qwazse

Sorry if my choice of the word "cynicism" was equated with faithlessness. There was a time when that wouldn't be the case. BP - ... Dark Ages, countless numbers of wars, and enslavement of entire cultures by so called "good Christians" ... OE-AE - ... the people who claimed to be Christians and missed the mark ... don't align with what a 'Christian' should be Your summary judgments and condescension are duly noted. Scripture (and experience) tells me none are "good", not one. I'll work from that lens and avoid delusions that my walk is any better. My point is, that the one and only thing that qualifies them as Christian was a firm belief in the resurrection from the dead -- not metaphorical dead, not post-modern zombie dead, but your garden-variety-more-certain-than-taxes-dead. So, no, you can't ever be a good Christian. You can only merely be one. Given that, you can have varieties of zeal, or charity, or nobility, or theological astuteness or any number of other strengths. And depending on how your collection of gifts mesh with the times, you may get the additional label of "good." But if history is any indication, generations from now will judge your "goodness" critically, and you'll be labeled divisive, naive, or dictatorial. (Hopefully we'll sort this all out when we also are resurrected and have an eternity to sit and talk things through with the sectarians, ascetics, and fundamentalists of old -- or of many years to come if the Rapture still waits.) Now, I've met folks in good conscience who could not bring themselves to believe in the resurrection. (In spite of someone like OE-AE laying it out fairly well for them.) But when in spite of this they try to hold on to the attribution of "Christian" because they don't want to look "bad", it comes off as very pathetic. Better that folks accept that they are non-Christian and simply work out being "good" until they nail down what they are putting their faith in. P.S. SScout - What would be the advantage of this being in a "Faith and Chaplaincy" forum? Is it messing things up being in "Issues and Politics"?

Youngest son and I heard the story on the radio. What a riot.

NJ - It's probably a good idea to copy those E-mails to whoever you are training as your backup committee chair! Do you save your E-mails? You could put them all in a folder and say to some third party "here. please review for YP purposes", and you've fulfilled the policy. Have you made the boys any safer? Not a wit. Why? Your correspondence is largely administrative the person getting them would tune them out. And, if you were a predator, you'd send lots of inocuous E-mail's with cc's until you've picked out the boy who is willing to correspond on more than "strictly business". You will set up a bogus cc that looks like the adult's in the troop so the boy doesn't suspect anything. Eventually once you were sure you had your mark you could remove the cc knowing he wouldn't rat you out. THEN you'd start being outright evil. All along, you would be sending hundreds of messages with cc's under the pretence of being accountable. You'd even encourage everyone else to do it because it helps you fly under the radar! In short, there's no way I could be sure my youth were safe from you if I did or did not get copied on your E-mails.

I know it's small consolation, but there seems to be no amount of telling beforehand. Venturing daughter on her first hike decided to not put socks becuase 1) we were rushed and 2) we were only hiking a mile into camp. Next morning: lessons in mole skin application before 6 more miles on the trail. Silly me for thinking I didn't need to check footgear on 14 year olds. As far as aftercare at home: evening soaks in epsom salts. Keep clean and dry before bed time. In the morning put guaze over any blisters that haven't popped. I generally prefer powder for AF.

t366e, Thanks for throwing out the question, and it's too bad you did not hear from some other SPLs/JASMs. (They'll probably all write in after your weekend's over.) There is a very fine line between "scrutinizing" and "making feel like a failure". An event can not go as planned and still be a success. And leadership always occurs. Sometimes it's just not the leadership you expect. So stay positive, keep an eye out for those youth who are showing some leadership and be generous with the "attaboy"s.

my #1: Tent optional. Try ripping the cieling out of your hotel room on a starry night -- and that would only work if you were on the top floor.

That said, I think it is a very healthy excersize to have the scout collect reference letters.

acco4 had two questions the first one was rhetorical, but that never stopped us before ... How did JASM get into the discussion of Eagle Scout = SPL? Sorry for the tangent, but I was just saying that if our troop doesn't require rank for JASM, so we don't limit SPL to the lower ranks. ... should a Scout be able to become an Eagle without serving, or at least attempting, to hold the office of SPL? Yes. And we should expect more from a librarian Life scout than a first-class scout. That's the rules, I didn't write them. (Although, I would prefer that 1st class scout spend a stint as a PL.) To follow up on MT's most recent post -- just for the sake of contrast: our troop doesn't consider JASM to be a privelage (beyond the implied "we really trust you"). We just assign it if a guy really wants to take charge of some aspect of troop life. The purpose for us is to put a title on the kid that answers a question like "why is this high school junior talking to my little Johnny about a 5 mile hike in the middle of winter?"

