Scoutfish

Basement, I did say that if a black person went through a predominantly white neighborhood in my area, he would be watched, scrutinized and possibly harrased. Me? Nah, I do not care . If they start snooping around houses, I will call the law. But In would also make that same call on a white person too. I'd make that call on any race of people..if they do sincearly appear to be doing something suspicious. And in my point of view, the action of being suspicious has the exact same requirements no mater what your race is. Now also, you have to realize, i am in a southern-ish state. As sad as it is, gang activity has reared it's ugly head hear years ago. At least once a week on the news you hear about how somebody was robbed, beat up, or killed by "several " people with the same colors as each other. At least twice a month, there is some sort of gang violence that happens.Listerning to the newsanchors talk about shootings is almost as common as the weatherman talking about the sun coming up. And again, 90 percent of the people in those neighborhoods are what I'd call nice people. It's the other 10 percent who are the punks, thugs, and people who just have no moral compass. THis is not restricted to one race either. We have racist white people, we have blask racist people, hispanic racist people and so on. Did I mention that NASCAR, Budweiser and the rebel stars are just as common on flags as the Stars and Stripes around here? I would not call a black person racist just because he did not decide to go through a neighborhood full of white folks with rebel flags in all their yards. I'd call that black man realistic about the real world. And again, most of the resident probably woul;d have an isue or cause trouble. But a few would. Thing is, they do not wear name tags or distribute maps showing which ones would. The result is, you end up avoiding the whole place because of a few people. It's sad the world is this way, but that's how it is. Another way to mlok at it is like this: Even though I am not prejudiced towards hispanics, I do know that some towns directly across the border are bad news for Americans right now. People getting shot, beheaded and flat out disappearing. That does not make people who avoid that town racist. It's really happening. It's a fact. It's avoiding trouble. We know that not all of the towns folk are doing that, but the handfull of cartel men are - are justification enough to avoid the place.

Why not have a "are you good enough to be a sniper" challenge? Shoot bottle caps or golf balls from 100 yards?

Skeptic, You know what, I looked in te 12th edition book ( and I assume that the earlier editions are pretty much the same) and actually do not see scout as a rank that has a checkoff page. I only see joining requirements and that scout is the first rank. When I brought this up to another ASM, he told me that I ( as the ASM of the new patrol) will review the material ( ie: test their knowledge) and check them off. At that time, they go to BoR or Scoutmaster. Now, he may have not said this as a true BoR . He may not have even said BoR at all. Maybe I just thought I heard it. Could be he said Sm review. To be honest, we were talking about this while also setting up for an Eagle ceremony. I can't lie and say I never misheard somebody or that I never mis stated something to somebody else while I was busy doing something.

They definantly know how to tie it. I've seen them do it many times. I just never paid attention to which side they started with...but since left/right doesn't matter - it's a non-issue now. The boys from the other pack that joined our troop...Don't know. But they should know how to tie it since they too just recently earned their Arrow of Light.

Double post : (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Troop, Let me claify: I am the one who is going to sign off the book and be the one who says he has satisfied the requirements of the rank. This is before they go to the BoR. I am not going to be on the Bor , nor is the BOR going to re-test them. I am going to review ( or test- call it what you want) the scouts to see if they know the requirements ( which they all do since they just earned AoL) , and then sign off in the book . Then they can ask for a BoR. I never said the BoR was going to test them. Never said I was on the BoR. I am going to review them, to make sure they are ready to go to the BOR. IF they are ready, I will sign off in the book, If not, I will encourage them to keep at it and help them with learning the knots.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I'm with you Eamonn...I am not racist or bigoted myself. BUT....... I am a realist. I do know that if you go into a predominantly black area, "some" of those people will give me grief and cause trouble because there are those who are the bad aples of the group. But I also know that it works both ways. I live in NC. While not the deep south, it's still a southern state. I know that if a black person walks into a predominantly white neighborhood, he will be looked upon with scourn and the chances of him being labeled , targeted and even harrassed are good. Not by all the white folks, but there are still a handfull of bad aples. Still some racism and bigotry that has been handed down over the years from generation to generation p[resent. I guess I look at it this way: In any big group of people, the ones who speak loudest are the ones you see and hear from. Those are the ones who end up defining that group. Nah, it shouldn't be that way, but it is that way. So you might be in that neighbor hood of 3,000 people and 2,990 of them will pay you no mind and wish you no harm. They might even take the time to invite you in for coffee and chat. But the other 10 guys are the ones you have to watch for as they will go after you for whatever stupid and ,alicous rteason they can think of. Point being, you aren't watching out for the entire neighborhood. You are watching out for the ten. Problem is...which 10 are the 10 you have to watch out for? THis works for everybody too. Doesn't matter if you are black, white, Chinese, Irish, German, Mexican, etc.... Does it make you racist? Nah, I don't think so. I think it makes your realistic about the world we live in.

