouch, touche', and AMEN!

Let's see how much I shake things up in the next few weeks! I am going to accept that offer to be an ASM, and come June 1st, I will step down as CM of my pack - to take on the position of ACM. The l;eaders, committee, and parents of my pack really enjoy what I have done and how I fought to get a dull program changed around and more exciting. They do not want me to leave. And the troop my son is crossing over too also have seen the energy and fresh ideas ( thinking outside the "same ole routine" box). I will step down as District Cub Scout camp promotor, and in the process step down from my district committee position. Don't want to overdo it! But I am going to be on both sides of the scouting fence at the same time by being a leader in both the troop and pack. I know that you did this Basement....how did members of the troop or pack regard you?

" We really don't want to involve them with the new scout patrol to avoid Webelos III - we've had that happen in the past (not by choice but by lack of volunteers). " I've heard of SM's who stole money from their troops in the past...so does that mean that the SM of the troop my son is fixing to join will steal money too? Seriously! Somebody at one time did something back when - so you think everybody will do that from now on? Our sister troop asked me to be an ASM before they even asked if my son was going to be a boy scout and before they asked - if my son was going to be a boy scout - if he would be joining thier troop. Why? Well, from what they said..they really like how I turned the pack around in many ways, how the parents, the leadership, and the scouts ( both cub and boy) act towards me. Do they ask all parents if they are going to be an ASM? From what I have gathered so far...NO! I'm guessing they do not judge everybody based on what somebody did in the past..but as individuals. It may turn out that Den Leader dad will be stuck in his den leader role while the other two may start fresh without any previous biases and set ways. There have been a few troop leaders who quit or became alot less active when they found out "That's not how we used to do it when I was a scout" didn't give them card blanche. Just saying, don't judge me based on what somebody else did in the past and I won't judge you the same way.

It's not that much of an issue in my district. In my council? I honestly don't know. To a certain extent, it is an issue with ALL scouters: A few Wolf leaders smirk at Tiger leaders. A couple Webelos leaders might look down at Bear Leaders. Some Committee members kinda sneer at den leaders and CM's. Some Boy Scout leaders give Cub Scout leaders patronizing looks. Every now and then, a crew leader acxts put out to be surrounded by boy scouters and cub scouters at RT. But we are talking about a very, very small amount of people in our district who act this way. Why? Because in our council, our Cub Scouts by far outnumber troop , ship or crew numbers! This is in membership, camp attendance, fundraising, activity involvement. When it comes to council camping, I ( as Cub Scout Worl Camp promotor - for our district) just have to say: "Hey we have a camp coming up! ..and people start grabbing camp registration forms. The boy scout camp, on the other hand...they have to beg, plead, and really push it hard to get attendance. Is this normal or typical? Well, it doesn't sound that way based on the above posts. Maybe it's our area? Maybe the parentys? Maybe the boy scout program needs work? Or maybe parents see crossover as a staopping point? I don'ty know. But I do know this: most prestige is something that starts within. It's mostly egotistical and the most prestigious are only prestigious in their own minds.

Well...it did ask for stuff not directly related to the program ...right? LOL! A la carte is what I meant! One day I'll have to tell you about my "brown eye gravy" story!

Ummm...yeah... LOL! Typing too fast. Nah, it doesn't say anywhere ( that I know of) of what they should do at any pack meeting. Technically, they aren't supposed to recite anything except The Pledge of Allegience. That is how we do it at pack meetings. Usually they all recite the Cub Scout promise. When the Webelos take their turn at recognition, they usually start out by saying the Boy Scout Oath. When I was saying SUPPOSED TO , I was refering to learning it and reciting it ( wether at home, den meetings, pack meetings, etc.. )

