RememberSchiff

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Newsroom/News_2011/news_2011_Q4/sr_Gilmanton_scouts_110711.html "New Hampshire Fish and Game reminds hikers to be prepared with appropriate gear, including warm clothing and lights, as the days shorten and the nights grow colder. It is also important for hikers to stay together when venturing out as part of a group." Yep, be prepared. My 0.02

For me, the point of the thread was what can be done now to bring past BSA child abusers to justice. Personally I feel the BSA will use the same stonewall, Cover Your Assets approach as the Catholic Church with the same (or worse) negative consequences. There may be a way to atone and turn this around.* As to 70's abuse awareness...Neighborhood Watch started after the Kitty Genovese murder in mid 60's. That was another tragic case of people failing to respond to another being victimized. In 1974, the federal Child Abuse and Treatment Act (CAPTA) was enacted which funded many state protection program. At this time, most states started mandatory child abuse reporting laws. "Mandatory" in that there was a list of people required to report child abuse or neglect - school personnel, medical professionals, police, child care providers,... report as in drop a dime and call the police or Child Protective Services, not write a memo in a notebook and put on a shelf. And I think the crime dog McGruff came along in late 70's to take a bite out of crime. *Note: Since the Father Porter case twenty years ago and all the Catholic Church missteps since, I and other scouters have been unable to start any unit at our town Catholic Church. The parents, all Catholics (current, lapsed, former), will NOT support it. Form a unit anywhere else. End of discussion. Period. Another 0.01,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Thanks Engineer61. That site you provided referenced the Reform the Statute of Limitations on Child Sexual Abuse website http://www.sol-reform.com which had a 50 state civil and criminal charts listing statute of limitations for child sexual abuse crimes. http://www.sol-reform.com/images/sol_civil.pdf http://www.sol-reform.com/images/sol_criminal.pdf Quite of mixture from no statute of limitations to a little as 4 years for a criminal complaint. Another $0.02

Instead of using the less than cooperative Catholic Church response, what if the BSA 1. Asked for a federal prosecutor and handed over the "perversion files". Since the 2006 Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, crimes against children have no statute of limitation. A federal offense against a minor can be prosecuted at any time, even after decades have passed. The following federal criminal charges have no statute of limitation: * 18 USC 2241. Aggravated sexual abuse. Engaging in a sex act with a child who is younger than 12 years old is punishable by a minimum sentence of 30 years to life in prison. The same penalty applies to sexual conduct with a child who is between 12 and 16 years old if the defendant is at least 4 years older. See subsection ©. * 18 USC 2242. Sexual abuse. Engaging in a sex act with any person by force or threat of force, or where the other person cannot legally consent, is punishable by life in prison. * 18 USC 2243. Sexual abuse of a minor or ward. * 18 USC 2244. Abusive sexual contact. * 18 USC 2245. Any sexual abuse that results in death. * 18 USC 2250. Failure to register as a sex offender. The penalty is not more than 10 years prison under subsection (a). * 18 USC 2251. Sexual exploitation of children. The sentence is mandatory prison of 15 to 30 years. See subsection (e). from /www.federalcriminallawyer.us 2. lobbied to remove the statue or limitations for child abuse and sex crimes at the state level. Some states have, e.g., Florida did last year in spite of the Catholic Church. Other states, e.g., Oregon, Washington,...have not. Anyone have a list of states that have removed the statute of limitations? My $0.02

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-scouts-molest-story,0,3130016.htmlstory This is about Rick Turley, scout leader and pervert in both the BSA and Canadian Scouting and the BSA failure to act other than just documenting in their "perversion files". Just terrible, this predator could have been stopped...report any suspected criminal act at any scout activity directly to the police. My $0.02

Our differing and often emotional opinions on non-scout topics tend to pull us apart and spillover into scout sub-forums which I do read. Maybe it's just me, but I can't say that I have heard anyone talk about politics, religion, sex, ... at troop meetings, roundtable, or any scouting activity. Maybe scouting is where we go to get away from that stuff. Some fish, some golf, some scout. Seems there are plenty of other internet locations to rant about that non-scout stuff. But that my 2 cents, don't like hearing my opinion you can always squelch me

If the whole Issues & Politics (what does this have to do with scouting?) sub-forum disappeared on "Mischief Night" (Halloween Eve), I would praise the goblins, until then I am grateful for the AdBlocker Plus plugin for Firefox. My 2 Hershey bars and let it snow for Halloween!

