RememberSchiff

Good point. He should have worded it more accurately. Their youth-protection policy is 1. Contact Child Protection Authority 2. Contact Scouts Canada ... scouts.cs/ca/youth-protection

Engineer 61, Our fellow scouters to the north face the same problem but their solution focuses on the good of their scouts past and present as opposed to the good of corporate. Please read Scouts Canada Chief Commissioner and Chair of the Board of Governors, Steve Kent 2+ page letter to all. http://www.scouts.ca/sites/default/files/Youth-Protection-Update-Feb13.pdf I will include the last part here "Scouts Canada, and I personally, have committed to this course of honesty and open transparency. We know it will ensure the strength and vitality of our organization for the future. Our focus is dedicated to nurturing the skills and abilities of young people, and there is nothing more important to Scouts Canada than the wellbeing of the children and youth with whom we work so closely and whose lives we aspire to influence for the better. It is a tremendous privilege, and an enormous responsibility, and each of our volunteer leaders takes it very seriously and cares about it very deeply on a personal level." Thank you once again for your support. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly if you have questions or concerns. " He includes his phone number and e-mail address!!! Maybe Scouts Canada has no lawyers or they are still Scout. They may have found a better scout-like solution that the Catholic Church and BSA did not. Consider the Scout first! My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Sounds good, but I think it is more complex. I think there's an ego factor sometimes expressed "these are different times", "we have a different leadership team (making the same decision)" that needs to be overcome. I wonder if/how C.S. Lewis would have expanded this thought post JFK, his cabinet of "The Best and the Brightest", and the Vietnam War. And that's just one example of well-educated, well-traveled, experienced people repeating the mistakes of history. Oddly he and JFK died on the same day. My $0.01

Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Donna Geck vacated her order this week, pending a March 21 mediation session between lawyers for BSA and plaintiff . She set a new date of May 9 for the BSA to produce the "perversion files", which are not to be disclosed to the public. Adult troop leader Al Stein pleaded no contest to felony child endangerment in 2009 and was sentenced to a two year prison term. He was paroled early. Some of us are keeping an eye on Scouts Canada approach, where they have released their "perversion files" for independent review (KPMG will make public their report later this year) and allowed victims (scouts) to talk post settlement as part of their healing process. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Mine is three words, but I can see it expressed in 4 or 5. DSP Some might focus on a particular approach for the above like "Get out of the way and let boys lead.", "All your scouts earn First Class", ...but I hope we are all pretty much on the same page or is it pages now.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

My older (~16yo+) scouts and their parents listened to the council Jambo pitch $2k plus another uniform plus... and figured their money could be better spent a local adventure trek $500-$600 or $0 get a summer job instead 40hr drivers ed $850 Driver license $30 SAT test, subject tests $50-200 6 college applications $300-450 ------------ $1230(no trek) - $1730(min) - $2130(max) per scout Seems once the total activity cost is above $800 (two weeks local scout camp?), family economic reality takes over. Maybe it would be an easier sell with 13-14 year olds, but that group wanted merit badge summer camp Their $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Give the units with an absentee COR the right to select another representative to attend and vote at district and council meetings. My $0.02

Glad you and your scouts had a great time. Your scouts might enjoy watching "National Treasure" (the first movie). My $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

"This years event, because of the momentous anniversary, brought more scouts (4000!)than ever to the park. This year the troop that traveled the farthest distance came from Texas . http://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2012/02/19/king_of_prussia_courier/news/doc4f41ab6bc23b9994264658.txt?viewmode=default Well done.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

"(Scouts Canada) Chief Commissioner Steve Kent said a third-party (KPMG) review of records relating to abuse has turned up a number of cases in which it is unclear if police were notified. He said those cases are now being referred to authorities." (Scouts Canada is now voluntarily turning over their files which a year ago supposedly did not exist!) Im ashamed these things happened in our organization ... but Im definitely concerned and as motivated as anyone to do things right at this point, Chief Commissioner Steve Kent said Friday. The public release of KPMG's review has been pushed back to late 2012. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1133420--scouts-canada-some-allegations-of-sex-abuse-may-not-have-been-reported-to-police http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/americas/scouts-canada-says-some-allegations-of-sex-abuse-may-not-have-been-reported-to-police/2012/02/17/gIQAKIQPKR_story.html(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Beavah, thanks for the explanation. Should be interesting when the Boys from National take me and my scouts to court for copying old Fieldbook and Boy's Life material.

