Scoutfish

BALOO is for PACK CAMPING , not den level camping. A Webelos DL does not have to have BALOO to take his den camping . Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders (OWL) is recommended, but not required. BALOO doesn't really add any value to a Webelos den camping, especially if at a joint troop function. It mostly deals with making sure that you plan for everybody at a pack campout including brothers who are not cub scouts and sisters who really are not cub scouts. It keeps you mindful of mom and dad being there also. BALOO is making sure you do a family campout that has a bit of scouting flavore to it. OWLS is about a den of cub scouts camping. No brothers, no sisters. Full on scouting while camping. I'd suggest that Webelos DL's or those who are about to become Webelos DL's take IOLS if they get the chance as it will be beneficial to a Webelos den. Now, I also like all my leaders to take BALOO too that way we for sure always have somebody who is BALOO trained for a pack campout. It's required that you have a BALOO trained person present/onsite while PACK camping.

This year was the first time we sold camp cards. I had asked our DE about it the year before, and he kinda told me he didn't think it would go over that well. He said we should stick to popcorn in his un-official opinion. He said that popcorn was a far better fundraiser and camp cards generally did not do so well. WEll, this year, I sold my pack on it mostly because....well...popcorn sucks and it's not a good deal at all. The DE said we should maybe only order 100 because most troops in our district only sell 200 or so cards. No other pack sold them. We asked the council for 3,000 cards. So far, we have sold 2,487 cards..give or take a card or two. WE have another week before we have to turn in the unsold cards. Not that I think we will sell many more to be honest with you. So, we sold somewhere around $700.00 in popcorn this year. WE sold %11,435.00 in camp cards with %5,715.50 going to us and to council also. Versus the $233.10 going to the council

When my son was 4 or 5, he wanted to play soccer. So we joined a county soccer league. His coach was awesome. She was great witrh the boys and girls and she was more about the learning and trying and participating than anything else. WEll, game day was always on a Saturday at one of the centralized county parks. Now realize, this park was a county park. Soccer firleds, baseball fields, swings, slides, open fields, walking trails , basketball and tennis courts. So when you showed up Saturday morning, the first thing you were greeted by was a person sitting in a chair at the entrance to the park...collecting money for the youth leagues. You were EXPECTED to pay to get into the park. This was not a park employee or county employee, juust somebody on the soccer league. So I would say: "WE have a soccer player here." Meaning that - I have paid his dues, bought over priced shirt, shorts, shin gaurds and shoes through the league at a higher cost than I could from a sporting goods store. This was my way of helping out, even though I PAID FULLY for my son to play soccer. Well, this would get you a snooty speach about why we were just shameful people for not supporting the socer players ( you know...my own son!) Now, this person also felt that if grandma and granpa wanted to take their grandchildren to the park to swing - and had absolutely nothing to do with playing soccer, watching soccer, or even being near the soccer fields - shouyld also pay some mony since soccer was going on at the time. THis would get you cussed at when you didn't "donate of your own free will". Okay game time: COaches screaming and yelling at kids. Parents cusing and screaming at refs and coaches. Parents telling kids to kich or trip other players intentionally. Threats of parents kicking other kids ( remember - 4 and 5 year olds ) butts for getting the ball away from "precious" . About halfway through the season, my son didn't want to play any more. Which was fine as my wife and I were ready to tell all these people where to stick it. The coach even called the league secretary and said that the bahaviors from parents, coaches and even committee was unacceptable. She ended up quitting too. So, after that, my son played Upward soccer. That's a church league in case you didn't know or never heard of it. The down side is they never keep score. Sure, I get why, but learning that everybody is not a winner all the time is important too. Nothing wrong when celebrating a win or learning good sportsmanship when you lose. Winning shows your work and teamwork paid off. Losing teaches you to try harder and work on your weaknesses. Besides, wether you officially kept score or not, the players knew who won or lost. But the main thing was, you didn't have the threat of fistfights, bad language and total lack of respect for the kids. So, yeah, it is a priveledge to work with kids. No matter if in sports, school, scouting,anything! Maybe people who work with our kids should have to pass a test and carry a the card just like you do for a tot'in chip. Having kids is a big responsibility, working with other peoples kids is a huge undertaking and a BIG priveledge!