A required $200,000 septic system upgrade, and "The Canadian camp is a nine-hour car ride away, and although about half the Scouts who use it are from other councils, Tinnerman is operated solely by the Cleveland council, Craven said. Attendance at Tinnerman has nose-dived by 71 percent since 2002, and a new high-adventure Scout camp to be opened soon in West Virginia's New River area -- less than a five-hour trip away -- will likely cause attendance to drop off even more, he added." ( Pat Craven, Boy Scouts support services director Greter Cleveland Council) http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/boy_scout_alumni_banding_toget.html I wonder how many more small local camps within a ten hour drive of the big box Summit camp will go out of business. For the $400m+ Summit cost, 2000 local camps could have $200K septic upgrades. Another telling quote "Our (Greater Cleveland Council) mission isn't to run camps, it's to get those boys to camp so they can still get that high-quality experience." Really? My $0.02

Agreed, they are crap, certainly not the quality of Gilbert chemistry kits or Heathkit of yesteryear. I looked at a crystal radio kit they had and decided to have Cubs make their own (okay I soldered together a rock diode for them, but they built everything scratch). Build/bake from scratch and learn. Amazing how many low quality, dumbed-down "kits" there are today. Why there are even smore kits, sold at the Scout store! My $0.02

The challenge in planning a meeting is NOT to achieve the longest, non-boring meeting be it 90min, 2hours, 2.5hours, rather to achieve balanced compromise between the troop program and the boy's schedule. A troop meeting should not monopolize a school night, which likely includes an after school activity or job, family dinner, chores, and HOMEWORK. Maybe you should be asking how many scouts participate in an after school activity or job. How many hours of homework do they typically have on meeting night. 90 minutes generally seems a good balance. My $0.02

Our packs were definitely heavier. I weighed 185 at the start, my loaded pack was 70-75 which was also the load limit of Philmont's pack burros. Most in my patrol could carry as much as a pack burro and travel faster, but we welcomed trek segments where burros were available to offload - much easier to setup camp at the end of 10+ mile hike. This was the late sixties. I had saved and invested in the largest BSA pack available and it had something new - an aluminum pack frame and a waist belt. As I recall, all BSA packs before then were knapsacks even the Yucca. All my white t-shirts had black sweat imprints of that frame. My back liked the rigid external frame then, I doubt it would now. My hiking boots were the same basic Sears clod-hoppers (no LLBean, no Vibram soles) I had always wore for scouting. Cotton socks and blisters to prove it. Cotton everything else except for poncho. Tents were heavy even without a floor; sleeping bags bulky. I had Army surplus stainless steel mess kit and canteen with canvas cover (good enough for the Army, good enough for us. I still like stainless steel water containers.). We carried an ax and saw for wood fires, though we did have some Sterno cans. Plastic bags were ok, but plastic containers, bowls, buckets...had a nasty habit of cracking back then. We made do with what we had or could make. Our patrol quartermaster carried a repair kit for tents, clothes, boots. With approval, we went off on our own frequently. The paradox, for me, with the lighter, better gear of today why are today's treks shorter and require more adults? I see less of that attention, resourcefulness, and thrift in the program now. Today it is have yet another fund-raiser, spend, and it must be top-of-the-line, if two adults is safe then three must be safer (We had 1 adult). Better, more expensive equipment but less scout independence. Wish I had my LED flashlight back then, other than that my equipment though heavy was adequate. I weighed 170 at the end. I had a great time, my personal high point in scouting. My $0.01

Yep Venturing has only been around for 13 years, but if you compare the first 13 years of Boy Scouts to Venturing, the "standard uniform," and I use quotes b/c many scouts of the time used GI surplus uniforms that were the model for official BSA uniforms, you will see an explosion in public awareness and growth. I say a standard uniform would contribute to a greater awareness of Venturing. Good idea, allow scouts the option to wear the BDU's (fatigues) of today's services as their uniform, including the BDU's their relatives may have worn (which was very common back at the start). Thrifty, patriotic, increased awareness and maybe membership. No sewing, use velcro for basic badges and of course add a real larger, square necker. I think the Coast Guard BDU's would make a cool Venture uniform. My $0.02

as for the boys... all the ones that I know of in our troop actually look forward to having to do it - guess they think it's some sort of becoming a man thing You're right. It is a rite of passage (oatmeal is my friend) and something I look forward to every morning. Gotta go

Yeah "Cupcake Scouts". Are scouts allowed to even climb trees these days? Back in the day, I remember a tree climbing requirement for Wolf. Our trees were climbable but not tall enough for the requirement which I think was 20 feet maybe higher. I had to search the neighborhood. Mrs. Rice had a tall willow tree with many limbs. Perfect, now if only she said no. Mrs. Rice did not cooperate and up the tree (slowly) I went while Mom watched and said if I fell and broke my neck, she would kill me. Words of encouragement were different then. Why mention this? Well I was scared of heights. If I climbed a tree it was just to the first limb within my arm reach. This requirement challenged me to go higher. Later as a Boy Scout, building three story signal towers for flag signaling were common. That was Scouting. We did things that other kids did not or could not do and we took pride in our accomplishments. Awards and the uniform were just reminders. I see less challenge and adventure today. Sad indeed. My $0.01, P.S. In appreciation of Steve Jobs an old joke "What's the difference between Apple and the Boy Scouts? The Boy Scouts have adult supervision." Would that we were more like Apple.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

"Wearing uniforms has been a method of the Scouting movement from the beginning." No as I recall, the "Uniform method" began in 1982, before that there were just 7 methods of Scouting. The uniform remains optional, as a scout is and should be a scout whether he is wearing the uniform or not. And that's the hard part in teaching Scouting values, that you are a scout 365x24x7 no matter what you wear, scout activity or not. My $0.02,

Good video example. Some related points I make when I teach leadership 1. Be aware of surroundings (dangers, resources,...) 2. Alert to situation (both current and potential) 3. Quick to act 4. Safety of others 5. Brave My $0.02

Good idea. This application paperwork could use some serious streamlining.

