qwazse

I've gone over the syllabus, but missed an opportunity to work through it in a class. Not much has changed. New advancement scheme, but most of us think that's of neutral value. The best part of training is getting to know your fellow leaders. The'll be essential resources as you go forward.

This is one of those horse-to-water situations. The good thing is, with "pushed" advancement, you can count on more frequent scoutmaster conferences with the boy. And really, once the beer has worn off, the time you spend in dialogue with the scout is your only option. And, that time can include stories like "You know back in the day, there was this thing called a First Class journey. ... If you had a chance to do something like that, what would it be like? Where? How? What do you think it would take for your folks to let you go?" Independent camping is definitely not likely for this boy. It's just a vision. But, it's a starting point for helping him to interact with his dad and the advancement method in a more balanced fashion.

We're not talking about blind trust here. Scouts who've shown a lack of ambition in skill-building, a lack of integrity, behavioral issues, etc ... won't go far from the SM's steely-eyed glaze! That applies even if they're well over 18! The boys and girls who camp independently have earned the trust of their parents. "Here's the keys to the car. The gear's in the garage. Take what you need. Fill up the tank when you get back." ... That kind of trust. And, Barry, I've known scouts who, with their parent's permission, set up camp with their girlfriends. Why were they allowed? Because in that context the parents could justify a conversation about sexual boundaries... something that doesn't happen when Johny and Jane skip off to the mall, or drive-in, or either family's basement. So, if the demise of independent camping has anything to do with a coed vision for the organization, I think it is sorely misguided.

No 'Skip, you are not alone. The craziest politicians are the ones who dare promote balanced views and actually make their policies and priorities known to the public. They are up for drubbing from all sides. It's better to go around drawing a picture of a radicalized world that needs to be saved so that you can paint yourself as its savior without actually saving anything. Bottom line: girls aren't being trained in promiscuity through their scouting program. Teen cable channels and streaming video are doing that for us. But, many scouts aren't being trained to "unplug," live in our great land like a pioneer for a day or two every month or so, and use that experience to make them strong and good.

Agree with Rick, to a point. Boundaries are important. The entire flat cannot be a non-swimmer area! Even an enclosed wading area can be fraught with risks. Once one of my kids was on the way to becoming a passive victim in shallow enclosed water. Although standing depth, he wasn't finding his feet. He was in a guard's "blind spot" (although in a pool, there should never be one) and may have been noticed in another minute ... or not! Fortunately my guard training has me always scanning, and I saw him and could pull him up just as his movements were slowing. He caught his breath, and since I managed to pull up the poker face before he opened his eyes, put his feet down, and was good to go. Hurray buddy system. Application in this context: Everyone crosses with a buddy. Plenty of lookouts, and guards set the boundary long and skinny -- so it's probably going to be the imaginary lines between them. Ropes and floats are of no consequence here, although I could see the use of a long low density rope, as a helpful indicator. (Where it goes under, you know to look out for a kid.) The number of guards determines the number who cross at a time. Although honestly, I wouldn't allow more than 10 buddy pairs total. That way the lookout isn't counting higher than 20, and everybody is more likely to keep track of everyone else. Needless to say, a guard trained in your council might apply the rules differently according to his experience and the conditions at hand. But, if you come up short, I'm an airline ticket and room and board away!