Nancy, Our first year Webelos start out at pack meetings reciting the cub scout promise. As time goes by, they learn and recite the boy scout oath. Our second year Webelos recite the boy scout oath at pack meetings because they are supposed to. It's in their Webelos handbook. They are supposed to learn that as well as the scout law, motto, slogan, and outdoor code. They are also supposed to learn and know the names of all the different parts of the 1st class badge. FOR EVERYBODY Yeah, WEbelos is a learning/ preparing/ transitioning to boy scouts stage, but is is supposed to still be fun. We do not turn our scouts into boy scouts! That is what the troop does. We just get them ready to join the troop that will turn them into boy scouts. Also, Fun is not something we push aside. Webelos need to have fun. I'm not sure how any of the troops in your Co's or areas are, but our troop still has fun. This isn't the same as getting married and getting a job! If the boy scouts do not have fun in the troop they are in...that troop is doing something wrong! Fun is not supposed to stop at Bear rank! I am 41 years old and I have fun with my pack and I have fun when working with the troop. I have already been asked to be an ASM with our troop. You know what? I plan on having fun with the troop too! So - the original question: "Are Webs mini-Boy Scouts? " NO! They are Webelos Scouts! Think of them the same way as you do the US Marine Corps......."United States Marine Corps - Depart. of the Navy" The Marines are not Navy, but a side dept of the navy. Marines are not Navy. Navy is not Marines. Webelos are a dept of Cub Scouts. Okay, technically they are cub scouts, but Cub Scouts are 3 differet classes: Tiger Scouts, Cub Scouts, Webelos Scouts. All are cub scouts, but each is like a different dept within BSA. I guess Boy Scouts are like the Army or something?

Our pack has an annual BBQ chicken dinner fundraiser to handle costs of giving each scout the necker for the next rank as well as his next rank's scout book. We also cover AoL awards and such. Our sister troop does the same thing: They have a spaghetti dinner fundraiser at least once, and sometimes twice a year as well as have a pancake and sausage breckfast dinner fundraiser> This stuff helps cover cost of travel awards, neckers, etc... Both our pack and troop have very low member dues as compared to oter units. Our pack's dues are $40.00 a year. $18.00 of that goes for recharter and BSA insurance. The other $22.00 goes to the pack. The troop dues are $60.00 a year. What we do is charge a minimal amount for dues, but charge ala mode for events and camping. This way, people are not paying for events they cannot make due to work, sports, school, etc.. All scouts help the unit grow by participating in unit fundraisers. And as the case usually is: The scouts who more actively participate in fundraisers are the ones who are more active at camping, events and such. So, instead of paying $250.00 dues for being in the troop, you only pay $60.00. Stuff like patrol boxes, patrol mess kits, patrol stoves, DO's ect..are provided by the troop. Matter of fact, when my son and myself cross to the troop, the troop is providing the necker, shoulder loops, and slider for myself and my son( and other scouts and troop leaders). The pack is providing the boys with their Boy Scout Handbooks. Of course, this fundraising also covers harship funds . We will not turn a scout away, or leave him behind when we go camping just because he cannot afford it. And I mean afford it, not because he's saving his money for a ipod or because he spends $30.00 a week at the arcade or on magazines.

If memory serves me correctly, it seems like we had some issues with those cars from Michael's a couple years ago. The tires or axels did not pass muster at district PWD. Soimething about the wording wasn't exact either. It might have been that it said Boy scouts on the box, but it wasn't the offical wheels, axels or correct size blank block of wood. Of course, the district PWD committee also deems any wheels and nails that did not come in the original box as "non spec". So if you had bought genuine BSA colored wheels from teh scout shop ...they were considered illegal. Go figure! So this year, one of our members did buy one just so we could inform or pack memebers of wether they were leagle or not...and the cars were good. We let the district PWD chair know at one of the RT's ( a month ahead of time)that the kits from Michaels were BSA licensed and approved kits. Many of those in attendance echoed our sentiment, so district dropped alot of "illegal" items from their list.

Over two years? Thing is.......it went unnoticed the first year and went through a second year before getting caught. So how much money did they have that the first year went unnoticed? Our pack will - at it's peak - have around $7,000 in our total account. But this would also include money that has to go to recharter, to the scout office for popcorn sales, new registrations, fall ccouncil camp fees , and include den as well as individula scout accounts. We will drop down to around $600 to $700 at our low point. And $600 is a scary low amount. So, we might go as high as $7,00 with 120 scouts at the beginning of the yeat, what did this troop have? 12,000 Boy Scouts?

the answer is simple: next time the council wants to send a FOS rep to your unit, just say: " You have to cut the unit treasurer a check for $155 ( scout parent level suport in our unit). NEXT TIME THE COUNCIL OR DISTRICT ASKS FOR VOLUNTEERS, TELL THEM THEY NEED TO CUT EACH UNIT A CHECK FOR $155.00 PER VOLUNTEER PER UNIT FOR THE VOLUNTEERS TO HELP. Next time the council/ district wants to hold a banquet or RT at a unit, trhe unit should ask the council to cut a check to the host unit for $155.00 per attendee who shows up.