Z. I've heard of Falun Gong. More power to you. 1. I'll defer to other's about the religious award stuff. I know there's an alternative for faiths that don't have an awards program. I can't remember what it is. The bottom line is that you understand your faith at a level that would be expected of a thoughtful and caring adult adherant of your religion. 2. Whatever your religious leaders say is service to your faith would count. Bottom line: the time you spend should help foster the religous life of the folks around you. 3. Teaching definitely counts as leadership.

drmbear ... making a nice cup of coffee and something good to eat ... I'm with you on so many levels on that one! Besides, you'd be amazed at the crossovers who'll stop by and ask to help you roll grape-leaves, grind hummus, or chop parsley for tabbouleh salad. Or if cooking isn't your thing, just sit down with rope and spars and start making a camp gadget, or be in the axe yard knocking out tent pegs.

It makes tour plans a little easier to sign. Besides that, there are no benefits. It depends on the leadership style of the CC. He/she may be tempted to act as the SM. If the partner has enjoyed direct contact with boys before (e.g. Den Leader) he/she should consider being ASM. If she has a track record coordinating adult committees, then maybe CC will be a good fit. The advantage of the CC being from a different family is that you are forced to work at communication. There's no taking it for granted. This usually helps formally get the word out to the rest of the troop.

Quadruple ditto of what niel_b said. Most importantly, are the boys having fun? Do they feel welcome? Do the adult leaders feel like they are accomplishing things with the den? If there's no fun, if boys don't feel loved, if adults just see their kids "jumping through hoops", it's not a den. You can bring the adults together and say "we want our den back!"

BP, I have to take issue with your Being a Christian is NOT:'s 1) Being able to define the miracle of the Resurrection by the very limited understanding human knowledge can provide. Defined: A guy dies, violently and certainly. Then he's hiking with his homies, busting their crib, eating their fish, making campfires, and then hopping the clouds (without any COPE rigging). How much more sophistication do you need? 2) Defining your faith by what particular Denomination you are since all of them were created by humans and not God. Jesus showed us how to live our lives he did not create a religion, humans did. But that's what Christians do! (A quote from the Koran: "The Jews are in 77 sects, the Christians are 777.") I wish I could live my life bringing the best drinks to the wedding, clearing hospitals, and occasionally toppling some tables and beating people with ropes for selling stuff at church. I can't. So I'll just spin-off a new religion, just like my master did! 3) Dictating to others what and how to believe, thinking your way is the only true way. Orthodoxy: straight teaching. Heterodoxy: crooked teaching. Christian history is mainly about dictating such things! Okay, I'm being cynical here. Just a little. But the problem is we've equated being "Christian" with being "nice." And, even though many are, that's just not what defines the term. The worse effect: folks who are non-Christian feel like they are considered second class citizens. I guess that's the downside of taking over for the Roman Empire and salvaging what was left of it by throwing the West into the Dark Ages. That imperious attitude is hard to shake.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

Finally pulled the 2007 G2SS. This is a new section. (And my wife wonders why I keep this "old stuff".) The old stuff is still there (items were simply renumbered). I'm wondering if the new section comes from Personal Safety Awareness for Venturing meeting guide. It wasn't referenced in the 2007 G2SS. I'm not inclined to chase this down to its source. Since I don't have to sort out where anyone's sleeping (or whatever) tonight, I'm going to see if I can start staring at my eyelids before midnight.

This happens at every level of scouting. Older youth have 10+ calendars and no skill or ability to synchronize them. Credit your SPL for giving the ASPL the heads up more than a day in advance and move on. How much leadership does one need to get a bunch of boys to show cross-overs some skills? I guess you're going to find out! It's a little easier with the crew, but I ask myself "If I don't do __, what's the worst that can happen?" If the answer is someone getting hurt, I intervene. If the answer is my youth look shoddy and disorganized or the youth wind up improvising a game instead of nailing those requirements, I let it slide. I then explain to the youth leader next meeting: "We had a great time, you really missed out, but now these kids are short on X skill. Can you think of a way to help them catch up?"

So G2SS is referencing "National Venturing Committee" when it doesn't exist? That's rich. Anyway, the policy is no different than what we've been trained in VLST. I meant to compare with the wording in the old G2SS, but forgot to last night. FWIW - from my talks with camp rangers regarding venturers, the last place I need to worry about fornication is where they are *sleeping*. More coffee, please.

