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I would encourage you to not make that distinction. Wherever the troop goes, they are representing the CO. This is a balance between freedom of expression and right to privacy. You need your people to understand that that balance should be struck wherever they find themselves. How you treat this will rub off on the boys and how they understand "reverent" wherever they are.

MyScouting tools let you do just that. However, I've never needed to. Laurel Highlands Council has always been good at getting us our stuff. One of the finer pleasures in life is to give a female venturer her card, shake her hand, and say welcome to the Boy Scouts of America.

I have not hesitated to stand up for my youth and adults verbally and in writing to my district executive and district commissioner when unit commissioners have maligned them and our unit's good number to scouters in other units under their charge. When proper, I copied all direct witnesses and aggrieving parties to make sure that they knew what I knew. It might not change anyone's behavior, but I was glad to have laid it out in the open, and my committee knew I would not let our chain be yanked. Your SM should rattle off a quick note decrying this unseemly behavior. Frankly, I would request the one fellow be removed from the commissioner's corps. He did not perform his duty, which would have simply been, "You should call the SM to get the back-story on this kid."

If you have rafters, or can hang hooks, you may want to set up a Tarzan relay, where all but two boys stand on buckets (or round matts if you fear falls) evenly spaced across the room between 1/8" ropes hanging from the ceiling. Have a loop or a carabiner at the end of each rope for easy transfer. The remaining two boys are at the ends of the line. The boys try to swing a toy (or a drawstring pouch full of candy) from one end of the room to the other without any boys falling off the buckets. Increase difficulty by having multiple toys. See which den can transfer five toys the fastest. Increase difficulty again by having different toys at both ends needing to be transferred in the opposite directions ... or empty pouches at one end that need to be filled at the other and sent back. Increase difficulty again by having the boys switch positions each time a toy completes a trip. Really increase difficulty by having two lines criss-cross in the middle of the room. The boys will love you by the end of this.

Well, @, we won"t know if she was wrong until next year. At which time if the ASM is still kicking, she can be treated as a false prophet. Hope the boys will have improved their throwing arm by then. (Actually, I don't know if in Jewish tradition you have to be bar-mitzvah'd to stone a false prophet.) Actually, @AlwayGolden, this is a teachable moment for the boys. If this woman has a past behavior like this, you need to talk to the SM about about helping those two boys understand what they heard in that context. This might seem like a religious practice the woman holds dear, but if you were to talk to her religious leaders, you might learn something completely different. Depending on the situation, the boys might need to apply, kindness, bravery, or reverence. Really, 12 is a good age to experience this sort of thing. Thanks to my family's beer business and all of our different religions, I was exposed to our county's panoply of saints and sinners by that age. It really helped me to be a better scout. Regarding what to say to the mom, if you are representing your church, you might want to discuss this with your institutional head.

Service stars!

My experience: In life-saving, speed and quick-wits matter more than size or maturity. In life-guarding maturity matters more than speed, size, or quick-wits. A lifesaving class might just be what a swim-like-a-fish 11 year old needs to help him grab what he needs to make that rescue. The drowning victim you will never ask the age of his/her rescuer. Here's the thing: if you do have a couple of boys who earn lifesaving in their first year ... you want to strongly encourage them keep their skills sharp. That might mean leaning on them to earn BSA guard or Red Cross Lifeguard when they are 14.

Well the train wreck finally happened Like Moose said, use the printed copy that you have. (Make a copy of it or at least scan it to your computer as a back--up.) Get a new blue card for every badge the boy wants to finish. Prepare him to give his long sad story to each counselor.

What you are talking about is stealth advancement and reflection ... it has its place at every level of scouting.What your friend is talking about is personal growth and planning ... it has its place at every level of scouting. They are mutually inclusive strategies.

Wheelbarrows. The US Occupational Health and Safety Association (OSHA) says 14 year olds should not be employed to use them. BSA has circulated that and other tool use recommendations to their units. Yes, some camps do offer optional programming features that allow the units to do just that. It seems to be becoming more popular.