After becoming Cm for my pack, I wanted to make sure each and every leader was fully trianed. This was just before position training was mandatory in my council. THis was just right before Leaders Essentials became This is Scouting . My De said that we could get somebody to register as Pack Trainer and that this person could get the YPT video as well as position specific videos and play them at a training session, and then write up a list of people who attended. That as well as encourage trainings, keeping leadership aware of training dates and contacting council about trainings is all that a pack trainer can do in our area....on the pack level.

Okay, I'm in a pack, not a troop, so things are a bit different - but you know me.....I have to chime in! At pack campouts, there is a time and place for everything. Cub Scouts ( or their parents) will bring Nintendo DS PSP's I pods, walkmans, etc..... I bring my DeWalt jobsite radio. It serves a couple purposes: It has a 3 way outlet on the side, it has a built in surge protector/voltage regulator. It also has an auxillary input for a pod or MP3 player if we want to play the National Anthem or something else that ties into a scout ceremony. I also play it at a very low volume when just sitting and chilling by my cookstove or while making early morning coffee. So, cell phone can be a great tool - but like everything else - they do have a proper time and place for use. When scouts are on free time..they can do whatever they want. Some boys listen to music right before they go to sleep. Helps some go to sleep faster and better. Doesn't do it for me., but to each his own. If the cub scouts want to listen to their music when they first get up and sit around the camp fire, or at the end of the day after all activities are over....fine with me> But there are times we ay no: Colors. Blessings and scouts own. During den activities or any other time an activity is going on. During grace, meals, or campfire ceremonies/skits.......NO DEVICES. Yeah, the point here is that there is an appropriate time for everything, but we need to help share that and teach it . Rascal: W aren't teaching a dependancy no more than having HVAC is. Yeah, we want to teach a scout to survive when it comes down to it, but we don't do that by taking everything away. Why not strip him naked - dump him in the woods and se if he can make clothes and forage for substinance and build a shelter too? Everything has a time and place. Or job is to help a scout learn when and where.

Girl Scouts make it easy too: Buying a boy of thin mints? Costs you $3.50 Buying a box of Lemon cookies? Cost is $3.50 Gonna but a different flavor? Will cost you $3.50. 2 boxes any flavor - mix and match: $7.00 2 boxes any flavor - mix and match: $10.50 Popcorn - not so easy, this tinmy bag cost $16.00, the next size up costs you $25.00 Next size up costs you $35.00

The troop that my son will be crossing over to in about 3 weeks has asked me to come over and be an ASM. They know me, have worked with me( and vice versa) and apparently like what I have done with the pack/boys. They also see that alot of the scouts in the troop like and ( I suppose) respect me. So, I know the troop does things diferent than a pack. I know the difference between boy led and adult led. Matter of fact, my theory is I will stand back and watch the boys do what they are going to do - but step in only if I have to to prevent injury or worse> I figue the best way to do that is not so much stepping in with the scouts directly ( unless real harm is immenant), but maybe taking the PL aside and saying : " Hey, maybe.....". Yeah, I can read job descriptions all day long, but I wanty a real world laymans description. So: " As an ASM, my main job is............" Thanks!

"She is blaming the BSA for failing to detect this individual and preventing the crime....." Did any of you ever see that movie : Minority Report? What does she expect? Is BSA supposed to run some sort of "pre-cog" task group? Nobody can know beforehand what somebody "may" do. All you can do is act on it. Now, if the man already had a record, and he passed background anyways..that is an issue. But if his background was clean and he had no record up to that point..then nobody can do anything.

Candy bars are the way to go! Well, at least look at it in this light: About 1/3 of the people you solicit just wantb a way out. They do not want/can not afford to spend money on your product. So...some of them will give you that dollar or two dollars for the candy bar just so you will go away!Giving you a dollar is easier than having to say no. Nobody is going to give you $16.00 to go away!

Well, since each rank is not dependant on reaching the previous one ( except for Bobcat), I'd put him in Bear. THis way, he will be working in a den with boys who are in the same class group in school. If he really is that mature for his age, this will be the right place for him.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Well...I talked to my Cm prospect again tonight, and he all but said he'd do it> I think he is going to do it. Right now, he is our Tiger DL, but he stepped down to that position from Bear DL. He has 3 sons in our pack as Tiger, Bear, and 2nd year Webelos. So, he has been active withour pack for at least 5 years, and has very fond memories of scouting hgimself. He only went as far as Life or Star ( I forget which one he told me) but stayed in it till he aged out. He kinda wishes he went for Eagle, but will also tell you he doesn't regret that he didn't. He had a blast in scouting and it really shows. So I am thinking of stepping down to ACM with the pack, and was asked tonight if I would become an ASM for the troop.