I guess I have not explained the situation well, so I'll drop it as I have already distracted too much from this thread. Sorry for the confusion.

The copyright owner is the BSA and aren't we all BSA? If the BSA is no longer selling the published material, why can't the rest of BSA make copies (no $ involved) to distribute among ...BSA?(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Good research shortridge. I missed that Pappydaddy wanted to copy the whole Fieldbook. I don't see a fair use problem with a chapter or two or three. What I cannot understand is how there can be any "copyright infringement" of no longer published Boy Scout literature among Boy Scouts/Scouters where no money was involved? Does anyone know of any copyright infringement suit by the BSA against a Scouter where no profit was involved? Patches, t-shirts, no longer published literature? My $0.01

So are we dinosaurs???? No, the dinosaurs were not forgotten. We will be, just as Green Bar Bill is now.

I am going to bet the average age is 50+. Thanks for scoring me above "average" Scout manual content follows National program direction. I predict the word "camping" will soon be replaced by "Outdoor Experience" or "High Tech Trek Adventure" with less camping and traditional scoutcraft. My $0.02 Copyright not a problem - Fair use Section 107 "1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes" http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Boy Scout membership up, the rest down. 2010 2011 1,601,994 1,583,166 Cub Scouting 898,852 909,576 Boy Scouting and Varsity Scouting 238,846 231,127 Venturing and Sea Scouting 664,063 511,359 Learning for Life 113,062 112,783 Explorers http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/sitecore/content/RTN/RTN2010.aspx

http://www.governor.wv.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/Pages/GovernorTomblinIssuesExecutiveOrderDesignatingPrincipalAgencytoCoordinatePlanningandResponseattheSummit.aspx "CHARLESTON, W.Va. Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin today issued an executive order designating the West Virginia Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management (WVDHSEM) as the principal agency to coordinate all state agency planning and response for activities and events of the Boy Scouts of America at The Summit: Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve and the 2013 National Scout Jamboree. In choosing the New River Gorge region of West Virginia as the permanent home of the National Scout Jamboree, the Boy Scouts of America continue to demonstrate its ongoing confidence in our state, said Gov. Tomblin. I have issued Executive Order No. 1-12 because I believe that by uniting our efforts now we will ensure the safety and efficiency of the events and activities at The Summit. The Jamboree will provide lasting economic and educational opportunities to our young people, our citizens and our state. "The executive order is another example of the continued support Governor Tomblin and state of West Virginia have provided to the BSA in order to make our efforts at the Summit Bechtel Reserve a lasting success," said Alf Tuggle, Assistant Chief Scout Executive, Boy Scouts of America. The order also designates the Director of the WVDHSEM serve as the sole liaison to the Governor for planning and coordination and will direct and manage all details of events sponsored by, or related to, the Boy Scouts of America which take place in West Virginia and which require state-related assistance. I want to thank Governor Tomblin for showing his support and confidence in the team he has assembled who are working diligently to make sure that the Scouts, their leaders, families and visitors to West Virginia have a safe and enjoyable experience at the National Jamboree, said Jimmy Gianato, Director of WVDHSEM. This planning team is composed of some of the finest individuals in the world and they have tremendous experience in working on these types of events. Working collaboratively, we can make sure that this event will be outstanding and showcase the Spirit and Pride of West Virginia. The Director will work with appropriate federal agencies to secure relevant security designations and support for events such as the upcoming National Scout Jamboree. The order also requires the WVDHSEM to provide the Governor with a financial impact statement outlining the needs of the agency to ensure a successful event." For the executive order complete with all "whereas's" http://www.governor.wv.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/Documents/2012.02.10%20Executive%20Order%20No.%201-12.pdf