@@StillLoomans, this is not your problem. The camp wants its lifesaving students to earn swimming MB. So, tell mom or dad the boy can either: 1. Contact the swimming MBCs in your district to see if he can earn it before camp then earn lifesaving at camp, 2. Contact the lifesaving MBCs in your district to see if he can earn it before or after camp and swimming at camp, or 3. Earn both badges from an MBC in the district, and have dub building catapults at camp, or 4. Earn lifesaving MBC from a district counselor, and forget swimming and earn hiking or cycling instead, or 5. Earn emergency preparedness instead of lifesaving, Leave the adding to the requirements rhetoric in the garbage can with the fiddle used to play "My Heart Bleeds for You." Meanwhile encourage the SM to suss out how much the boy really wants to earn Lifesaving and why.

@@moosetracker, it's a grey area entirely dependent on how the deed was worded when the land was gifted. It was probably worded as a gift to scouts, not to the CO's in particular. And, unlike equipment, parcels of land may be counted as the equivalent of financial contributions. Which is why the SE pounced. That's why most lawyers in these parts put a stipulation in the title that if the land is sold, all proceeds from the sale revert to the estate of the donor.

@@KentClizbe, either provide a quote from the pertinent section of your manuscript, or don't reference it. We don't need a snake oil salesman when plenty of us on these forums brew it for free. @@Scouter99, we've had similar problems with elected SPL's ... only one of whom was the SM's son. The grass ain't necessarily greener, but at least the boys planted it. Everybody, teach boys that if half of their patrol activities are not independent of the troop, they will run the risk of being subsumed by the SPL's agenda.

Love this!!! It's like my boys have evil twins! What they needed was a "vision" of what a patrol should be preparing to do. You gave them that by saying, "These are the games you can play, and this is the one you are going to do, and do it until you like it." Every patrol is different, mine are currently older boys (if they are acting through the crew things are only slightly different than when they are doing it through a patrol), so navigating an Appalachian bog in a race against bears to the blueberries is a vision that they accept. Settling down comfortably in weather that others would curse and finding beauty therein is another vision that they accept. It's something that *I* told them that *I* expect every scout in any unit *I* serve should aspire to do. They've accepted it ... with some limits. From time to time I remind them that their "won't do" lists make up the bars in the prisons of their own design, and If they want to break some shackles, I'm here with the keys. This is how we talk. It doesn't work for everyone, and it doesn't always work with these guys. But it lays the groundwork for further growth in all of us. For younger scouts ... you do need to be more concrete. "Okay, Wolfs, you've been together for a year, your PL has become a first class scout. Your mission is to set up camp on the opposite side of the field from us adults. Get a fire started quickly, and cook dinner on it. Then review the map of this area and come to me with your plan for tomorrow's 5 mile hike through town. Determine when you will have breakfast, when you will have secured camp for your absence, and when you will return. Set a time tonight or tomorrow for me to review your plan." The first outing, after months of sheltering under the wings of the older boys in the troop playing scout skill games, they might balk. Or they might be overly ambitious. But regardless, they need to get a vision via adult association to know where they stand. I don't consider any of that going against the patrol method. I consider it defining the method for the boys so that they apply it successfully.

I'm not averse to the concept. I can't truly speak to waste of money until I see the production budget (split between paper and digital) and then a year later compare it to sales. But, I voted pessimistically until those are made public. My main concern: transferability. Once a boy is finished using the pamphlet, how can he turn it in to his troop library? What tool can a troop librarian have to manage these E-volumes? Say, he has four licenses for one book. Five guys are working on the badge. Can he determined who gets which volume? Is he able to "call back" licenses if they haven't been excersized? In other words, I know how to make paper pamphlets -- and the sharing of them to contain costs -- part of a youth's responsibility. I want to know how do the same thing with this new product from the company that's selling this service.

Hmmm. It's like @@MattR had a definition of patrolling that envisioned these groups of boys needing to light fire quickly in order to live up to the definition. I guess the growth of scoutmaster skills involves learning when and how hard to nudge a stagnating patrol. We need to accept that when you have to push one aspect of your vision for a patrol, boys may push back. It's a quandary. Just "doing what you do" may not inspire your boys to imitate. Telling them they should do what you do may have them digging their heels. Either way, the practical result for me is their plans for hiking and camping independently need to be tailored to the skills that they have demonstrated. For example, as much as my boys would likely enjoy it, there's no crossing bogs off-trail until they come back from orienteering courses with solid after-action reviews. Obviously, that requires they set up or attend orienteering courses.

