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@RememberSchiff we all know the whole point of the application and the workbook is to make life easier for adults. If we wanted to make it a better experience for the scout, these would be pages in his handbook, which he would fill out and submit personally, or ... take pictures of and send to council. They could also be fields in Scoutbook ... the whole thing (spare us the pictures) could be plain text.

No joke. A friend was planning a mom's weekend away. They hiked into their site and before they finished setting up their tent, a bear lumbered in and made straight for the smellables which were sealed in a dry bag. They didn't even have a chance to get it out of their packs, he did that for them after tearing everything apart because - well, he couldn't smell exactly where the food was. There's no way he tracked them to their sight. He probably didn't even smell the food! He just knew to make for a campsite along a trail as soon as he heard weekend cars and motorcycles winding up the valley. Dinner was being delivered! If he waited too long it would be tucked up and away.

We had an SM blow his F150 engine pulling our trailer off a mountain then punching it on the interstate. So wear and tear on a vehicle is no joke.

@dedkad, our patrol's fondue was a weekend camp activity. We never considered doing it at summer camp because by the middle sessions the critters were all too familiar with boys and the snacks that they snuck in.

Seabase FL has a luau for it's closing ceremony. An old submersible doubles as a playground. At Seabase Bahama's as a crew drove to the airport after a week's adventure, Captain Steve (RIP) would wave his hands over his head crossing and I crossing them. It was signal for snorklers to "come back to the boat."

My adult kids are all about the Venmo. Not sure how it would help a club or unit.

The other thread about the law reminded me of an online reference regarding the evolution of the aims and methods over time: http://www.inquiry.net/adult/methods/index.htm I thought there was a way we could grid out these buggers in the current forum software, but I'll have to dig a little.

'Shiff's reference is a nice matrix of the points as they evolved over the years. Also on that site: BP's Law and Oath with investiture ceremonies. http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/law.htm

If it is anything like the Eagle project workbook, then no. If it is a plain-old-asci standard (e.g. .XML), then yes. The scout could log on and download his/her own pre-filled app. In fact, as soon as the last req is completed and logged by the unit, an E-mail with a pre-filled application could be sent to the scout.

I agree that this phenomenon is firstly girls trying to look acceptable to other girls. Being able to turn boys' heads is secondary. It's almost universal. Once my crew (all boys at the time) visited a Christian commune for a holiday open-house, the community's women and girls dressed similarly. Dresses and head covering had the same modest cut, but colors varied (think 18th century with lots of greys, blues, tans, and purples). One of my leaders asked his host about the "uniforms". The host said, "We leave that to the women. None of us guys would dare touch on that topic." Guys do the same thing, but it seems to a lesser degree. For example, my buddies ribbed me when I was getting too tall for my jeans. It never crossed my mind that I should ask my mom for a new wardrobe. I figured if they weren't picking on me for that they'd pick on my for my purple converse all-stars. (The only outfit for which I never got smack from the guys, BTW, was when I would wear my scout uniform to school.) But more importantly, I never felt "on the outs" with the guys because of how I dressed. Same for my other buddy who always dressed sharp. I don't think it was the same for girls. So any discussion, IMHO, needs to recognize that there is a psychological phenomenon among women upon which industry capitalizes, and "civic action" on a girls' part could involve standing up for her school's dress code and, for example, asking stores to stock fashion that conforms to it.

I think they kind of cluster together, but this is just me. Like @SSScout said, they are tuned to the American ear of a century ago. Trustworthy, Loyal, and Helpful are for citizenship Friendly, Courteous, and Kind are interpersonal Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty speak to being mentally awake Brave, Clean, and Reverent speak to physical strength and moral rectitud. I don't know if there is any intent in the order, but it seems that I do see them appear in boys on a deeper-than-surface level in roughly that sequence.

Far be it from me to tell GS/USA what issues its girls and parents should address. It may be that this issue is confounding lots of GS Juniors, so their moms invited discussion. I'm certain some girls earned GS awards for tackling this issue in their school. So, maybe the organization provided helps to parents in similar situations -- suggesting ways that this could be a skills-acquisition moment. I've seen Bryan's blog write up similar topics on behalf of BSA and invite lots of discussion. But, I'm puzzled as to why someone payed for it to appear as a sponsored link on FB. Maybe GS/USA thinks that this was the kind of thing that would motivate others to follow its other posts? Maybe they just wanted to generate buzz ... good or bad? I guess, given that I posted here, they at least accomplished that.

We had to deal with this as parents. Femurs grew, skirt didn't. The principle was doing his best to handle things discretely. Even so Mrs. Q took umbrage. Daughter wasn't offended, but also didn't think she had much agency in the situation. So, I understand the emotion. I just want to hear from an organization who is partnering with me recognize that my family (including children) might be in favor of their school's dress code -- and share advice on how I may help my daughter enter into this dialogue. With youth, always promote both civic action and servant leadership. Middle school kids often see things going on in a community that other folks miss. Their playground/pool might be impacted by budget cuts. There might be a dangerous intersection on the way to school. Or, a newly elected public official might need to know the issues important to youth.