I couldn't tell you if that is the exact reason why, but you are correct in that they do not wear jambo patches. As CM, I wear the patch from the latest cub scout camping we went to wether resident, parent son, or camporree.. The scouts like it and makes them want to go camping to get the patch too. Of course, once they go camping, the patch is no longer the main thing on their minds.

So as a new ASM, I am going to review the scouts from the newest patrol on their Scout badge to see if they are ready to go to the BOR for that badge. So I was talking with a long time ASM and he was going over fine details and such. So when we get to the square knot, he says "Right over and then under the left side, then left over then under right." So here's my question: Does it have to specifically be right side first or can they do it opposite with the left side first? Not trying to split hairs, just wondering as I do not want to short change the requirement. I do not see in the book where it specifically says this, but it does start with the right side first. The reason I am asking is this: I have been tying this know for over 22 years myself, but I never actually gave thought to, or paid any attentiuon as to which side I started with first. Personally, I'd think as long as they tye the knot - it shouldn't matter. But maybe it does? I know that uniform knots are displayed in a specific way so .............. Thanks!

So let's crlarify something: Are trhey already signed off on AoL by the former DL? If so, go ahead and give it to them like Eamonn said. It's not really your place to back track at this point. But if it isn't signed off, tell them that a scout is honest and trustworthy and that all of you are going to do it right! Don't blast the old DM for not doing it right, just explain there was a mistake made. Now, Basement brouight up the birthday thing. He's rigfht. Birthday has nothing to do with any of this. Unless they are about to turn 11 . At that point, they can join a troop right now without the AoL. Was the age a "reach by" point? If so, that would explain why the former DL rushed things and did it half a**ed. If that was the case, you need to let the boys and parents know that a boy can join a troop at 11 years old or ( special circumstances) join at 10 if he has Earned the Arrow of light. Under Arrow of Light, you will see the specifics such as how long you have been active, what you have done with your den and other requirements for AoL. BuI'd like to add one more thought to this, based on what I saw at my own pack/ son's Arrow of Light Crossover ceremony a week ago: We invited 3 boys from another pack - who were joining the same troop - to come and be a part of our AoL ceremony as we had the OA coming and the OA dance team. Wanted them to get the oppertunity to have a big shin dig for them too. So anyways, while just going over some fine details before the ceremony, the emcee of the ceremony tells the boys how they will each say a part of the Scout Oath while lighting one of the candles. So at that point, one of the boys from the other pack looks at the emcee and says: "But we don't know the Boy Scout Oath!" Then the emcee says :"You should know it, it's part of earning your AoL." ( he wasn't being mean or saying it in a snide way either) So I look at the scout and ask: "Do you know the boy scout promise?" And he then procedes to say the Boy Scout Oath without missing a single word. Maybe he was nervous, maybe he just knew it as the promise instead of the oath? Don't know. One of our boy knows it by heart, but will go blank and get that deer in the headlights look if you surprise him by suddenly asking him to say it. If he knows he is going to have to say it, he can say if forwards and backwards no problem. But surprise him, and he will fudge on the "friendly , courteous" part. Just something to consider

Engineer, I have to echo them too. Anybody can be a big asset to a unit. Ideas, different ways of seeing thiungs, having s good bedside manor with the youth, just being there can be a big help. As you can tell from your own experience, long time scouters can get a bad case of tunnel visoin and have a skewered way of looking at things.

It's an Arrow of Light requirement: Your choice between a hike or camping as a den. We did both at the same time. Funny thing is, I would have swore on my paycheck that I read ( somewhere) that it had to be at least 3 miles, but I cannot find that specific distance in any literature anywhere!

In my experience, the first 2 things new parents ask are: 1) How long have you been in scouting? and 2) Do I have to stay here with him?

How long have you been doing this? Where is your uniform?

