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TAHAWAK's list omits fatalities in transit to/from camp. For this situation, it sounds like the important thing is to have life guards with effective rescue equipment (which may include kayaks). There is a level of unpredictability with kids in large groups that you should account for.

Sounds like they are folks you trust, and you have a little time to prepare. If any of them are young women, they should meet your female adult who will be going on the trip. That's not uncommon, and thus we have "venturers" instead of "venture scouts". We shouldn't really expect a crew to be all that obsessive about uniforming or patrolling. We want them to come to agreement on the next adventure of their choice and do what it takes to arrive at it. (Sometimes "traditional" scouting is what it takes. Other times, not.)

Understand that a lot of these comments stem from experiences of unintended consequences. Every troop and crew committee needs to think long and hard about what it can "do" for the boys. All of us SM/ASM/Advisors have had to deal with domineering MC's, and for us to succeed we sometimes have had to read them the riot act. On rare occasions, we need to listen to them. And most of the time we do so just to be polite. You've admitted you're in a precarious position ... with a well-meaning scoutmaster who seems to have evil twins throughout the nation in troops/crews just like yours. And practically speaking, you need to avoid getting "read the riot act" (although really the world's not going to fall apart if SM has to say "this is how it's gonna be" once and a while), provide opinions and act in ways that your SM can and will respect, and make sure that he's not -- out of sheer politeness -- wasting precious time on tasks of minimum impact. ​ That's actually a selling point. The W2's in a boy-led troop can be assured that they will be pretty much scouting with their buddies. No being split up into a half-dozen existing patrols. They have a majority when electing leaders, etc ... There's the story of Korah's rebellion ... best remind folks about it. You've recognized that the SM is an improvement over the past. Talk him up. Tell your parents there's reasons to expect great things of him.

Welcome to the forums! The short answer to your broader question: scouters have supported youth like your son at every level of scouting. They don't have to earn a religious emblem. They do have to develop an age-appropriate understanding of duty to God. Most boys aren't rigorous theologians, but they benefit from talking to their families about religious life. And then attending in their friends' religious activities from time to time. And then coming back and talking to their families (and later their scoutmasters or other caring adults) about it. This is the culture that scouting is trying to inculcate.

(Sorry for jumping back a few replies, but this got lost when the server froze.) But ... what if you fish and say "Watch me!" One possibility: How solid is each and every committee member in first class scout skills? Would it help if you all were in the back of the room timing or otherwise coaching each other on tying every knot? Reciting all of the versus if the national anthem? Working on kosher meal plans? Lashing together a catapult? Tying slings? Pushups or pull-ups? Rigging a shelter? What I am thinking is that sometimes boys model what they see. And sometimes they'll try harder when they see that some adults are having it tough. And, maybe one or two will help that adult. In helping, they'll learn to mentor. For example: bear bagging. I had never done it, only read about it, usually just let the older boys take care of it when we were in bear country. Then on one hike, I asked a boy who had been to Philmont to show me how. To this day, when I am demonstrating it to other youth, I credit him for teaching me. That way, the youth get it into their heads that "Hey, this isn't just about me and my buddies checking off a to-do list. This is about having skills that I can share with others -- youth and adult." It's come-along-side-leadership. It's the long road. But it's the one with the greatest vision.

Be honest and upfront with the parents. Simply put, the Pack did not make purchasing belt-loops a priority. If parents have problems with that, maybe their service on the Pack committee could help find some resolution. Let's challenge your thinking there just a little. Have you asked your son if he would mind working a fundraiser so everyone could get the loops that they actually earned even if his buddy maybe didn't work as hard ? A scout is helpful, after all. And we're talking about decorations here. I would ask the boys in the den how important they think it is to "bling out" their belts? Or, are they just as proud knowing they've done some cool stuff. Explain the cost of a belt loop vs. a slice of pizza. Would they all pitch in on a fundraiser? Or, would they rather go on a campout? Or do they want to leave it up to each boy to purchase the loops that he earned? (Obviously you wouldn't hand loops out at a pack meeting in that case, you'd just recognize who earned them. You'd help order for the kids who want to buy them discreetly.)

Does it help to prepare young people to make ethical and moral decisions? IMHO more than STEM does. Oh, and no offense to Druids, but they didn't exactly populate the continent we live on. I agree that "subculture worship" can be a distraction, but it can also result in boys discovering new avenues of service, here's a neat link that shows how http://www.oa-bsa.org/pages/content/lodge-ledger-2013-05-3.

Promises of flowers, chocolate, and the chance that 10 years from now a fine young man will invite them to his Eagle Court of Honor.

What we have, here, is a failure to calculate. My boys do this all the time. "We want bacon and eggs for breakfast." "So how many eggs should you buy?" "I dunno enough for all of us." "And how many of us is that exactly?" "6, maybe 8." "How many eggs for each of you?" "Two I suppose." "Okay so how many are we buying?" "Three dozen?"

"American Heritage Girls" they had a Memorandum of Understanding with BSA until last year's membership standards change. Then they weren't so understanding and withdrew their MoU. Folks on the ground generally ignored these national machinations, evidently AHG's "national" is not going to let that happen.

Gotta love this era of bulk discount food purchases! This is why everyone returns to the scout house and unpacks everything. It's part of the trip plan. We might set aside non-perishable, vermin-proof goods for the next camping weekend ... or even to cook the next meeting night. Perishables get divided up and sent to homes that will likely put them to good use. The CO has a food bank, and the boys have helped stock it enough that they know where things can be placed. But, we discourage that because someone might get it into their thick heads that they can take out as easily as they can put in! Anyway, CNY, your job is to understand what the boy is thinking. Then work from there. Obviously, it would be a good idea to do that through the SPL if he's the type of leader that can politely ask "why" and figure out amongst the boys what the best solution would be.

