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I corrected my post to be clear that BSA would never try to shut down another youth organization. There is a difference between defending your brand and obstructing assembly. I think we may be splitting hairs here. One or more of these groups could be for all intents and purposes, scouting, they simply are not permitted to use that word. A rose by any other name ... A future where BSA erodes its base and one or more of these organizations swells in numbers is possible, but unlikely. Were that to happen, they could vie for the attention of WOSM, and us boots on the ground would have to decide if we were going to tolerate the concept of a federation of US scouting organizations.

Looks phishy to me. Call your council HQ, and see if anyone knows about it.

Unless, you are trying to capture your opponent's flag unseen!

BSA has failed (nor would it even try) to shut down any other youth organization. Freedom of association and all that ... As "pale horse" mentioned, they have defended their brand (http://www.scouting.org/Licensing/Protecting%20the%20Brand.aspx), but their right to do so is not dependent on Title 36.

BTW @@Ridgerunner, welcome to the forums! You're not gonna like this: Call your SE and let him know things are a little rough with this one. Worried about being blackballed from council? Get thicker skin. Time off council committees is time you can spend hiking and camping independently with your mates, or the kids in your unit, or both. Let them know you'd welcome the favor. Regarding the fellow personally -- in case you wind up having to endure him longer than you'd care to -- let him know every time he does any thing (no matter how small) right. Be positive as possible. That's the only way you'll ever get a crack in the door to advise him on clearing the rotting fish from his shed. Assume that if you don't do it nobody else will.

'Bout half. That's about same the portion as 18 year olds who I've seen come back to serve as ASM in our troop. Mind you we don't have a lot of Eaglets. When not part of adult machinations, they come in clusters. One boy shows how easy it is, two or three others follow, that lasts for a couple of years, then it's back to 17.5 year-olds just getting Life and having to scramble. First, the kids have got to care for one another. So as much as I hate it, meetings need some space for a boy to come share the latest internet gizmo that they can get on their phone. Figuring out that balance between social time and work is part of real life, but I've seen that it doesn't matter if the boy is pre- or post- Eagle. They often don't get the face-to-face time that we think they do outside of scouting. Second, they gotta find a position of responsibility or a service project. Lot's of ours made better den chiefs after becoming Eagle than before. I would actually say that sense of being needed is a higher priority than providing "high adventure" opportunities. Third, leadership training. That can come in the form of NYLT or NAYLE, district-wide service projects, speaking engagements (my SM had me speaking at Elk's clubs and reading parts at 4th of July ceremonies), O/A, or venturing if you trust their advisors to throw down challenges to them. Fourth, convince them that they should rack up Palms. Let them know how many they could earn if they worked steady from their Eagle BoR until age 18. The palm requirements include leadership development like what I listed above. (Funny who that method doesn't just disappear once a kid gets his bird.) Again, a scout who stagnates either pre- or post- Eagle is shortchanging himself and his troop. Finally, recognize the needs of "resume builders". It's not all bad. If they want to become the medical officer on the first colony on Mars, being 1 of 200,000 Eagles is not gonna cut it. Get him into EMT Certification, Search and Rescue, Junior ROTC, Civil Air Patrol ... whatever special programs or unique employment opportunities for high school youth your committee can connect him with. Well, those are the strategies that I've thought of over the years. Like I said, I've seen them keep a boy engaged in Troop life about half the time. I'm not sure what else I could do (besides the usual getting meddlesome adults to back off) to up the percentage.

You all seem to realize how few adults have a say in the matter. But, keep chatting. If I get a moment with someone on the National venturing youth cabinet next month, I'll run your concepts up the chain. Maybe even start at age six ... look out for them lion-venturers.