Okay, I am not completel;y sure I understand your question, so I will give two different ideas that could be along the lines of what you ask: 1) I have seen Male parents walk up to a female DL and a male committee member..and even though the female was in charge - they turn to the male and ask about the activity, rules, etc.... 2) A for difference in mentality, I also do know this: When mom take the boys to resident camp, parent son weekend, or pack camping - they bring the usual stuff, but also a bag with shower soap, toiwels, shampoo, fingernail clippers, and such. Dad's won't! We know ...wait..we expect our boys to get wet, muddy, nasty and end up with dirt inplaces that even surgeons would be amazed by. We even question their malehood if they do not get dirty enough! Showers while camping? Are you crazy. Wash your hand before preparing or eating food is one thing, but baths? OUCH! Cub Scouts are little Supermen, and showers are their Kryptonite!

Yes...no....maybe? The pendulum ios on the opposite side of the swing. Used to be a time when an eptileptic was yelled at for having fits. Dyslexics where just thought to be dumb or trouble makers. No consideration for anything that was slightly off for you. Either you were okay or you were "retarded". Speaking of "retarded"...how many were sent away to institutions because it was a black mark on a families name to have a less than stellar child. So alot of great stuff is out there, but unfortunatly, it is also at a time that we are full of the opinion that " it's not may fault, everybody owes me something. the rules don't quite4 bapply to me, or I can sue somebody because....." So while I do think we are pretty much in the right direction, there could still be some tweaking. And in some cases, it just is beyond my understanding. Example: Yellow stres cards during boot camp. Really? If having a drill instructor yell at you is too stresful, what do you plan to do while at war cand are getting shot at, bombs blowing up around you and the enemy tracking your every move in an attempt to kill you? That's right! Show him your yellow card! So, yeah, things are heading the right way, we are just in the rough draft right now ...and some people are just taking advantage of it. But hey, can you blame them? Every time you turn on the tv, some lawyer commercial is telling you that NOTHING is your fault!

Welcome to a website full of your peers. W all were you at one time: we did, we volunteered, we were/are active with our kids. So, it's not so much what you will do ( because if you are like us - you will do it all anyways ), but how you will do it. That's where the boks come in. As far as being just like everybody else,don't! Be yourself. So far it is working an is an asset!

I'd say the SE was being too strict and applying the rule too much. Ity didn't sound like the scout ( based on your post) made any reference to the uniform or scouting. But at the same time, BSA will readily tell you how many presidents and/or politicians who were scouts and who were Eagles. Hmmmmm?

Never heard of it. We used to use PackMaster and it was okay, but then they went from a download from disk to your computer to being an online program. Glitches, issues, problems aplenty! We decided to scrap a $100.00 a year program that didn't work over 80% of the time and started using traxx instead. Dens use tiger traxx , wolftraxx, beartraxx, etc... They print out advancement and give it to our advancement/awards chair who in turn puts it on scoutnet. He sends it to the scout shop and national at the same time. Haven't had a problem since. Matter of fact, we also are about to scrap PackLedger too. That costs us $100.00 a year also and it's complicated as hell. Our newest treasuere is a CPA and is grteat! But gets lost looking at PackLedger too. Said it was over complicated and that it makes you go around your elbow just to your backside. Takes her 1/4th of the time to use some office or excell spreadsheets instead of doing the same thing on PackLedger.

" This is what I was thinking, but I figured it goes part-n-parcle with being a Webelos so why call it out specifically? Maybe trying to emphasize that they are different than Tiger/Wolf/Bear?" Yeah, they are - somewhat. In Webelos, you do not have free reign as a boy scout, but you are at a point where you are learning how to be a boy scout: Scout oath, scout law, scout promise, scout motto and salute. You no longer work on electives or requirements for rank. Instead you work on activity badges which is akin to working on merit badges, Parents can no longer sign off on parts of advancement, It must be the Webelos DL or ADL. Boys can elect to us ea patrol; name for their den , patrol call, patch and flag. Still a den, but would be ( for example) called "The Cougar Den" instead of just the Webelos Den. As Webelos, they can go camping as a den only. No otrhervranks with them , just Webelos. So, they are still Cub Scouts, but like the upperclass of scouts.

I'd say secure is not limited to buying. Securing means you "get" the ingredients. A scout is also thrifty. If his dad has a big garden, and has corn, and one of the ingredients is corn on te cob, and the scout brings it..then he secured it for the requirement. Likewise if dad is a butcher, or nighbor is a baker, etc..... If the scout was supposed to "buy" the ingredients, it would say "buy" , not secure. As for "All or nothing" , I say that the SC does not have the right to make this call. He would be changing the requirements or adding to them in that they all have to be done simultaneously. Requirements 4-a through 4-b can be done at any time. The scout could go to the store when his mother or father do and check and compare prices. He could explain at any time, during any meeting, to or from a troop activity or campout - what utensils and gear to use to cook and serve. It says "tell" not demonstrate. 4-e is pretty much waiting until your turn as cook ends up on the duty roster. Besides, if it wasn'r obvious to teh SM in question, they are 5 seperate check off boxes and 5 seperate initial and date boxes for requirements 4-a through 4-e. If they were all or none, they would be all in one check off box.