Even for those of us who are spitting distance from Summit, the calculus is a challenge. The last Jambo broke the bank for a couple of my boys who wanted to come sailing with our crew -- making it hard to fill our boats. Now my crew is invited to join the council contingent, but will we pass on a superactivity in 2012 so we can afford 2013? It's going to be a tough sell.

This depends on what your troop's vision is. If you believe candidates for Eagle are entitled to an opportunity to hold the "point position" in the troop, then you want to increase the odds of that happening by asking guys who earned their Eagle to sit out the elections. If you believe that Eagles should have opportunities to "man point" during their scouting career. Then you should invite them to throw their hat in the ring. If you believe that a position has more to do with what a boy can contribute, you'll minimize rank restrictions in making assignments. If you believe it has more to do with certain things a boy should be trying at certian ranks, you'll be make policies in that direction. E.g. if an ex-SPL is really good at organizing camp or planning events, I'd make him a JASM without any consideration of what's on his left pocket. It sounds like eagles are expected to do that in MT's troop, so they are de-facto JASM's once they meet age requirements. If I see a 17 y.o. Eagle who really gets a kick out of showing cross-overs the ropes, I'd call him a troop guide. MT's troop would say he's advanced beyond that. And if a guy says he wants to be JASM and winds up doing basic troop guide stuff I wont make him switch patches! (I honestly don't think MT's troop would either.) Since I don't like when people make extra rules for me, I discourage SM's from making extra rules for the boys. Sometimes, however, a nice orderly progression makes things run smoother. So sit and think about what suits your leadership best. Get the boys' o.k. Work your plan. If it annoys you, adjust.

pack - nice thoughts, but not necessarily Christian. As I mentioned in other threads, that "label" was applied by folks outside the faith for what at the time was considered a Jewish sect that had this obstinate persuasion that a certainly dead Christ came back to a certain vibrant physical life. Nothing metaphysical about it. If you believed in the resurrection of the body with Jesus as the first example (the down payment, if you will), someone was going to call you a Christian. If your belief involved some more nuanced abstraction, they'd call you something else. Not sure why anyone would want to bother trying to fiddle with the definition after 20 centuries.

POR (or lack thereof) may govern rank, but rank should not govern POR (or lack thereof). Likewise, we don't offer JASM to every 16+ y.o. Eagle. You have to be willing to stay part of the life of the troop. We may offer it to non-eagles.

Hey ALB, FWIW I'll be praying for you tonight. (Rumor has it that helps from time to time.) Not just because it's your kid or your pack. You said it was your church, so whatever decision they make will affect the ministry of your house of worship for years down the road. Pastor has to walk a fine line between helping people maintain their dignity and reading the writing on the wall.

I can believe that a guy would show up drunk with his kids. It happens. Definitely a have the DE step in on a organizational level and the pastor step in on a personal level. (Any pastor worth his salt has had to deal with drunks coming in the church door. Your house is an extention of the church.) And don't be surprised about folks willing to step in and help if their existing unit is sailing smoothly. Your willingness to be mentored and a desire to make something work provides an opportunity for a gifted leader to try something new.

Turns out that a regard for moral standards helps address the youth protection issue. There've been a number of times -- with my crew more than my troop -- when I've pointed out that "I'm not going to rattle off a bunch of rules. I know your religion. I expect you to live up to it on activities." So, yeah, I guess I play the morality card a little more explicitly with Venturers.

First, bless your families who participate. This must be a lot of fun for your boys. For my crew, I use Google spreadsheets, which allows me to create an online form for sign-ups. The basic data goes directly into the spreadsheet. I use this to collect general stuff (last name, how many can drive, what your paying for, etc...). PM me and I'll send you an example form. Second (since you don't have internet/power/computer whatever on site), whatever you use, stop online collection the week before. Print everything up on 3-hole paper, and have it in a binder for the trip. From there, work from paper. That way, I get a rough idea of numbers for a tour plan, and who owes me money and more detailed info (e.g. driver stuff, etc ...). I DO NOT gather personal info online. Refunds depend on the cost relative to participants. Some activities we get a group discount or there is a fixed fee per group, so cancellations can cause the budget to explode for the rest of the particiapnts. In those cases, no refund, the preson who cancelled is responsible for finding a replacement and they can get money (or not) from thier replacement. In other cases the only cost is food and fuel and we come in under budget, so we can refund cancellations. (Even for stupid reasons like "I thought my girlfriend was allowed to come but when her dad found out I'd be there he wouldn't let her go.")

Muslims believe in the resurrection ("So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!" The Koran quoting Jesus.) They don't believe it was subsequent to a shameful death on the cross. By their own admission, they are decidedly not Christian.