qwazse

Except from any venturer anywhere.

Well, I've seen it. My 1st PL had Eagled at age 13. Great guy. Stayed in the troop until 18. His younger brother was a good scout as well. There is something to be said for moving your leadership development along. Then use what you've learned by getting Eagle to make your high school career better. But that's just me. How do you all help your young eagles (if you have them) get the most out of their early achievement?

Bottom line: COR calls the shots. If he/she's not displeased with the CC, then it's a lock. DE has no say in the matter. The UC can educate, but has no real say in how adults organize their unit. Not sure what your CC is doing that ruins it for the den. But ... Yes, people are free to transfer to any pack that suits them. They are also free to stay in the pack and work with them. So, you may take action to relocate yourself and your family, and others (or none) in your den may follow suit (or not).

I feel @@MattR's pain. An MC with all good intentions will toss out something that begs the question, "What are we really about?" All eyes are on beleaguered SMs or Advisors and you can see, especially in the newbies, the blood rushing to their face and the veins pulsing out of their temples. So, I've come up with a few ditties to diffuse the tension ... Troop _ _ _, we take bad kids. Forced marches in bear country solves a multitude of ills. Safe scouting: getting you as close to your creator as possible without making it a permanent stay. For this, there are two corollaries: Stupid happens fast. Be prepared = forestalling death. Not everyone advances one rank/year, and we're not gonna worry about it. We want everyone to be 1st class scouts, the concept, not the patch. I sincerely believe that last one, a lot, because I can apply it to venturers, boy scouts, and even cub scouts should be growing in that direction. Heck, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I expect that of scouters. If that's true, "trained" patches, and beads will prove mostly superfluous. And it comes with a vision: The pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates.

The troop we merged with wears them. Scout's decision. I don't propose to probe their minds. As boys get older, they tend to forget to bring it to meetings. I wear my WB kerchief with my venturing uni. I cinch it with a friendship knot. Now that we can officially do so. I am trying to wear it on most scouting activities. Even if I only have an activity shirt. I think if I time it right, I can get the crew to tie dye neckers. Trying to make it seem like it's their idea is tricky.

Son #1's den went to two different troops. (The other troop didn't last many years after that.) Everyone remained friends. In fact he helped one boy who went to the other troop get his band off the ground. That said, his best friends were the ones that went with him to his troop. One of those was actually a groom's man in his wedding.

@@RivetSmasher, Welcome to the forums! There's a lot not to like about the nearby troop. If you're lucky you would be able to change one or two things. But, there is a lot to be said for doing scouting with the boys in your neighborhood and branching out from there. Not the least, is 40 minutes of transit time saved every meeting night and activity. So, if your son is persuaded to go this route, the way you could help this troop is join as either MC or ASM -- whatever they need, serve as directed, listen, get trained, serve some more, give time. Oh, and if someone in your family has land fit for a patrol to camp on, loan property for a weekend. My Wood Badge buddy's ticket was to help his gandson's troop to be more boy led. This was after years of serving on the committee and putting up with religious differences on top of adult micromanagement. It turned out the SM really embraced the idea and the boys really stepped up. Now, if you think that there are personality issues that would impede something like that happening with this troop, then it might be worth that 20 minute drive. We certainly benefited from boys who wanted to travel that far to be in a troop like ours.

I still see scouts showing up to welcome cross-overs at B&G's in running pants. I asked one if he needed uni pants (cause we maintain a uniform closet). "Oh, no sir, I have three pairs at home. Thank you though."

Except, congress isn't doling out congressional charters anymore. Oh, here's a link for Title 36 in one complete document: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ225/pdf/PLAW-105publ225.pdf @@Stosh, you are wishing the tail to wag the dog here. Congress recognized BSA for what it was at the time. The charter allows for organizations to amend their by-laws to achieve their purpose. It's not a leap to imagine that going co-ed could enable more "boys to do things for themselves and others ..." in this day and age. Heck, that's why exploring came about, so that boys could work with their peers (including, and sometimes especially, girls) and do more things for themselves. Congress didn't pitch a fit then. The accept BSA's Report to the Nation from the hands of young women and men in our organization, so they aren't ignorant of our machinations. Basically, it's not up to congress to tell us what to do. They will only recognize us for what we say we do.

I figured, he match your other backstories. Still can't see how that matters. The guy's imploding his troop. One boy's hard work and a BoR's time might get lost in the shuffle. (I don't think it's gonna be voided. You won't need do-overs. Just paperwork and kits to chase.) Being a little pro-active could save some grief. It could also get this guy cussing an even bluer streak than normal. All I'm saying is I have a brother for whom it would have been a big deal if someone didn't care about getting on some wayward SM's (expletive deleted) list and helped him to continue scouting and at least wrap up that Eagle.

FWIW, yesterday I talked to a boy who crossed over to a troop on the opposite side of town from me. It was an odd conversation for him because he wasn't used to adults who knew much about scouting. (Background: the boy has 4 brothers -- two already boy scouts, and parents aren't campers.) Or, maybe he wasn't used to scouters who posed as Sunday School teachers! He didn't see the sense of camping with girls. Basically, girls aren't interested in camping, as far as he can tell. I told him about my venturer who proudly wears her "Boy Scouts Italy" uniform and has been camping with her mates since cubs. He replied. "That's them. We're us."

@@RichardB, thanks for the clarification. This sounds like a bottom-up movement (home-grown pilot?) not unlike many we've seen, and we can look forward to seeing in the future. They seem somewhat careless about risk. Or maybe they've mitigated risk some other way (e.g., the CO purchasing increased liability coverage)? Or maybe they find the risk of not innovating overwhelming the stated risks of going "off the reservation?"