Moose, " Then something like Extra marrital flings after age 25, wife swapping is only after the age of 30.. " Would this require the EDGE methood?

The item actually says: "Help organize Webelos dens and encourage graduation into a Boy Scout troop." Okay, kinda vague, but I take it to mean help them get organized - not create one. By organzining, it more to mean help the Webelos den transition from being like Tiger, Wolf, and Bear dens into slowly becoming boy scouts. Things liek letting the boys vote on a patrol name, flag, patch. Let the boys have more input on camping activities or places for when they camp as a den. Work WITH the Webelos DL in setting up meetings with thetroop, joint acttivities and service projects, See if you can't get the boys to be invited to a COH just watch. Maybe they can be a guest patrol in a troop at a Boy Scout camporee ( if the council/ district allows it) Anyways, I do not take it to mean create a Webelos den. Just help them out. At this point, if you have to create a Webelos den, you really need to take a big look at your other ranks and how they are doing things.

"Tiger, Wolves, and Bears have den names. The Webelos don't, because the way I see it they can choose their own den name, much like a Boy Scout patrol chooses a name." Actually, they do have a den name. It's called a Webelos den. They can choose to use a different name , almost like a boy scout patrol does. But they are still a den. They are in no way considered a patrol. If they choose "cobras" as an example, then they can be refered to as the Cobra den. They can use a cobra patrol patch in place of their den number patch, but are still called dens. Unofficially, call them what you want. We say Webelos I and Webelos II in reference to first year Webelos and second year Webelos. They are just Webelos either way, but it's quicker to say Webelos I or Webelos II.

I used to hate the mansions...well, I still do , but see them as a necessary evil. If I do not buy a hammok, I wiull buy a mansion just for the fact I can set a cot in there and a chair too. I'm tired of the sore back I get from hunching over to put on a shirt or that para-breakdance move that I do when putting on pants: First you lay on your back and stick your feet straight up. Then try to put your pants on. But your arms a a bit too short, so you assume a ski jump stance - just flat on your back. Then as your pants are bunched up around your thigfhts, you put your feet down and arch your back like a backwards inchworm. Still, after all that, you really can't zip and button your pants until you step outside your tent! So what to look for? Poles that are connected by shock cord! Seen ttoo many foilks drive 2 hours to camp and start setting up at dusk only to find out they are missing one piece of pole. THese graphite poles are springy and absorb quite a bit of stress so all stress is absorbed at the pole instead of the fabric tearing some where. Tub style flooring. This way, you do not have to worry about correctly putting a tarp under your tent. I only put a tarp under my tent when the ground is very rough, roots, or if I think the ground will freeze. Rain? Nah, not an issue. Rain fly! Make sure it covers past all openings and windows. The bigger the better. I also bring an extra tarp with me that I use as a secondary rainfly. It stays at least 1 foot off my tent. This also halps with blocking some heat and blocks out quite a bit of the lioght from a full moon. I would also say that you cut the size rating in half. My four man tent is really only a 2 1/4 man tent. By the time you toss in two back packs of clothing and personal toiletries, it is more of a 1 7/8ths man tent. After figuring out the size from the previous example, try to only go as big as you have too. Nothing worse than goping to a pack campout and having 24 mansions that take up the whole camp. Then you find out that half of them only have one person in them. And the tuaght lines are criss crossing each other like a DMZ barrier! Don't worry about getting a camo or forrest looking colored tent. You are not going to make the natural wildlife feel any better after having a bunch of scouts running around whooping and hollering all day. Trust me, the color of your tent is at the bottom of the list of things that could disturb the animals!

While you can no doubt, not pin point all the woes of our current education on any one cause...I have noticed that many schools now ponder wether to even have recess anymore. Back when I was in school, students did have a better shot at learbning, we also had an entire hour to play, plus we got an hour for lunch, and a short break during the day. So, lets take young kids, stick them in a chair all day without stretching their legs, and have a teacher drone on and on and on. No free time, no break, no chance to unwind. Then every teacher will assign homework as if they are the only teacher who does that, and you have kids getting up at 6 am to get ready for school and who have no break during the day, then stay up til 9 or 10 at night doing homework. The kicker? Teacher4s whio think you are bored to tears during the weekend and so they assign you a couple extra reports or projects that require you to work all weekend long for the next 3 months! Again, not the whole problem, but one of the many parts of it.