Welcome to scouting! So, it sounds like you are experiemcing a "normal" Tiger leader year. It's normal, but that don't make it completely right. Your Cm or CC should be willing to help you out. Granted, they can't always be at every meeting or stay the entire time when they are there, but they should be able to help you some. As for the parents: This is the Tiger year. They HAVE to be there. They are an adult partner to the Tiger Cub. Sure, this does not mean they have to bring cookies and milk, but it does mean they have to be there helping with their Tiger Cub. Now, you have to remember, you are a volunteer and even though it may not feel like it, you are greatly appreciated for VOLUNTEERING your time - even if it's not from your den or pack. So, as a volunteer, trhere is no law saying you have to put up with un neccesary crap from parents or the pack. You do not owe them your unending time. Next meeting, tell the parents that if they do not do something to help out, that it will all end . If they do not help out and participate, they can take over because you will be going elsewhere. You may have read or noticed that in the older dens, there areregistered Den Leaders ( DL's) and registered Assistant Den Leaders ( ADL's). Well, in Tigers, you do not have that because ALL parents are ADL's to the DL. As for snacks, we dropped that fom our planning because each family had a different routine. Some cubs had a snack right before the den meetings, some would have it after. Some of the boys already ate supper or were suppose to right after and the parents didn't want to spoil their appertite. I'd just tell every family that there will be a break at "X" o'clock and they can have whatever it is trhey bring - if they want to bring it. If not, it can be a 2 or 3 minute rest. So, long story short: put on your mean game face and let them know how it's going to be.\ from now on! Don't ask...tell them! Good Luck!

You are in a tricky spot for sure! No doubt they "appear " to not have earned the Arrow of Light, and yes, it must be earned. Giving it to them is an insult to those who have really earned it and also, giving it to them does not do them any favors at all. But having said that...you cannot blame the boys. The ideal thing to do here ( while using alot of tact) is to say: "Ooops! Mr/Mrs ( whatever the former DL's name was) misunderstood a few requirements for AoL. Then explain that in keeping with scout spirit, you are going to quckly catch up by knocking out rthe requirements. At this time, I wouldn't worry about or question wether they earned the Webelos rank or not, just worry about doing AoL right. And if anybody asks you, just tell them that the requirements for AoL are just about exactly identical for joining a troop anyways. It would only serve to embarass the former DL and possibly even the pack if these boys try to cross over to a troop without the real knowledge of the scout oath, motto, slogan, handshake, sign, salute, 12 points of the scout law, and outdoor code. Do they know and understand what the names and different parts of the first class badge represent Can they tie a square knot? If not, they will have to demonstrate all of this before Earning the scout rank. Again, this is stuff they were REQUIRED to know to earn the Arrow of light. Good luck!

Well, let me start off by first saying that every state has a different set of rules and regulations. We go to a soundside park down at the beach. It's a combo boat ramp, fishing pier, playground , mini amptheatre park. In my styate ( NC) those under 16 do not need a fishing license. Now, since we are a coastal pack, at least 3/4 of our members/ parents have been fishing enough to know what to do. Some are semi pro, some are just dangerous! The realitry is this: we pretty much figure we are going to help the kids fed the fish. If they catch fish....that's awesome! We have a catagory for first fish caught, biggest fish, smallest fish, ugliest fish, the most fish caught, crab, strangest object caught, and starting last year, first person to be bit by their bait. WE do not buy trophies, but print out homemade certificates from : http://www.cyberbasetradingpost.com/docs/create-a-certificate1.cfm We usually bring a big ice chest full of bottled water and we bring a grill to cook hotdogs. The boys love it, their sisters lover it and all the parents appreciate the benches that are scattered everywhere.

WHOA! I was totally kidding about the SPL using the term "guys". That example is just as rediculous as the Sm telling the SPL not to tell the scouts they can be an Eagle one day. Hey, lets call the SM and tell him that he should petition the schools to keep teachers from telling kids they can go to college. Or maybe we shouldn't talk to our kids about moving out and getting a job and getting married one day. Maybe we should just drop the whole "Just say no to drugs" idea while we are at it because, well ....lets face it.... some people will get addicted to medicines that were prescribed to them or will become alcoholiocs due to heredity. Matter of fact - let's just stop encouraging anybody from doing anything good since it's just not possible that they ALL can succede! Again, I cannot believe the lack of tact or brains of this SM . The job is to encourage , not encourage all. Some people beat all odds. And "can" is not the same as "WILL" .

