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@Oldscout448 Godspeed. And, if you fall in with anyone fielding a program for youth in a way that you can get behind, let us know.

The found no solution. They just ignored the rules. We have discussed "border jumping" for advancement before. And, the problem would still remains that while advancing in a comparable program overseas, the scout was not a boy and therefore would not qualify to begin Boy Scout Rank until this year. The scout could wear any distinguished medals that the foriegn association awarded. She could even wear venturing medals. Regardless of the fairness of the thing, her rank is based strictly on requirements completed this year ... patch notwithstanding.

I think @Eagle94-A1, that speaks against the method. Not against hole punches in general. However, I agree that these hats are not amenable to modifications. Holes in the brim = water straight under your collar on a rainy day. @PinkPajamas, maybe some advice from National Park Service rangers might help. I have seen some pictures of rangers with their chin strap in back, and their bun/ponytail above that and below the brim. Any female rangers out there with other advice?

Our soccer girls were vicious competitors. (Half my job as crew advisor was talking them out of wanting to finish the season with a red card.) But they also conditioned in the off-season with the boys, so that may have influenced their attitude. That said, I tried to pitch awards and recognition to the lot -- because many weren't pursuing a GS award -- and it fell on deaf ears. The same went for the boys who weren't already scouts. There is a down-side to that lack of interest. It translates into a lack of commitment to organizing activities. But, it doesn't help when parents "take up the slack" and do the organization on the kids' behalf. I mean, the unit has fun -- for a while -- but leadership deficits go unnoticed. You can't develop if you don't know what you're lacking.

Organizations', plural: decades of GS/USA leaders who thought they knew what was best for all girls (and it wasn't Golden Eaglet or First Class) and BSA leaders who thought their girl-facing counterparts were right. That all leadership training (detached from the outdoors and patriotism) was leadership training and the youth would never know the difference. Bill Hillcourt pulled BSA away from that brink, but their was nobody to do the same for GS/USA. Thus was generated the vacuum that parents and empathetic scouters (and girls themselves) asked us to fill. But what I find quite surprising in the two Scouts BSA girl troops who I've met: the rush to Eagle is not that great. They just want to hike and camp and maybe fish. They want the chance to be nationally recognized, but I don't think any of them have earned 1st class yet. The leaders aren't high-speed low-drag people. They just got sick of the "tailored for girls" organization telling them "no, just sell those cookies" at every turn.

Every group of boys is different. If I were you, I would focus mentoring time on your older scouts. What you and the ASMs want to do is encourage the SPL, PL's, and TG's, etc ... to be doing things for themselves. Sometimes adults take things for granted. But you have it fresh in your memory how difficult is was to do certain things. (E.g., staying organized, not giving up when you burnt breakfast, etc ...) If you can help the older scouts see how a younger scout might need help in those "mind over matter" kinds of things, you'll go a long way. The YP stinks. (Or, specifically, all of those adults who didn't regard a youth's protection stink for making the rest of our lives harder.) But use it to your advantage to create a little space and objectivity. Meanwhile, use your time serving the troop as an opportunity to get to know the other adults. Take advantage of the campfire to bring up challenges your facing and get their ideas. If the boys see that you leaning on other people for advice, they might be more willing to talk to a caring adult before things in their life start to go south.

Welcome! And thanks in advance for all you do for the youth.

It's not to hard to infer that if we've attracted 10K+ girls, then we've attracted 5K or fewer boys -- zero gains in boys if @malraux is correct. What's important in all this is the number of transfers from LDS units. If there haven't been many, then staying even represents a lot of new recruitment/crossover of boys.

My reply (well, one of them) when this was discussed on Bryan's blog https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/02/24/eagle-scout-statistics-for-2015/: The more useful stat that is less biased by "migration" of boys in and out of the candidate pool is the cumulative # of eagles over the rate of scouts ever registered. I calculated that statistic with centennial numbers: 3.9% of those who were ever registered as boy scouts obtained Eagle. This is what the general public perceives. They know lots of dads and grandads who were scouts. but not many who were Eagles. Up until the 90's, this number hewed closer to 2%. Then declining membership numbers and unrelenting increases in numbers of Eagle scouts began to add more to the numerator than to the denominator. So, what's happened, IMHO is that BSA and NESA have not promoted being a first class scout. They have oversold the importance of making Eagle, and scouts who only had it in them to make first class never felt welcome. That's the real harm in high-speed low-drag advancement. It makes first class sound easy. It's not if you are afraid of the lake and that's where you want to swim your 100 yards, or you read "complete" an orienteering course as find 100% of Mr. Q's fiendish controls, or memorize all of the verses of the Star Spangled banner, or whatever it is you think you need to overcome. And if leaders sign off "good 'nuff" on too many requirements, the scout will feel patronized and move on to something outside of scouting that he thinks is truly "next level:" This comment from Bryan's forums is very telling (https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/forums/topic/trail-first-class/#post-114117): In no universe should any scout who makes it to 1st Class, even if it takes him 7 years, feel like a failure.