They could stand to travel a little. "I've never been to Niagara Falls before, but based on the pictures, I'm pretty sure this is what it's like. ..." Of course, the poor girl was a reporter, not a forecaster, but we still can't stop laughing!

He does not need to be tapped out. The local lodge chief or advisor should be able to tell him where/how to send his dues to re activate his membership.

Didn't the pioneering MB pamphlet have some instructions on building a log cabin?

Sorry to not get back to this earlier ... I had my nose to far into the I&P thread and missed these awesome (as usual) questions ... The simple answer is: (unless I've underestimated your omnipresence) you won't always be there. Two years from now when this boy is out on his own with his buddies and their girlfriends and his muscle memory about axe grinding fails him, will @@Oldscout448, or you or I be around for him to get a quick refresher -- even if he does manage to find cell service up the hill from whatever idyllic vally they set up camp in? It's vital that each boy knows there's a reference he can turn to ... a book that he can keep at hand, maybe. Or a pamphlet that might go into specific detail. So, when we're not around, each can rehearse the skill with some surety that they are working from a common source. By having a boy grab his handbook, and look up the pertinent section, an SM may also learn that their are gaps and inadequacies in one reference relative to the skill level the boys are shooting for, and can make sure they have something written at the level they are trying to achieve.

I guess that's where I differ. The last DE and I ... our spouses were colleagues, so we had him his wife and their dog over once or twice. The current DE, well, we wound up riding around on a quad during a SAR at summer camp last year. For us these were young guys who grew up in the program. The venturing DEs have been a little more hit-and-miss. But then again, they come into the program as outsiders. From time to time I've had to call them out at RTs over some asinine council policy they were parroting, but that's point, isn't it? A working district is just big enough to cover a wide geography and still provide two-way communication between and among the pro's and the volunteers. That stuff did get run up the chain, sometimes at my (or someone in the troop's) request. And our SE's would let us bend their ear. These must have been decent enough folks, because two of them made it to CSE. I have met other SE's who at times were quite proud of their brick shithouses (quite literally) and didn't mention a word of their staff and volunteers, so I suspect there can be other ways of doing business out there not conducive tight-knit districts. So decent districts should provide a little something for every unit.

Agree with @@Stosh. The only alternative is to dig your heels in and say "I'm the treasurer now. These are the rules. They are for the good of the troop. Follow them." That said, a motion approved in committee minutes for a specific purpose may count as a receipt. (E.g. "By CC: To give Mrs. X, $100.00 in advance for court of honor preparation. Seconded by SM. Approved.") That way in your ledger you can reference the minutes. Then if the woman goes on a bender with her motorcycle gang, the troop has legal recourse to demand $ if the desired product was not there.

Oops, just read your other post, and saw you are an adult, and this was the unit award that you went for. Still, thanks for letting us know the hoops.

Welcome to the forums. Glad your pack took this on with you! Let's face it, some boys are better at service projects than others. Those simple steps of getting guidance, doing research, and working with an advisor are daunting to most first class scouts. Usually, the most I expect of a first class scout is to present me a plan to take his patrol hiking and camping with maybe an hour of service thrown in for good measure. I routinely expect that of my venturers, and they are often very uncomfortable with that humble objective. Youth willing to mobilize their community are a rare breed. Keep encouraging your peers to do fly in rarefied air.. Messaging does work. And other scouts watching might contact you if their parents allow them to talk to strangers in the Internet. Alternatively, there is a way to open a blog on this site if you want to share your experience in detail ... Not that any of have tried it, but there's always a first .

it was in reply to one of Bryan's earlier thread. I don't have the patience for digging through his old posts. Sorry for not making that clear. Fairness to scouting magazine, they don't delete comments like those. Opting to let them get buried in the slew of daily threads. Cousin Robbie makes the same slippery slope argument. I don't think it's entirely fair. The permissive sexuality movement is evolving boundaries as it advances. Less permissive folks may not trust the ability of people to maintain said boundaries (adults of minority orientations with too few similar adults -- coupled with the mobility of hormonal adolescents -- does sound like gasoline on fire), but I give them credit for trying.