Look a gift horse in the mouth. Casually talk to the transferring families to determine if the other pack's "problems" are among the transfers. Maybe mention, we need to form new dens what are your ideas of assigning boys. Some years ago, we had a similar influx and among the transfers were the two root problem families. Initially, they seemed pleasant on the surface but they quickly got back into their "agendas". Took more than a year to get rid of those bad apples. Too late as we lost some good Scout families in the process. The other pack closed shop the next year. My $0.02

Yes according to the article, 1. BSA spokesperson says "units determine their own membership" (the new local option? Can we get that in writing?) 2. The CO pastor Phil Holliday (BTW,he's an Eagle Scout) says they are simply following the rules (and as shortridge asks where are these "rules" stated?) 3. The SM had no problem with Ms. Steele's past and continued service as an adult scout leader. 4. The local National Capital Area Council missing in action. Doesn't add up. My audited $0.02,

Is he the SPL or not? Sure discuss your troop concerns and his new leadership team. What are the meeting by meeting or month by month goals and expectations, how will you guide them in their new leadership positions, how will you utilize (keep) the older scouts (should they be challenged to form a venture patrol with separate activities?), how will you handle your leaders who fail. There are many leadership learning experience ahead as he and his appointed team leads the troop - responsibilities, successes and failures, choices and consequences,... I would only intervene if my SPL has promised a leadership position to a scout and failed to keep that promise and, of course, if I had safety concerns. We teach them to make their own decisions and then step back (the hard part). My 2 aspirin,

I think its disappointing its a sad day for Boy Scouting. I think the actions are really out of sync of what scouting stands for, Eric Ianson, a friend of Steeles and an Eagle Scout said. ... I mean, when the leaders of the troop hear that (the Scout Law), how does it feel? Were they loyal to Denise? It certainly wasnt kind what theyve done to her, Ianson continued. It absolutely isnt brave. The brave thing to do would be to take a stand here and say this isnt right, this person has been great to our kids and its time to stand up for her and be great for her. Even other assistant scout masters from Steeles troop felt it was vindictive, like Joe Leonard. I saw that he was vindictive and on a witch hunt because he asked her personal friends what her sexuality was. Theres no business in that. Its a shame that a good leader for the boys has been removed because of one person whos eccentric when it comes to his religious belief, Leonard said. Its also a sad not that [boy Scouts of America] has not or is not willing to entertain what other private organizations have done and their beliefs. Good points. IMO, an organization that builds character would teach "do the right thing" and an organization that builds leaders would lead by example and show how to right the wrongs. Yes, even private organizations can change, we once did not allow females as scout leaders. Now if those troop adult leaders and parents who thought this was wrong took action, formed a new troop with a fairer charter organization, and asked Ms. Steele to be COR ...could be a win-win. My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Agreed, but I think SCOUTing needs more SCOUTs. I would not be surprised that on any given day, there are more boys logged into X-box Live than the total BSA membership. Add PS3, Facebook games,...and I'm certain of it. Attract them with common interests - chess, Halo, robotics, paintball, laser-tag,... and then introduce them to the outdoor adventures and other fun. One example, some "distinguished" X-box game snipers thought Rifle Shooting would be lame ...okay look at your sight picture. Is everything in focus - front sight and target? No, ain't that something. Oh, other things, here in the real world, we need breathing control and trigger squeeze, we can run out of ammo, have misfires, windage,... better your game and get real. Need to fish where the fish are and then use the right bait...say I learned that in Fishing merit badge My $0.02 (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Overdue. Back in the day, a young Bobby Fischer wrote a chess column for Boys Life. Maybe this will be the first of a series of gaming merit badges - Civilization, Call of Duty,..., Parcheesi My $0.01

The Passing Of An American Hero, Aug 12,2011 by Waring Hills "Today I was saddened to learn of the death of Colonel Charles Murray, United States Army (Retired). Here is a reposting of a story I did about him and scouting drawn from his World War II experiences a few years ago. Its a two-part story and I hope you enjoy itit illustrates the character and strength of our armed forcesa free people led by free men with outstanding training and educationbut most of allgood men. Charles Murray was an Eagle Scout and the purpose of scouting is not to make boys into presidents, governors, CEOs or successful menits purpose is just to make good Men. Charles Chuck Murray who grew up in Wilmington, NC, was not only a successful Army officer and Medal of Honor recipienthe was a good man..." http://cv10navalaviator.wordpress.com/2011/08/12/the-passing-of-an-american-hero/ (Wiki)For his WW2 service, he also received three Silver Stars, two Bronze Stars with Valor device, a Purple Heart, and the Combat Infantryman Badge. He also served in the Korean and Vietnam wars. "...the purpose of scouting is not to make boys into presidents, governors, CEOs or successful menits purpose is just to make good Men." Scout salute.

Here's a hybrid community strip, council patch, unit number in retro red. http://www.troop111.org/patch.html