Welcome to Christianity's nasty divorce. Kids, choose your custodian wisely.

When it comes to questions like this, I don't ask if today's boys find it popular. I ask myself "Is it good for the nation?" Is learning about (and to some degree reenacting) the trials, tribulations, creativity, and resourcefulness of the peoples who worked this land before we farmed and industrialized it helpful? Will being exposed to this caricature of an ancient way of life (that in all likelihood differs from that of the boy's ancestors) enable a boy to be a better citizen? Will memories of those drum pulses, dances, and nights under the stars help the mind negotiate the sometimes barren world of STEM? Will even a cursory understanding of the many nations on American soil yield more knowledgeable voters? If the answer to those questions is affirmative, then trying to get an "outsider's inside view" of N/A tradition is worthwhile. And, honestly, until the college anthropology courses, O/A was the only place that provided any material for my curious mind.

Mentioned this in another thread, and realized it might not be commonly considered. Our troop has a spaghetti dinner. There are the usual advance ticket sales plus pay at the door. Furthermore, our CO purchases some of the tickets for folks who've been clients of our food pantry. That way, they get to participate with the rest of the community without anyone needing to know they are going through some tough times. However, some of these folks go out of their way to thank the boys for making their lives a little easier over the past year. However, the boys also visit local businesses to sell ad-space on the place-mats. They collect business cards or the company can E-mail their logo which gets forwarded to our printer (whose kids were in scouts or venturing and will generate black-and-white mats at no cost to us). What I like about this: although the product is a little more abstract, it is likely to be along the lines of the kind of job many of these boys will have -- especially the ones who are into game development and web design. Learning how to sell space for someone's good name is a skill in of itself!

You're onto something. The committee can help the boys by assembling a "short list" of people to contact for topics of interest. It really should be up to those boys to make those contacts. But you might want to say "By the way. Mr. __ said he'd be willing to drop by and show us some cool stuff if a youth gave him a call."

Wasn't able to post ALL day. (Until now, that is.)

Yep. Been there done that. Although I suggest tacking on a $5 surcharge for non-members. You can put it towards their crew dues if they join, or reduce everyone else's dues if they don't.

I suspect there's all manner of variation. Moreover, each SM has his own style. What I wrote comes off more formal than it actually sounded. In our district, SM/ASM leave the room during the review. Then the scout is sent out, and we sit with the scout while they deliberate. Then we come back in with him to here their decision.

I've done it once, maybe twice. I think I was pretty terse: "Good evening. It is my pleasure to present for your review Eagle candidate ____. He is a member in good standing of troop/crew ____. His current official responsibilities are ____. We held a scoutmaster conference on ____, and reviewed his Eagle application and project workbook (copies of which have been given to this board earlier) and found them to be in good order. The scoutmasters of troop ___ are proud of this young man's accomplishments. We will be downstairs while you review them and determine your recommendation."

I was specifically referring to how a scout chooses to advance (or not). It is important to do right by the CO, but most COs are really not bothered about the details of advancement. My CO wants our kids to grow up good and say grace at meals. I think your CO's requirements, although many, fall along similar lines. That may demand you set guidelines for program planning or even discipline, but not for advancement. Guidlines No! Training/mentoring: Yes! And, I provided an example of how a committee can be part of that process without taking ownership of the program from the boys. Your joint campout is another fine example. Without mandating it, those 3 boys got a vision of how important it was to be a 1st class scout (the concept, not the patch). The MC's task, then, is to recognize those boys in a way that other boys see how much you appreciated their hard work. Maybe ask the SPL for a minute during meeting announcements to give those fellas thank-you cards signed by the cubs. That's why I asked about the ILST course. It's not the "end all" solution for boy leadership. In fact, I have to sneak itin to my troop's activities since they hate the sound "class." But it gives the boys a handful of things they can improve upon, and gives them an idea of when and how to ask for help from whom. Other ways to mentor: a committee member might have access to a boardroom with touch-screen monitors and video conference capability. The boys might want to use that to talk to scouts from another part of the country or world. Someone else might be a party/event planner. The boys might go to them to see how their business works. Then the SM might ask the boys if anything they saw might help them plan the next troop event. The boys can visit a town meeting. Or maybe a toastmasters club. Your sales coach is an awesome resource. Teaching boys that they can learn something from other organizations is a great idea. We have a dad who coaches our boys in selling advertizing space on the place-mats for our spaghetti dinner. My point is that you don't want your committee get into the rut of writing policies that may work for a year, but bog a troop down for decades thereafter. Rather, you want them to get into the routine of being on the lookout for how to help each boy advance his God-given talents. Generally, if he does that, rank advancement will follow.

Sorry for taking your post piecemeal, but there are a lot of ideas that stick out on their own.

Tough nuts, eh? Looks like your high adventures are going to be anime conventions! Or start brainstorming ... It sounds like these guys are willing to help others, so try to find ways to challenge them in that arena. Explain that you want the boys to render Minecraft in 7D (that's 3D plus the other 4 senses). Those shelters might need some new construction, which might begin with a drive to collect tools or materials. Or maybe there's a Habitat for Humanity organization that needs help sorting supplies. (World Vision has their shipping facility near our neighborhood - it's been a great opportunity for our youth to learn about international relief work.) Talk to the health department and see if they can come for a meeting and talk about infectious diseases. (I'll give you points for super-coolness if you can find a Dr. or Nurse who came back from West Africa recently.) As a troop. Don't go camping anymore. Instead plan 36 hour search and rescue/disaster relief drills. Employ radios, search grids, computer networking, remote sensing, etc ... Give them a "patient" for whom they must set up shelter over night once they find him. The patient can be a wireless thermometer that has to be maintained at a certain temperature. Good luck.