qwazse

Your horror stories make me proud of (The Great) Seneca district and how they train their FoS volunteers in the utmost courtesy.

@@Stosh, I sincerely wish that there were enough caring and capable adults in the world -- and childhood was extended enough -- to offer any panoply of configurations a kid could wish for. We all know that in small-town America ... even in certain distressed urban areas ... that's just not the case. Somebody somewhere always winds up in a situation that doesn't suit their palate. In spite of its omission from the title ... this is about the patrol method, how much folks feel that exclusively "male" (or at least unisex) participants are to its implementation, and what other trade-offs one might be willing to make. Obviously, none of us know what novel thing we'll put up with or rail against until someone we care about wants to try it. Thus "thought experiment". If anyone finds it untenable, no one's stopping them from fabricating their own simulated district.

It's called an application because you are asking permission to participate in scouting according to the principles of the organization (I.e., those words you're supposed to say every night.) It sounds like you have proof that the applicant is not brokering in good faith.

My versions of reality never have enough detail. Not sure if I would handle the situation differently in either case. Let's just have you navigate the problem with the last such boy (and his family) who came to you with such a situation. So, maybe your cubs have sisters around a lot, but for me, I had last helped a neighbor's kid who never was in cub scouts. If you think it matters ... let us know who that kid was. @@Stosh and @@sst3rd, Not everyone lives in such a scouting-rich territory. But, I guess telling a boy to forgo scouting because no unit is good enough for him is a valid strategy if you sincerely think it will give him the best personal growth. My pics, I think, are 1 or 2. I'd encourage the boy to consider those two. Although it's not my favorite I've seen kids do okay in adult-lead troops. And, I'm thinking a boy is more likely find himself among friends if his patrol is all guys.

This is an extrapolation on my understand of how my Czech friends say scouting panned out in their district. Suppose the GS/USA never promotes a vision of hiking and camping independently with your mates, COs started insisting on such a program for girls and boys, and a few soft hearted scouters pull it together -- possibly within the BSA but maybe under another umbrella with similar street cred (so much so, that congress gives it a charter after decades of not bothering with such niceties). You had only access to three units in your area: - an all-male troop with a reputation for "high-speed, low-drag" adult led micro management. They look impressive though ... All those great gateways that only licensed contractors could build. Nice-looking parlor scouts. etc ... - a troop with female patrols and male patrols, they always do things together with few independent activite smainly because some of the parents don't want to muck about with activity logistics. The advancement program seems fair and rigorous, however. With youth accountable to their PLs for T2FC. - a troop with fully independent patrols -- seemingly age based -- full-on PM camping 100 yards apart. Each patrol is mixed boys and girls. The venture patrol is saving up for a boat at Seabase. They are mentoring the PLC which this year includes a female SPL and male ASPL. Which troop(s) would you recommend to an 11 year old boy in your charge?

@@Hedgehog, I would have never guessed. So, how do you work with a boy on this one? Obviously you know the boundaries! Plus, you clearly have boys who are going to try every outing imaginable. (Not to mention boys from other troops whose SM sent them your way.) How to convert every action into bling is the last thing on their mind (thank goodness)! Furthermore, the only reason I bother with the GTA is to send adults on their merry way. I don't expect boys to wade through it or blogs. Etc .... The reqs, the pamphlet, and his counselor should be all he needs for any determination. So, knowing there's guys like me who want the process to minimize pencil whipping and maximize reflection, what do you do? What might you do differently after hearing us blather on?

The badge card is a half-decent backup for the blue card. Your troop should have one third of that card in their records, and your counselor (or the summer camp) should have the other third. sometimes, boys neglect to get their third of the card from the SM when they turn it in, so you should talk to him/her first. Either third will help you in a pinch. Here's how it happens in our council: The scout fills in the Eagle application based on the information available to him. Often there is an adult in the troop responsible for recording advancement and will be able to privide a print-out of what they recorded. (He/she probably won't even charge for the ink and paper.) After his scoutmaster conference, the scouts application gets turned in at council HQ. Since we are nearby, we often have they boy take it in himself. Every bit of data on that application is cross-checked with council records. They will point out, for example, if the date you earned camping MB on your application was one day off from the date on their records. If that happens, you will pull out your blue card (or the copy of the troop's portion if you didn't have yours). They will pull out their advancement sheets, and make whatever correction is necessary so that all of their data is consistent. After all of the information is confirmed to be correct, they will file your application and let your district advancement chairperson know that you are ready to schedule your board of review. Every council works differently regarding the details, but basically you want to make sure you have a complete record as you fill out your application.

I meant to +1 @@JoeBob. Sorry, all thumbs!

So, if the boys arrive on site Friday AM and build an Adirondack, and sleep in it for the reminder of the weekend, they've racked up 2 camping nights? What if they add a fourth wall and door the second night? Does only the first one count? Why are adults counting camping nights anyway? Here's what I expect from counselors: - The boy should read the requirement on his own. - The boy would then list the campouts he's been on and the number of nights he would like to count from each. Maybe he gets help from the troop scribe, who might have event attendance accurately tracked ... More or less. - He would show the list to his counselor, who would then ask about any questionable ones, have the boy review the requirement, and determine together how many (if any) of the nights would fairly meet the requirements. - They would then tally the nights that the boy can say fairly met the requirements. Then the lay out a plan for the other events he'd need to participate in to accomplish the remaining for the requirement. If the boy forgot to include a campout, that's his problem. If he included one that some of us would not have, that's the counselor's problem. It's all part of teaching our youth to make ethical decisions.