Not interested in starting a rumor mill, just a heads up. Tomorrow, Friday Feb 10, 3:30pm CHARLESTON, W.Va. -Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin, joined by Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management Director Jimmy Gianato, West Virginia National Guard Adjutant General James A. Hoyer, and Boy Scouts of America Assistant Chief Scout Executive Alf Tuggle, will hold a press conference at the Glen Jean Armory to discuss the issuance of Executive Order No. 1-12 relating to the Boy Scouts of America's National Jamboree." http://www.wv.gov/news/Pages/GovernortoHoldPressConferenceRegardingExecutiveOrderNo1-12RelatingtoTheSummitBechtelFamilyNationalScoutReserve.aspx

A couple of years ago, Choicepoint was acquired by LexisNexis who subsequently merged data bases . Both companies had serious data security breaches prior to merging. My understanding is that National/Council obtains a "consumer reports" from LexisNexis. LexisNexis provides "personal information reports" (their term) covering insurance, mortgage information, employment, resident history, liens, lawsuits, healthcare, credit history, divorce, motor vehicle ...far more than "consumer information". What parts the BSA uses is unknown, but we signed away permission on the adult membership form. https://personalreports.lexisnexis.com/ My $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

FUD = fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Fear of loosing camp accreditation, uncertainty of camp attendance fee levels or council funding, and then doubt anything can be done except to raise camp fees or ...sell camp. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Look for those camp fees to go UP if not this year then 2013 when FUD takes hold "all BSA camping programs must be sustainable in order to meet the requirements for accreditation. Sustainability is defined in the camp standards as meeting one of the following criteria in 4 of the last 5 years: 1. The camping program adds net revenues to the council, and the council is funding depreciation (Standard for Gold Accreditation). 2. The camping program adds net revenues to the council, and the council is not funding depreciation (Standard for Silver Accreditation). 3. The camping program receives a limited subsidy from the gross revenues of the council, is not forecast to increase, and the council budget is in surplus and forecast to remain in surplus for the next five years; or The camping program receives a greater subsidy from the gross revenues of the council, the amount of the subsidy is stable or trending downward, the council does not exhibit an unusually low ratio of unit serving executives to total available youth, and the council budget is in surplus and forecast to remain in surplus for the next five years. (Minimum standard for accreditation)." Ran across "sustainability" mentioned in this news story about an Iowan scout camp http://www.kwwl.com/story/16681225/boy-scouts-face-financial-challenges and then the requirements at the Winnebago Council website. http://www.winnebagobsa.org/nvtf/ http://www.winnebagobsa.org/announcements/CampingProgramsNewVisionTaskForceAppointed.pdf IMO, much ado (taskforces, 10year, 20 year visions, sustainability!) when what we are talking about is keeping the camps and councils in the black and hopefully, providing an adventurous outdoor program which scouts and their families can afford. Might want to look at membership, which for this council in 1971 was 12,000 scouts and is now 3,800. Also wonder if the four National high-adventure camps will meet the above sustainability requirement. My $0.01 for rambling (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Hah, so can we burn down the %#$@% camp stores with their Snicker's and Ben & Jerry's? These days what I would want in facilities is likely a small subset of what is legally required by local/state/federal for a summer resident camp and there most of the expenses lie, well except the expenses for those that want WIFI, battery charging outlets, presentation theatres, WB classrooms, camp mess hall, Starbucks kiosk, picnic tables, camp site pavillon, camp store,... For my scouts this will do Water/toilet/shower/trail map/camp sites/swimming/boats/archery/rifle range/gathering campfire area. Beyond that depends on program and staff, e.g., if a blacksmithing program was desired and good instructors were at the ready, I can see adding a workshop and equipment. My $0.02 - $0.02 for unscoutlike language(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

With membership numbers and bookings down, some councils have sold their scout camp and rented it back for 1-4 summer weeks. And while it probably saves on council expenditures, I believe a council looses far more on donations without a camp. Also a "rented camp" can create problems with camp personnel (use the existing camp staff vs. bringing in some of us during those weeks) and rules (ours vs theirs). Most units need a scout camp for their scouts. My $0.02,

U.S. Postal Service uniforms are made in U.S.A. Union contract requirement as I recall.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)