Okay, all you ageists who think this is a gripe session, please find other threads. I'm sorry to hear about henpecked/rooster-pecked Eagles. (I've had to intervene in some of that shenanigans myself.) But, I've seen just as many at young ages as old. Specifically to those boys, be they 12 or 16, I've said, "Hustle up. Get it done. Move on. I'll understand." But to every other boy I say, "It's a nice feeling to have that silver oval on your left pocket for multiple summer camps. Hustle up. Get it done. Stick around. We got even better stuff." What's in your offering?

hmmm ... Might work for several of our boys that way.

Except from any venturer anywhere.

Well, I've seen it. My 1st PL had Eagled at age 13. Great guy. Stayed in the troop until 18. His younger brother was a good scout as well. There is something to be said for moving your leadership development along. Then use what you've learned by getting Eagle to make your high school career better. But that's just me. How do you all help your young eagles (if you have them) get the most out of their early achievement?

Bottom line: COR calls the shots. If he/she's not displeased with the CC, then it's a lock. DE has no say in the matter. The UC can educate, but has no real say in how adults organize their unit. Not sure what your CC is doing that ruins it for the den. But ... Yes, people are free to transfer to any pack that suits them. They are also free to stay in the pack and work with them. So, you may take action to relocate yourself and your family, and others (or none) in your den may follow suit (or not).

I feel @@MattR's pain. An MC with all good intentions will toss out something that begs the question, "What are we really about?" All eyes are on beleaguered SMs or Advisors and you can see, especially in the newbies, the blood rushing to their face and the veins pulsing out of their temples. So, I've come up with a few ditties to diffuse the tension ... Troop _ _ _, we take bad kids. Forced marches in bear country solves a multitude of ills. Safe scouting: getting you as close to your creator as possible without making it a permanent stay. For this, there are two corollaries: Stupid happens fast. Be prepared = forestalling death. Not everyone advances one rank/year, and we're not gonna worry about it. We want everyone to be 1st class scouts, the concept, not the patch. I sincerely believe that last one, a lot, because I can apply it to venturers, boy scouts, and even cub scouts should be growing in that direction. Heck, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I expect that of scouters. If that's true, "trained" patches, and beads will prove mostly superfluous. And it comes with a vision: The pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates.

The troop we merged with wears them. Scout's decision. I don't propose to probe their minds. As boys get older, they tend to forget to bring it to meetings. I wear my WB kerchief with my venturing uni. I cinch it with a friendship knot. Now that we can officially do so. I am trying to wear it on most scouting activities. Even if I only have an activity shirt. I think if I time it right, I can get the crew to tie dye neckers. Trying to make it seem like it's their idea is tricky.

Son #1's den went to two different troops. (The other troop didn't last many years after that.) Everyone remained friends. In fact he helped one boy who went to the other troop get his band off the ground. That said, his best friends were the ones that went with him to his troop. One of those was actually a groom's man in his wedding.

@@RivetSmasher, Welcome to the forums! There's a lot not to like about the nearby troop. If you're lucky you would be able to change one or two things. But, there is a lot to be said for doing scouting with the boys in your neighborhood and branching out from there. Not the least, is 40 minutes of transit time saved every meeting night and activity. So, if your son is persuaded to go this route, the way you could help this troop is join as either MC or ASM -- whatever they need, serve as directed, listen, get trained, serve some more, give time. Oh, and if someone in your family has land fit for a patrol to camp on, loan property for a weekend. My Wood Badge buddy's ticket was to help his gandson's troop to be more boy led. This was after years of serving on the committee and putting up with religious differences on top of adult micromanagement. It turned out the SM really embraced the idea and the boys really stepped up. Now, if you think that there are personality issues that would impede something like that happening with this troop, then it might be worth that 20 minute drive. We certainly benefited from boys who wanted to travel that far to be in a troop like ours.

I still see scouts showing up to welcome cross-overs at B&G's in running pants. I asked one if he needed uni pants (cause we maintain a uniform closet). "Oh, no sir, I have three pairs at home. Thank you though."