Useful to whom? I'd have a friend at the bottom of 8 ft at a youth-group pool party if I hadn't learned the signs of drowning. Dinner came and I was the next to the last one out. Lifesaving training kicked in: scan the surface, identify distressed swimmer, approach from behind, reach. Get food like nothing happened.

Every council is different. In our council: Our SM conferences partly help the boy prepare for the EBoR. We (usually a couple of ASMs join in) always ask about religion and try to help the boy give an answer that he feels comfortable with. For some boys this is the first time they've been asked to lay out how they work the 12th point of the scout law, and they find putting words to their thoughts a rewarding exercise. A boy may ask for more than one conference if he feels unprepared for the EBoR. All of the boy's advancement records, along with his youth application, are reviewed by council prior to him getting the all-clear to schedule a board of review. Blue cards are crossed-checked with advancement reports. We SM/ASMs introduce the scout to the EBoR then leave and wait elsewhere. Our boards are comprised of the troop/crew committee (the boy's parents excepted) and one or two members of the district advancement committee, and on occasion prominent members of the community. The district representatives are the "quality control" and answer to the Council Advancement Chairman. I have never heard of any problems with our district representatives. They are very good about coaching new committee members. All and all, I like the process because it gives our committee some quality feedback from the best and brightest in our troop.

More things to referee. I've told scouts flatly if they haven't given a day in service at each rank, what kind of scout do they think they are?

My sons resemble that comment! Still, procrastination isn't all that hard. So, just because it takes you years, doesn't make it a challenge. I've generally found whenever a boy needs to overcome some head-game, there's the challenge, that mind-over-matter is different for every boy: That first lean into the cliff face -- trusting your rope for the first time! Holding that mask on your face. That first quarter-mile swim. Searching the bottom of the cold, murky lake. Shooting sports was rough for me ... except for archery. The staff was a great guy who gave me the hints I needed. Even so, I had to go home and shoot all year before I could steady my arm enough to qualify. Decades later, his wife was in my wood badge patrol. Finally got to thank him for it. Took into adulthood for me to figure out firearms. That 20 miler? Hardest step is the first. But, I've never heard a scout who took the badge complain about it. A day with your buddy having lunch someplace cool -- who could ask for more? The book-work. Filling that first sheet of paper can be soul-crushing. Astronomy if you live where cloudy nights outnumber clear! Socking away funds to earn that MB in a "big ticket" way.

OH. No! Our councils wouldn't notice us taking part in your event. If we were to host such an event, we might expect a knock at our door. It would be, for example, your district or county asking for a piece of your pie!

More here: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/06/24/ask-expert-isnt-camping-night-camping-mb/ This source says that the other long term trips don't count at all. Taken to extreme, scouts could be motivated to just go home mid-week and gnome back the next day ... Thus getting at least 5 nights out of each summer camp! @@skeptic's approach could allow a boy to get six nights out of the first summer camp and the remaining 14 out of the next seven. I doubt that any counselor has crossed paths with such extreme cases.

I'd count them if I were the kid's MBC.

I'm basing my prediction on an observation of the COs in our area that field coed crews. Western PA's conservative women are hardly demure. Having sent a daughter to school in the mid southwest, I understand that isn't the case everywhere,

I think it's out of a belief that we have something magical. Those of us on the inside think we're merely capitalizing on the inherent easy-to-please good nature of young boys. Folks on the outside think we've accumulated years of privelage in a society that largely believes boys should be in the woods, and that figures girls don't have time for such shenanigans. We have, if you will, a brain trust. My 90 year old aunt recalls a Campfire Girls program that put her under canvas for multiple weeks through the summer in a program chock full of Indian lore and lots of hikes in the Catskills. Somewhere between then a now, Americans got it into their heads that girls just don't need that sort of thing. Some folks think BSA is uniquely positioned to set things aright.

I'll let folks who've experienced this first-hand share links to details. In general ... First of all, there's paperwork (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf). Councils take interest in successful events design for participants from outside the units' community. They "offer" to supply a professional for your event. (Sometime this is actually quite good. Other times, meh.) They professional will strongly suggest a portion of the proceeds to go back to council. Therefore, he/she will expect expect you to raise the fee sufficiently to meet that earnings target.

Makes sense from a mom who has not tried to give her girl the same opportunities through the GS/USA as her boys had through the BSA. What your argument boils down to is "This is not BSA's problem to solve." And, it's a solid one. Except for that third point of the scout law.

The one the boy won't even try!!!

Although the website by @@perdidochas will probably help you, you may also want to look up a real person in the "contact us" page on http://www.boyscoutsla.org/. They might be able to connect you with several people who have the kind of program you would like to be in. You would join BSA as an adult. And filling out an adult application does result in a background check. For most young people that's no big deal. But the paperwork may slow things down. That's why talking to someone face-to-face will be helpful.