Not sure why, but this sponsored link kept popping up on my FB wall: Your Daughter vs. Her School Dress Code What I find interesting: Someone at GS/USA thinks this issue can be used to promote their brand. Appealing school restrictions on students is deemed a "civic action", but appealing the fashion industry's body-shaming arms race is not even a suggestion. At some point, any of us in BSA who've worked with young women come across this issue with our youth. In venturing, this is great fodder for ethical controversies. But, it's not something where I would tell parents that my advice is the reason they should trust their girls' personal growth to me. More importantly, if I were to present parent-facing material, I would present the multiple viewpoints of youths (both girls and boys) on the matter.

This is the kind of family you want to come back to when your scouts start wanting to earn merit badges. Does the father or mother have a job or hobby that would allow them to serve as a MB counselor, or maybe they can comprise your committee? Your pitch would be "You asked me if I would be around for your boy. Now I'm asking, will you be around for our scouts?"

Welcome! And thanks for all you do for the youth!

@scoutmaster759, welcome to the forums and thanks in advance all you'll do for the youth.

Really? A sixteen year old can earn two or three MBs a month, meet the caring adults in her community at her convenience, use some of those learning experiences to enhance the life of her patrol and troop, be in control of her own destiny, have all the badges she needs plus a few for insta-palms by year's end ... and you think "extra summer camps" is a good idea? That's not being prepared. What if she can't go to more than one BSA camp? What if she goes, and hates it because all she has is MB classes that she doesn't care about. What if she goes and likes only one MB because that camp is ansolute best at teaching it and only wants to take that one again and again and again. What if she goes, and your venturer tells her about a really awesome two-week super activity that a crew she knows is doing next year? And, this is really important: your new adults have more to offer through their jobs and hobbies than they realize. If you endorse some stranger's MB program over their ability to provide unique opportunities for your troop, you are giving a vote of no-confidence to the people who will be keeping your program afloat for years to come. This is not a hypothetical. I've made lots of plans with older teens ... all of them were extremely diverse ... none of them involved extra weeks as participants at summer camp. They didn't all end aging out with Eagle rank, but they all achieved the aims of scouting. If after week 1, this scout really likes summer camp, let her know about additional weeks she may attend. But, don't link that with advancement.

@Cburkhardt, I think any other scout's particular written plan could send your scouts down a very wrong path -- especially if it winds up clashing with their interests. These older teens can review the requirements and plan for themselves. The venturer, especially should by now be skilled at back-dating from a target date to schedule a series of steps towards completion of an adventure. Most camp staff have similar opportunities, plus they should know how blue cards work. Scout C is a wild card. You almost certainly need to listen carefully to her interests and have her start on an MB of interest to her with a counselor you trust. Then when she comes back with her first blue card, you will have data to let her know if she needs to pick up the pace to stay on track. For mature scouts, I always suggest that they be working on an elective and required MB every month. Most scouts this age would do well with personal management, personal fitness, and family life. Weekend campouts are a must if they want to earn Camping MB in 18 months. Really, they only need to attend one summer camp so they can rack up 6 camping nights. Everything else they need for advancement they should do on weekends or evenings with their troop, patrol, or their friends. Your next few SMCs will tell a whole lot more about where to direct them than any timetable that someone claims worked for their scouts.

First, nobody *needs* to earn Eagle, but it's great that you have three great teens who want to within the time allotted to them. you don't want to take anyone for granted, but I suspect the 16 year old starting fresh will need most of your attention. She simply doesn't know scouts and scouters well, so you're going to need to make sure she gets connected to your better merit badge counselors, that she understands the first class rank requirements, and respects whatever younger scout may be her PL or SPL. We have similar issues with boys who join in their late teens. Sometimes they have a buddy who will show them the ropes, but they are often much more in need of adult guidance. Girls A and B are treading new territory. They will need to work a balance between troop and college. For them, you will need to constantly ask if they are having fun. A younger mom with a big heart might be a good mentor. On the flip side, their college classmates might have some cool things to offer your troop. Keep challenging them to find was to build synergy between their schools and scouting. I think this is a great opportunity for these girls, but your number 1 priority is building 1st class scouts. It sounds like you have a good idea of who is well on their way. Like any scout, you need to listen and watch and at SMCs give them honest appraisals.

It seems that 200K girls ages 6 to 18 is reasonable over the next four years. A lot depends on on the young women currently being granted an extension to make rank. Will many be willing to become SM's/ASM's in undeserved areas? Or, will the bitterness of being a marginalized keep them from committing to scouting for decades? Of boys and parents with boys: Based on the last disposal of "cultural war baggage," BSA can expect another loss of 1/2 to 1 million male members over the same period. TL/USA will successfully serve 200K of those, LDS another 200K, and -- as long as grants are being doled out for climbing walls and Maker activities -- public schools and secular clubs will serve another 200K. The internet -- especially 5G and 6G -- will make it possible for the remaining 400K boys and girls who are interested to execute the patrol method (by some other name) absent any governing organization. BSA will remain the largest boy-serving organization, but, like England, it will not recoup its male membership for decades. To do so will require a sea-change in the maximum remuneration to abuse victims, a return to formal recognition of unchaperoned activities at appropriate ages, and a careful analysis of what is and is-not working in other scout organizations around the world.