It's really a fine line. Same troop averaging around 20-30 scouts: Son #1, he and several of his buddies made eagle. It seemed like his entire den, but I pointed out, much to the den mom's chagrin, about half of the boys from her den did not stay in the troop. Still, 50-60% is a high rate. A few years later, one den mom did have all of her Webelos earn eagle. There were so many ECoH's over about three years that the SM couldn't attend them all (we took them in shifts)! It was actually getting kind of annoying because a lot of them were on Saturdays/Sundays and coupled with graduation parties, and I missed some good camping opportunities. A few years later, we were back down to about 25% of each class yielding Eagle. Son #2 was the only one from his den. Several of his younger buddies (he tended to clique with underclassmen) aged out happily at star or life rank. Now we have a cardre of 16-17 year old life who are lining up projects and wrapping up MBs so the raw numbers will bump up. But, we have a bit of attrition, so the rate after counting those boys will still be 10%. Really, the program didn't change all that much. It's just that some years, for example, when we took boys skeet shooting, many followed up with their counselor. Other years, we could do a similar fun activity, and nobody would use it as a springboard to earn a related MB. Or, a scout would come to camp and re-take a MB he did last year because he thought it was cool. Do that enough, and you might not make rank. But in failing to make rank, you'll have racked up some good memories!

@mrkstvns, 12+ eagles awarded/year out of a roster of 90+ is not all that surprising. A troop's rate will wax an wane. This troop's is on it's high side. More boys will join, they will take their seniors' progress for granted, and many of them will have slower advancement. The trick will be making sure those boys always feel welcome even if they aren't advancing.

The other thread made me wonder ... has anybody had scouts working on Personal Fitness MB soon after joining? The exercise log for that could count for trail to first class. I could see encouraging it if you have a newly-joined older scout who is interested in athletic training or wants to fill a slot in an upcoming high-adventure trip. You need that scout to be in the best shape possible by summer. I recall that Daughter was a much stronger swimmer than any of her boat mates at Seabase Bahamas, this limited where and how long she could snorkel. In retrospect, I would have pressed the crew to get pool memberships and commit to a fitness regimen. Had they been eligible for Eagle, I would have used the required MB as motivation. They would have all probably achieved 1st class by that time, so overlapping timetables wouldn't be an issue. But I could imagine that if I had a scout who needed to bone up physically now and earn 1st class sooner rather than later, I'd seriously consider counting the MB work for the lower ranks as well. If the high adventure is 24 weeks away, and the scout has a couple of years, I'd suggest logging the 1st 12 weeks for the T2F requirements and the log for the next 12 weeks for the MB. After the adventure, there might be some new scouts coming in, and this scout will have had a solid personal experience with which he/she can encourage the newbies.

In general, I would rather a qualifying Webelo cross over when he wants to. There might be something in the pack he/she wants to do. Or, maybe he/she hasn't settled on a troop yet. Or, maybe he/she wants to stick with his buddies. Our pack does have a single crossover at the Blue-and-Gold banquet. That's nice because the scouts can plan to attend. But, we now have enough older scouts with various free schedules that at least one of them could free up time to welcome an "off schedule" crossover.

I've seen the first string of varsity football players from a championship team crumple in the third quarter in less heat. My guess is they all caught the same bug while training, or were up late partying the night before, or they could have had a decent meal with tainted milk the morning of. The EMTs were busy that day. Point is, before game time, there was no way of knowing the boys' condition. Personally, I once hit a wall at about this age on a land navigation course. Between the more distant markers, I called for a break under some shade. I opened my eyes a little later, and asked my buddy how long I'd been out. "A while." My buddies gave up the course, got me back to campsite, put me in a hammock, and kept one eye on me while they made soup. Those electrolytes and a soak in a nearby stream got me back to normal. It was not a particularly hot day. Certainly not arid. But the big advantage was we could get out of the sun. Sheltering in place at the first onset of symptoms, then dividing the group so that half could get rescue might have made the difference. But that would depend on their ability to find/create shade. I'm sure it's a question these scouts and scouters will be pondering for the rest of their lives.

My garage borrows poly tarp from the camping gear.

13 activities in three months? Packed? We knocked out about 12 in as many months. It just depends on who needs to do service projects. Let's see a throw-down!!!! @SSF's tenderfoot scouts vs. @willray's!

Actually, we do. A round oval. I mean really, if the scout took 4 years to earn the patch and we saw his/her picture bragging about it, have we any more evidence that he/she did it legitimately?