Well, I guess the closest metric would any night where that 300' minimum distance is honored. But, when I'm backpacking with the boys this weekend, and our target valley is nary 100 yards wide, I'm not going to move my site so they can get "street cred" ! I never think of the "troop's use" of the patrol method, because we're a small troop and my challenge is youth buy-in. Although an SM deserves props for the required servant leadership to make it happen, when a patrol actually acts like one for 24 hours straight, credit should go to the boys. Why replace the Jambo patch? IMHO it's just not the pinnacle scouting experience. It's inspiring (it inspired me to explore minimal impact camping, snorkeling, and satellite imagery) but it's a niche that attracts less than 3% of eligible membership. Likewise the HA bases ... not for every boy ... although very inspiring to some boys. I'm not discounting the importance of some boys coming back from these "big ticket" events and reshaping their troop as a result. That's important ... But, the vision every First Class scout should have is of them finding a time and a place and, with confidence in themselves, understanding of their mate's abilities, and complete trust of caring adults, taking their mates on an overnight outing. At the end of the day it boils down to who I want my youth picking out of a crowd. I think I want them to be able to find the guy who can tell them about that "awesome site by this terrific stream that we found while patrolling" ...

Barry, although 300' absolutely terrorizes my SM (we're all learners in one way or another ), the boys are generally quite comfortable with it. But I underlined two key phrases. This is not about gross percentages. The patrol who routinely throws together a solid plan that any SM or advisor would feel comfortable with is a rare animal, and usually has a couple of 18-year-olds in tow. It is about the type of scout we are losing. Say there's a 16 year old out there who's calling the farmer down the road, getting permission, explaining to his buddies and their parents the location, return time, and emergency contact of their overnight, earning the trust of all adults involved ... HOW WOULD YOU NOT WANT THAT BOY INSPIRING THE BOYS IN YOUR TROOP TO DO THE SAME? This is not a numbers game. This is about vision.

E94, did I say anything about well-planned overnights needing to be sanctioned by any national organization?

So if you think the field uniform is the dress uni, what in the blue blazers do you think the blue blazer is? In general, when I think "field" I'm thinking parade, flags, and such. When it comes time to play British bulldog, cook, or tend fire, the tan shirt comes off, and IMHO, each patrol should have it's own t-shirt design, although there could be a standard issue which would have ink-pressed patrol name and patch.

Welcome back! And thanks for your service to the boys. Not sure what you are referring to re: MGM. But, yes, things change. Vintage insignia can be worn, but get to know the folks in the lodge to understand the history of the changes, because sooner or later some youth is going to ask you about it. Every old salt has their pet peeve, mine is that for boys to have the pinnacle scouting experience (hiking and camping with their buddies independent of adults), they must do so outside the bounds of BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting.

Our CO took us 20 minutes to get to for cub meetings from our house. And nearly every pack function took that long to go to. We later learned how to shave the trip down to 10 minutes after son #1 started dating a young lady from that neighborhood.

So did Jesus. What's your point?

With 200k venturers, perhaps 100k female, 50k of GS age, most still in their troops, others who quit long before they were old enough to venture, so lets say liberally 10k who actually quit their troop to join a crew with probably on 2k doing so last year. That would account for 1% of GSUSA's membership loss. A falling tide grounds all boats.

It's really essential that the non-scouts get a training and shake-down. If they are busy, some of you venturers will have to make time to have it at their convenience. If you have to, ask your youth leader if you can have time to talk about your upcoming exploit. It should be easy to justify talking about surviving a day in the wilderness when our Lord took 40 at a stretch!

In addition to your son's enthusiasm for your leadership. Some suggestions: 1. Program according to the needs in your community. Take a walk down your street. Meet every boy your son's age. Ask what they like to do for fun. Figure out if your "den" might do something similar. Go with your son and pass out invites. 2. Gather your pack and visit another Pack's meeting. Have each boy meet with their counterpart den. At your next pack meeting, ask them what they liked about being in a big group, and what they like about being in your small group. In may be that the boys will really want to be part of the larger pack. But, you may also learn that they like their smaller pack. Either way, they begin to develop the phrases they can tell their friends that may get them to join scouting. And you get a better idea of how you can best serve the youth in your community. Good luck.

TAHAWAK's list omits fatalities in transit to/from camp. For this situation, it sounds like the important thing is to have life guards with effective rescue equipment (which may include kayaks). There is a level of unpredictability with kids in large groups that you should account for.