Well, I think the bigger issue is that he said "guys" to his fellow scouts! I mean, we do not want them confused and thinking they are really "guys" when in truth, they are only just adolescents. WOW! Talk about PC overkill. I hope this troop doesn't talk about about advancement because frankly, not every scout advances either. Might be time for the CC or COR to have a friendly talk with the SM about this.

I believe officially it is Webelos Den for boys working on their Webelos badge, and Arrow of Light Den for boys working on AOL. No, it is Webelos den. You may have more than one den of Webelos due to the number of Webelos you have, but then it would be Webelos den 8 ans Webelos den 3 or whatever their den number was, but both dens are just Webelos dens.. Our pack informally refers to them as Webelos I and Webelos II - which is short for first year and second year Webelos. But again, that is an informal reference we use and not a correct or standard reference. Now, if you have a den based on those working towards and one based on earning AoL.do you do the same for lower ranks working on rank versus arrow points? What if one or two scouts are either slower than the rest or faster than the rest? Do you pull them from one den and stick them in the other? So anyways, back to the original post, we introduce them as the upperclass cub scouts within the pack, We explain that they are winding down their journey and that they are working under harder and more intense objectives. We tell our audience that they are gettiung close to meeting the requirements of AoL.

Yeah, I'm probably gonna just go with an ASM shirt. The adults will know who I am and what I am doing. The scouts know who I am and can't wait to see what we are gonna do next. They act the same around me wether I am in full scout uniform, blue jeans and button up shirt ( Christmas party) or pink unitard and tutu!

Our scout building is out behind the CO. It's a 20 X 25 bulding that we share with our trrop. Size wise, it's great for a single den to meet in, or can be used as a PWD workshop, and the troop does BOR and troop meetings when the weather doesn't cooperate. The troop committee wilol also condcut buisness there while the troop is doing troop stuff. This building also has a 5 X 10 closet for the pack. It's where we keep our stuff including our announcment easil and pack flag. So, anyways, we have a few boys who are nbot mean, just that they have a never ending suply of energy. They go from sleep straight to high gear and nothing in between. Right before they get ready to run around and act up....I usually grab those boys to carry the flag, the base, the dry erase board and easel back to the scout building. Then I tell one of them to grab a football out of the closet and bring it to me. Of course, along the way, ( like always) they pass and throw it back and forth amongst themselves and forget that they are supposed to be bringing it to me. Again, it's not that these boys are intentionally being bad, not are they being malicious. They just are overwound and need to burn off some energy. And we do get moving during pack meetings, but these few boys..unending supply of energy!

I am to velcro , what salt water is to bare metal! Well, my succesion plan is working, come June 1st, I am stepping down from CubMaster to be an ACM. I have already started working with my excellent replacement. The pack wants me to stick around, but I am thinking that, by the end of another year, I should be able to step dowm completely as there should be plenty of fresh new faces to take up the positions. So it comes down to buying an extra shirt for 1 years worth of service. PLus, I challenged my son . While he goes through his physical challenge, I told him I was going to do the same - so if that goes well I will be also losing shirt size or two ...meaning I may have to buy another one anyways and definantly do not plan on buying two in order to have one of each.

WE do ours the first Monday of June. Our pack is a nine month meeting pack, but we do at least two packe events during June , July, and August. W did something different last year: Instead of planning for the entire year, we just planned from roundup til Christmas. Come January leaders meeting, we plan the second half of the year. Worked out better for us since about half the stuff after Christmas is subject to change or reschedualing.

Okay, even though this is a question about uniforms, it is not a uniform question. That make sense? LOL!' Okay, here's the deal: I am about to be dual registered as an ASM, and ACM. But look....I am not going to buy two seperate uniform shirts. As I see it, I may have one more year - two tops in cub scouting. So, it's gonna be double duty shirt wearing. Plus, the troop meets immediatly after the pack does on the same night. Now, I am thinking I should switch to a troop uniform since the cubs may not pay as much attention to color of the numbers as the fact that I have them. Cubs are there more for the show, and do not notice every small detail. I am also figuring that as far as the cubs are concerned, they will only se my uniform during pack meetings and campouts. As far as den meetring nights, they usually only see me for a few minute prior to and after the mneetings. So what do all you dual registered cub/boy scouters do?