Caveat: I've only personally met girls who were on their way to becoming first class (in both concept and patch) at a more average pace, and their leaders were the antithesis of the "high-speed low-drag" types that give most of us scouters headaches. My guess is that most of the girls who achieve First Class this month are 16+ year-olds doing so legitimately. Like my boys of the same age who noticed the shortcomings of other scouts (usually boys they met at summer camp, or on ordeal, or some other event), I tell them to invite those scouts to whatever skill challenge they are planning in the next month. It doesn't even have to be a formal competition. It could be building a bridge, setting up a safe swim area, raising flags at a local ball game, conditioning for a hike, etc ... Basically, if they have the patch, invite them to act like it. If they weren't first class (patch notwithstanding) before, they will be it soon enough.

The girl whose PL made her clock 92 days of fitness instantly has more pride in herself than some girl whose PL let that one slide. Odds are she'll be more fit. So if she crosses a scout who has shorted her time, all she has to do is say, "Drop and give 20 push-ups, then watch me double it." Same goes for knots, navigation, swimming, etc ...

You know what's hard for morale? Girls finding out that you unnecessarily gave them a pass. What's good for morale? Girls knowing you won't skimp on requirements -- theirs or yours.

I find that pace is fairly typical for scouts who join at an older age. Also, in my troop, Feb-May is a fairly active time of year. Moreover, if the scout is also a venturer -- especially an officer -- or camp staff she has connections to other crews and troops. Chances are, she lined up activities for her troop at an informal planning meeting in December. If a kid isn't playing basketball they can do a lot in terms of advancement. But, if they are student athletes, they should be keeping exercise records. Our off-season soccer included weight training and it was all that I could do, for consecutive years, to keep from screaming at Son #2, "Why aren't you taking Personal Fitness?!" Ignorance is the biggest challenge. Yesterday I talked to a scout mom who was asking if her boy could get signed off on Lifesaving at summer camp because he was getting his ARC guard certification. I strongly encouraged him to get a blue card from the SM and meet with a counselor in the district ASAP. (One of the ASM's was fiddling with his labtop, so I asked if he could E-mail the family our district's counselor list for that badge.) I basically told him the last thing he wants to do is spend an hour a day at camp listening to someone with the same training as him lecture him on stuff that he just learned. If scouts think that there is no summer camp from which advancement will be spoon-fed, they could make rank quickly.

I assure you these were not perfect scouts. The patrol leader was learning that he had a very short fuse and his patrol had attention deficits. They didn't accomplish all of the goals they wanted to before summer camp. But ... when he was really stuck, he came to me and I either coached him through it or got him the help he needed. Generally, I helped him focus his energy on the scouts who were gun-ho and he let the rest of his patrol keep up. Summer camp and after, they pulled themselves together better and had an enjoyable time. I found that time is the key ingredient. If we have terribly flawed scouts devoting time to one another, enduring a crappy meal because of a terribly planned menu -- but at least not as vile as what they had on the previous outing ... then we have scouts who go on to win camporees, enjoy the back-country, and overcome calamity. If you have an SPL who hasn't learned to mentor and JASMs and Instructors who haven't been-there-done-that to support PLs, then maybe you need to have an adult mentor for every patrol. So, maybe when I was put on to advise a patrol, we were in that situation. But, I found that the bare minimum of coaching from me did a lot of good.

I was assigned to advise a patrol once. I told the PL that I'd be over in the opposite side of the building, he could come talk to me if he had problems. I think he might have once.

The goal is to work himself out of a job! My particular goal has been to increase the confidence of younger scouts from the troop who we merged with. I hate to say it, but after the merger, my older scouts weren't the best SPL/ASPL The scouts before them (who, pre-merger, comprised a much smaller and more tight-knit group) made it look easy. Not as much needed to be communicated, so the next-in-line didn't see role models of good communicators. Meanwhile, the new CC (bless his heart) was super-organized and didn't have a great vision of how to let scouts take up the tasks that he was so good at doing. Add to that a lot of changing of SM's back-and-forth, and it was really hard for SPL/ASPL's to find their place. I then started feeding the boys leaders' handbooks and becoming their cheerleader ... not so much to them, but to the committee. To do this successfully, I needed to have an ear on the PLC so I could tell the adults how much I've been hearing good thing from this batch of leaders. We now have a cadre of boys who are now pretty forthright with the outgoing and incoming SMs about what they'd like (and not like) to accomplish. It seems to me that the new SM is capable of having good working relationships with the current SPL and any of the boys likely to be elected as SPL. I am very hesitant to have other ASM's sit on PLC's for training purposes. There's a fine line between cheering for scouts and speaking for scouts. I cross it regularly enough that I don't want add other adults to the mix. On the other hand, if the ASM is very likely to be the next SM, maybe a well-oiled PLC would like him/her to see the ropes before the SM relinquishes his position.

There is a reason why the venturing uniform didn't come with standard-issue pants. Can't blame her for hating the switchbacks. I wish I had a definite go-to, but I'm afraid you'll have to browse lots of stores before you'll find something that comes close. I got grey cargo shorts for myself, and they worked well. Could never find a second pair. IMHO, a really good plan B is to find poly-cotton slacks that fit, cut them off, and and use the legs to sew pockets and tool loops to suit. Good luck!