@Onslow, your job is to assist the SM (it's on the patch). Telling him everything that he's missing is likely going to cause him to tune you out. So, any progress that you make on that front will be in little nudges. Pick one of those things to work on. Offer to provide it for the SM. Recently, I focused on 1) giving the SPL his leaders handbook and sharing with him some useful web links and 2) sitting in on weekly PLC meetings. (These are short meetings, mostly after action review.) Mostly, I'm a fly on the wall. BTW, I've found the ASM patrol advisor scheme to be a next to useless division of labor. It's better to train the SPL, APL, guides, and instructors on what to look for. When you have your own crew that can help, as VLSC overlaps with ILSC quite well.

Well, here's the problem with the Aims being more than just executive summaries of other literature ... if they are more than that, you will always be left scratching your head about how your program has to change every time BSA rolls out a different version. The addition of leadership is an example. But, let's consider an omission, by taking one item from @Treflienne's quote of B-P's list: "to replace Self with Service" Is that not an an aim? Or is implicitly under character? It certainly falls in most closely with my working definition of leadership, so for me the it's now implicitly more strongly in the Aims than before. But was it ever really out? If you had a scouter who said to every family of every scout "Our aim is to replace Self with Service," would he or she be less effective of a scouter than one who said "Our aim is character, personal fitness, and citizenship?" I don't think an ability to quote the three (or four) currently promoted buzzwords will be a deciding factor. I am glad that aims are separate from methods, because methods are what we have to do with our particular groups. It's nice to know that I don't have to sweat the patrol method with venturers, or that with scouts can be developing leadership whereas venturers should be exercising leadership. It's also nice to know that outdoors isn't a method of cub scouting, but family involvement and serving the community is. When methods change significantly, I think we need to know. I think the YPT hurdles are changing the ability to implement some methods, and that's very sad. On the other hand I'm not sure what harm YPT does the aims, it's not like "make the lads individually efficient" has been explicit for quite some time.

A "troop supply room" is definitely a painful way to handle gear. Take this as me not trying to tell you how to do your job, but how make your job work for both you and the troop's QM(s) ... Assign things to patrols, not troops. I understand the temptation to use "pink" vs. "blue", but that will last until you have a boy leader whose favorite color is pink and a girl leader whose favorite color is blue and they compare notes one evening after overhearing adults carping about stuff. Your QM must tag assets with something durable. (I think there's an old thread somewhere about how to do this with d/o's.) And those tags should reflect patrols. (E.g., Wolfs get gear on the alpha shelf with alpha tags, Cobras get beta, etc ... If a scout can make an assignment board for you, that would be gravy.) The QM is not to scavenge kits for his/her pet patrol. Such a QM would be dropped in a day by any PLC that I've known. If alpha patrol needs more than its allotment of d/o's, it can ask beta patrol for a loaner. If it comes back wet, it goes to beta patrol to clean and season. Which scout actually does that is between the two PL's, and if they don't resolve it, the PLC will. You could have one troop or five sharing a space. It doesn't matter. From a QM perspective the gear is managed by patrols. If he tells the SPL that the equipment room is disheveled, the SPL(s) arranges for the PLC to have a clean-up day. In that process, the QM goes over with the PLs how gear is inspected allocated and shelved. The result in our troop has been sets of patrol gear and bins of spare parts. All must be returned cleaned. Note that I didn't mention QM form troop 1 and QM from troop 2. I'm not against that sort of thing if the two QMs actually work well together. But more often then not there's only one scout in 50 who is really passionate about polished gear. Nobody wants that person in a tug-of-war in a small room with someone who isn't as rigorous. And I guess that's where the rubber hits the road for a linked troop. It's all fine and good making space for boys to develop in positions of responsibilities as easily as girls. But in real life, two librarians, two historians, two QMs, etc ... under the same roof could do more harm than good. (Two buglers? That's actually kind of nice.)

'schiff, I'm having a hard time finding your exact quote in the reference you cite. The closest I can find is three pages in ... More telling is what's missing in 21 pages of encouragement to commissioners: the word "Aims" the word "fitness" (note its absence in the quote above). I take the gist of this to mean that "attractive, effective program" sits beside the aims (by any other name), and that scouters should focus their day-to-day activities on those bells and whistles that "attract ... and provide the opportunity for [youth] to have fun." I personally disagree. I think youth are attracted to boots-on-the-ground adults who care if they grow up strong and good. In fact, the Aims could be two: "strong" and "good" and our scouters would be just as successful. But, if some marketer comes along and says "nobody's buying strong and good, the buzzword is leadership (or whatever the new buzzword is). I'll nod politely. And, if I never get the memo, I'll be as happy-go-lucky as @SSScout for mostly the reasons he describes.