I think you know this troop well enough. But your son needs to be the one to decide to leave. It needs to be his decision. Now, I'm not saying you just do nothing...I'm just saying you shouldn't tell your son that he nees to find another troop. What you can do is encourage him to realize what is going on and encourage him to either stick with it or move on. By encourage, you can ask an open ended question, and ansmwer his questions with open ended questions: Old_Guy : So son, how are things going with the troop? Is advancement going the way you planned? Are you doing stuff like camping and hiking? Son : No dad. Advancement is non existant. W almost do nothing at all. Old_Guy : So you mean advancement is harder than you thought? Son : No dad, I am trying to advance. I am trying to get blue cards, but it's like the SM just doesn't care. It would be easier to explain nuclear physics to Fido than get a blue card from the SM. Old_Guy : So you are making an effort, but nobody else is? You see where I am going? ASk him questions, let him think them out and come to his own realizations. Don't give him a direct answer, but answer with another question that will cause him to think about, and hopefully understand what he needs to do. Thing is, you "helped" him, but he thought it through. He will decide and make the decision all by himself...which is just as very much as important as getting blue cards and advancing or earning MB's.

So let me make sure I understand this correctly: The boys could have went to town, but just didn't want to . The SM didn't stop them from going, they just decided that for themselves. At dinner, the SM just didn't let them have french fries - he didn't prevent them from eating any fish, other sides ( if any) of having bevcerages. So the "no dinner" part of no lunch or didnner is really just " no fries" with dinner. Man! I suprised somebody didn't call child welfare, Geraldo and the National Guard! Just kidding with ya. I'd say bite your tounge. There was no harm, no danger and the SM wasn't the one who decided not to go to town. He also didn't tell them no dinner either. He sounds like a SM I'd like to serve with: Let the boys make their own mistakes, let them learn from them, as long as the mistake doesn't involve harm or death. These boys were not hungry. Not by a long shot. Yeah, they wanted food, but were not hungry. A hungry person will go get something to eat. He will find something to eat, He will make an effort. In this case, lazy outpowered hungry.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

So, not traying to condemn any one person or say there is an absolute line in the sand about right or wrong, but........do we look at ourselves the same way we look at scouts when certain behaviors or levels of acceptable behavior are concerned? For example, we have a few DL's who will expect a scout to attend all specific events' , required meetings ( covering particular skills, requirements, etc...) when it comes to earning a rank or award. And they are just in doing so. But, why do we think that it no longer applies to us. And again, this is not directed to any one individual in particular. Okay, at an EBOR, scouts are regularly asked if they felt they have lived up to the scout law. WE expect them to make good moral decisions in regards to everything they do, every award earned, and even to refuse a MB that wasn't 100% up to par. Yet as scouters, we have no issue with doing less, charging more, sidestepping the rules because it is easier/cheaper/quicker/ more fun/self promoting/ or we think it should be that way instead of the way it really is. Adult knots, training, rules about advancements and concerning adding/subtracting requirements are constantly talked about in these forums. (Some) WoodBadgers will look down their noses at non-WoodbDgers just because they do not have WB. WE judge other scouters we meet for the very first time by the number of knots they do or do not have. WE judge scouts and their ability as well as their mentality by wether they have a full uniform on or not. We even chastise scouts for not wearing their uniform as sharply as we percieve it should be, but then we ask if we should cut corners on adult awards, register trailers in other states because it's just easier overal, or we directly attack each other with vile insults because we agree or disagree with a new program, that we all have almsot no person experience with. And yet we expect scouts to be perfect model citizens. IT's almost like we can't wait for them to screw up so we can thump our chest with all our procedural knowledge and intelect in showing them why they are wrong and failed. Sorry son, you didn't bring your scout handbook to your BOR so we are gonna fail you. You need to reschedule another BOR , just don't do it next week because we are gonna be busy registering our trailer in a state we don't go to, while on our way home from the scout shop where we bought knots for leaders who didn't quite meet the requirements that we felt were to strict anyways. Can't do the next week either because we will be busy going to RT and scoffing at the new guys and the ones who do not have their WB neckers yet.Probably can't do it the week after that either, gotta insult some people who participate in activities I do not personally like > But keep your head up, you will get there one day. Remember, it's all about living up to the scout law!"