Except, congress isn't doling out congressional charters anymore. Oh, here's a link for Title 36 in one complete document: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ225/pdf/PLAW-105publ225.pdf @@Stosh, you are wishing the tail to wag the dog here. Congress recognized BSA for what it was at the time. The charter allows for organizations to amend their by-laws to achieve their purpose. It's not a leap to imagine that going co-ed could enable more "boys to do things for themselves and others ..." in this day and age. Heck, that's why exploring came about, so that boys could work with their peers (including, and sometimes especially, girls) and do more things for themselves. Congress didn't pitch a fit then. The accept BSA's Report to the Nation from the hands of young women and men in our organization, so they aren't ignorant of our machinations. Basically, it's not up to congress to tell us what to do. They will only recognize us for what we say we do.

I figured, he match your other backstories. Still can't see how that matters. The guy's imploding his troop. One boy's hard work and a BoR's time might get lost in the shuffle. (I don't think it's gonna be voided. You won't need do-overs. Just paperwork and kits to chase.) Being a little pro-active could save some grief. It could also get this guy cussing an even bluer streak than normal. All I'm saying is I have a brother for whom it would have been a big deal if someone didn't care about getting on some wayward SM's (expletive deleted) list and helped him to continue scouting and at least wrap up that Eagle.

FWIW, yesterday I talked to a boy who crossed over to a troop on the opposite side of town from me. It was an odd conversation for him because he wasn't used to adults who knew much about scouting. (Background: the boy has 4 brothers -- two already boy scouts, and parents aren't campers.) Or, maybe he wasn't used to scouters who posed as Sunday School teachers! He didn't see the sense of camping with girls. Basically, girls aren't interested in camping, as far as he can tell. I told him about my venturer who proudly wears her "Boy Scouts Italy" uniform and has been camping with her mates since cubs. He replied. "That's them. We're us."

@@RichardB, thanks for the clarification. This sounds like a bottom-up movement (home-grown pilot?) not unlike many we've seen, and we can look forward to seeing in the future. They seem somewhat careless about risk. Or maybe they've mitigated risk some other way (e.g., the CO purchasing increased liability coverage)? Or maybe they find the risk of not innovating overwhelming the stated risks of going "off the reservation?"

A boy's transfer has nothing to do with his previous troop. If there's an SM who will have the kid, and someone ponies up the $1 and the paperwork, it's a done deal. The EBoR is a done deal. National is probably already processing the paperwork. Your council registrar should make a few phone calls explaining the situation just to be sure this boy's recognition won't be held up by some poor management. The reason for the transfer is to get the scout out of a toxic situation and into the hands of someone who will responsibly handle any materials that come his way. This sounds like a boy who has been isolated from council, and doesn't have any "friends in high places" like a lodge advisor. So, he needs to know that someone he can relate to has his back ... maybe someone who will help him exercise some more leadership and work toward a palm or two. This allows the original SM time to focus on getting his charter together without worrying about this scouts bling floating around in some bureaucratic nether-world. This is important, because if you all can't get this SM back on track, you'll have a troop full of boys to deal with. For anything but Eagle, the essential paperwork is backed up in the boys' books. So if the boys know you didn't let Eagle paperwork slip, they can be confident that you'll keep their advancement on track if they have to jump troops to maintain their registration. I wish someone told my brother this when his SM went AWOL 60 years ago. The thought of hoofing over to the troop on the other side of town to ask a different SM to help him wrap up his trail to Eagle was completely foreign to him.

Well, in the '90s, the house judiciary committee sort of concluded that congressional charters weren't all that essential, and stopped issuing them. Its purpose is (was?) to highlight organizations who do (did?) good by the USA. It's part of Title 36, the same legislation that recognizes national holidays. An interesting read, compared to most legislative mumbo jumbo: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36

Your explorers need to cross the pond and camp with us. We randomize tent placement ... postage stamp footprints of crushed grass is poor form for our lot.

IMHO, retroactively transfer the scout to another troop. Otherwise, have your registrar contact National regarding how to move the boy forward,