Sounds like they are folks you trust, and you have a little time to prepare. If any of them are young women, they should meet your female adult who will be going on the trip. That's not uncommon, and thus we have "venturers" instead of "venture scouts". We shouldn't really expect a crew to be all that obsessive about uniforming or patrolling. We want them to come to agreement on the next adventure of their choice and do what it takes to arrive at it. (Sometimes "traditional" scouting is what it takes. Other times, not.)

Understand that a lot of these comments stem from experiences of unintended consequences. Every troop and crew committee needs to think long and hard about what it can "do" for the boys. All of us SM/ASM/Advisors have had to deal with domineering MC's, and for us to succeed we sometimes have had to read them the riot act. On rare occasions, we need to listen to them. And most of the time we do so just to be polite. You've admitted you're in a precarious position ... with a well-meaning scoutmaster who seems to have evil twins throughout the nation in troops/crews just like yours. And practically speaking, you need to avoid getting "read the riot act" (although really the world's not going to fall apart if SM has to say "this is how it's gonna be" once and a while), provide opinions and act in ways that your SM can and will respect, and make sure that he's not -- out of sheer politeness -- wasting precious time on tasks of minimum impact. ​ That's actually a selling point. The W2's in a boy-led troop can be assured that they will be pretty much scouting with their buddies. No being split up into a half-dozen existing patrols. They have a majority when electing leaders, etc ... There's the story of Korah's rebellion ... best remind folks about it. You've recognized that the SM is an improvement over the past. Talk him up. Tell your parents there's reasons to expect great things of him.

Welcome to the forums! The short answer to your broader question: scouters have supported youth like your son at every level of scouting. They don't have to earn a religious emblem. They do have to develop an age-appropriate understanding of duty to God. Most boys aren't rigorous theologians, but they benefit from talking to their families about religious life. And then attending in their friends' religious activities from time to time. And then coming back and talking to their families (and later their scoutmasters or other caring adults) about it. This is the culture that scouting is trying to inculcate.

(Sorry for jumping back a few replies, but this got lost when the server froze.) But ... what if you fish and say "Watch me!" One possibility: How solid is each and every committee member in first class scout skills? Would it help if you all were in the back of the room timing or otherwise coaching each other on tying every knot? Reciting all of the versus if the national anthem? Working on kosher meal plans? Lashing together a catapult? Tying slings? Pushups or pull-ups? Rigging a shelter? What I am thinking is that sometimes boys model what they see. And sometimes they'll try harder when they see that some adults are having it tough. And, maybe one or two will help that adult. In helping, they'll learn to mentor. For example: bear bagging. I had never done it, only read about it, usually just let the older boys take care of it when we were in bear country. Then on one hike, I asked a boy who had been to Philmont to show me how. To this day, when I am demonstrating it to other youth, I credit him for teaching me. That way, the youth get it into their heads that "Hey, this isn't just about me and my buddies checking off a to-do list. This is about having skills that I can share with others -- youth and adult." It's come-along-side-leadership. It's the long road. But it's the one with the greatest vision.

Be honest and upfront with the parents. Simply put, the Pack did not make purchasing belt-loops a priority. If parents have problems with that, maybe their service on the Pack committee could help find some resolution. Let's challenge your thinking there just a little. Have you asked your son if he would mind working a fundraiser so everyone could get the loops that they actually earned even if his buddy maybe didn't work as hard ? A scout is helpful, after all. And we're talking about decorations here. I would ask the boys in the den how important they think it is to "bling out" their belts? Or, are they just as proud knowing they've done some cool stuff. Explain the cost of a belt loop vs. a slice of pizza. Would they all pitch in on a fundraiser? Or, would they rather go on a campout? Or do they want to leave it up to each boy to purchase the loops that he earned? (Obviously you wouldn't hand loops out at a pack meeting in that case, you'd just recognize who earned them. You'd help order for the kids who want to buy them discreetly.)