The only time3 I have done something with an award that was not quite up to spec was when I wanted to present one to my CC for an outstanding job. He went far and beyond the requirements of the award. But, the paperwork called for the CC to sign off. I talked to my DE and SE and they said that - naturally - the CC shouldn't sign off in this particular situation. You know, for the surprise of it and all. So we skirted the CC signature part of paperwork and used my ( CM )signature instead. But we didn't compromise any of the actual requirements of the service to get the award

SwampYankee, I wan't ranting towards you. You asked a legitimate question. But , I am assuming you are pretty new to scouting? Welcome aboard! You will in time see, that, well, there are certain areas in scouting that - well....to be blunt - are sorta a joke. So the only thing we can do is try to bring respect back to scouting by policing ourselves and holding ourselves to a higher standard. The knots are a great example. If you fudge one item of requirent, and I fudge a different one, then the next Cm, fudges a different one, etc....pretty soon, we have a a knot that we have shown that most of the actual requirements mean nothing. It means the requirements become trivial statements. 20 years from know, Knots will just be a shirt decoration that you can sew on without any more requiremnet than putting a name bar or sewing the world scouting emblem.

Okay, they are "just" knots, right? So what's the big deal if we bend a rule , no? It is a big deal. Here's the thing: I have leaders who could be wearing 5 or 6 knots right now if only they went to RT's. Now, some of my leaders with 3 boys have been DL's or other positions of importance within the pack for a long time. They are the core group of adults who are always there plkaning ahead of time for campouts, B&G, crossovers, etc... They are part of the core group who set up beforehand, and clean up afterward. They have more sweat equity in one year than most parents have in 5. They spend countless hours and who knows how much of their own gas and money doing stuff for the boys. But the thing about the knots is this: They are for a broad range of actions and have a set standard. I could easily say that my leaders have done ten fold more good than what it takes to earn a handfull of knots..... EXCEPT ..... they haven't been to RT's Pow-Wows or University of Scouting events. And you know, RT's aren't aren't the Holy Grail of scout knowledge, but do offer important ideas, knowledge or even some ( been there, done that , practical experience. Now, you can look at it this way too: As soon as we decide to fudge "just a tiny" detail here or there, then why shouldn't we fudge a tine detail on a scouts advancement or even rank requirements? Why not fudge a detail over an adult who's background check wasn't quite good enough? Why not fudge the amount of produict we give a customer while fundraising? Why not fudge what we give the boys at camp? It's all about integrity. A iot is, we have adults who collect knots and awards just for the sake of being able to thump their chest and boast about how great they are. And it makes us mad and causes us to tend to roll our eyes whenever we do see a shirt with a handfull of knots. So how do we tell the earned for the right reason knot wearers from the "chest thumping, everybody let's get one" knot wearers? We start by policing ourselves and stricking to the minimum standards of knot requirements. That's just my $0.02 worth! Wearing my EARNED knot and proud of it.

Couldn't tell you why, but I took a look at the tag on the collar of my Uniform shirt. It was made in Bangladesh. If you don't know, it's located between India and Burma. It's more of a "stan" country than anything else. "stan" country is what a few of my friends and I call the countries that end with "stan" : Kazackistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan,Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc..... Just saying because somebody would say Bangladesh is practicaly China.

During pack meetings, We call up each den - one at a time - and the bDL will tell the audienmce what the den has been doing, working on, etc...for the last month. He will them hand each boy his BL, patches, badges, awards, etc.. all in a smal ziplock bag while reading what they are to the audience. The audience usually give a short round of appluase to each boy. Then the next den is called up. WE don't do anything super special for the same reasons basement said: Too much time and pretty soon, the boys would expect applause and an award for wiping their mouth after eating or remembering to flush the toilet. Now, if a scout earns his LNT award or Cub Scout Activity or Cub Scout World Conservation award, we will call up the individual scout to present that.

Well, I know 2 of our 4 ( used to be 8 ) districts take turns hosting camporees. Our distrcit hosts the spring camporee and our neighboring district hosts the fall camporee. Both are open to each other's district. Not sure if the other two districts host any. But proper name aside, do councils usually host a council wide event besides summer camps and such? Maybe state wide jamborees?

Do councils normally have jamborees? As long as I have been in scouting, I haven't always paid attention to the boy scout side of it, so it is possible my council has had one in the past 5 years and I just didn't know it. I am asking because , if I am reading it right, a fw councils do have a jamboree every now and then. Matter of fact, I was sent a friendly invite a few years ago by a fellow scouter.com member to go to an event in Kinston, NC. I think it was a council jamboree if memory serves me correctly.