A boy's transfer has nothing to do with his previous troop. If there's an SM who will have the kid, and someone ponies up the $1 and the paperwork, it's a done deal. The EBoR is a done deal. National is probably already processing the paperwork. Your council registrar should make a few phone calls explaining the situation just to be sure this boy's recognition won't be held up by some poor management. The reason for the transfer is to get the scout out of a toxic situation and into the hands of someone who will responsibly handle any materials that come his way. This sounds like a boy who has been isolated from council, and doesn't have any "friends in high places" like a lodge advisor. So, he needs to know that someone he can relate to has his back ... maybe someone who will help him exercise some more leadership and work toward a palm or two. This allows the original SM time to focus on getting his charter together without worrying about this scouts bling floating around in some bureaucratic nether-world. This is important, because if you all can't get this SM back on track, you'll have a troop full of boys to deal with. For anything but Eagle, the essential paperwork is backed up in the boys' books. So if the boys know you didn't let Eagle paperwork slip, they can be confident that you'll keep their advancement on track if they have to jump troops to maintain their registration. I wish someone told my brother this when his SM went AWOL 60 years ago. The thought of hoofing over to the troop on the other side of town to ask a different SM to help him wrap up his trail to Eagle was completely foreign to him.

Well, in the '90s, the house judiciary committee sort of concluded that congressional charters weren't all that essential, and stopped issuing them. Its purpose is (was?) to highlight organizations who do (did?) good by the USA. It's part of Title 36, the same legislation that recognizes national holidays. An interesting read, compared to most legislative mumbo jumbo: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36

Your explorers need to cross the pond and camp with us. We randomize tent placement ... postage stamp footprints of crushed grass is poor form for our lot.

IMHO, retroactively transfer the scout to another troop. Otherwise, have your registrar contact National regarding how to move the boy forward,

For your scouts who are having a tough time swimming ... Just heard a great story from Mike Massimino on the Moth Radio Hour. It might be airing on your public radio station this week. It will be available online in a couple of days. When it does, you should be able to find a link here: https://themoth.org/radio-hour/live-from-the-world-science-festival

@@Gwaihir and the ban hammer drop! That just sounds so cool and windlordy.

Well, my church has welcomed athiests, (and other non-Christians) and its creed hasn't changed and its numbers are strong. One or two of those athiests eventually committed their lives to Christ, but not all. They were all as welcome as long as they could stand us. BSA's approach is simply not compatible with how the congregation sees reverence, and therefore has less value as a program for its youth. The premium is on programs that allow for evangelism, and step one in that process: open the door. That's not to say brand dilution won't be a real concern, but I personally would feel more of a Christian in scouting if I could spend time talking to athiests about reverence than telling them not to waste time with an application.

In college a Japanese friend told me about his time (would have been in the late 1970's) as a youth leader of his YMCA. He was asked to lead grace. He told me he had no clue what he was doing. I was pretty skeptical of cemeteries seminaries at the time, so I told him his prayer was no doubt as well received as that of most clergy.

"About 650" per http://adulteaglescout.com/.We have no idea how the numbers in the USA would shake out. Ten or ten thousand, it still represents a valuation of identity over skill. The quote Stosh gave makes clear it is as much about Eagle as anything else. Having taken Venturers into the deep woods, and seeing them find plenty of opportunities for guys to be with guys; and girls, girls, and doing similar for occasional Jr. High Youth. I might be poisoned by "the bug juice." But I'm seeing the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates increasingly occur, when it occurs, independent of sex or faith, without the BSA. Venturing offers no trail to First Class, if it did, gates would go up ... as quickly as they did when Chiefs tried to tap out their female venturing counterparts. Maybe it is important for some boys to have an "identity shelter", and your neck of the woods may need just that. I have my own preferences in the paragons of virtue who advise my kids. But fretting about what someone does with the needs they see in their community in some other nook in the country ... it's making me feel like we've been played via the game of scouting. I'd rather play the game.

Someone gets sick of some adults across the country earning ranks. Result: bookwork badges suitable for school kids become required, field study badges become elective. Someone pitches a fit over some scouter who lets a patrol hike with their girlfriends or over a girl making rank. Result: we don't really know who all of the Eagle Scouts in this country are. Then someone hears about some godless kid in the ranks, and someone else makes a federal case about it. Result: public institutions are not to accommodate, making the organization increasingly beholden to some moral majority. Purges ensue. The boys need more adult leaders, so women step forward, but women never had an opportunity to prove skills by making rank, so we create weekend training because, well, surely adults can learn in a day what it takes boys years. Then someone in one part of the country gets all up in arms about activists in another part of the country riding on the organization's coat tails by touting an out and proud SM. Zealous men an women ask the now polarized organization to protect our boys. Then someone wants us to sift boys for sexual persuasion like we sift adults. Diminishing by a thousand cuts. So, like some lackluster cheerleading squad, scouters get deluded into thinking some of those cuts are what makes us special: Pardon me, but I never really knew that I earned anything besides Eagle Scout. Nobody told me it was at all special because girls couldn't earn it. Once I learned that men used to be able to earn it, it felt a little less special to me. All those SM/ASM who felt they were a little "less qualified" because they missed some opportunity in their youth. Why can't we say, "well, what's holding you back now?" All those venturers to whom boys said, "Your Silver will never be as good as my Eagle." I know some SMs who would have liked to give those young women a handbook and say "Show them how it's done." In fact, one SM quite proudly told me about having sisters work through the requirements even if national won't give them the rank. Compare to your vision Eagle milled boys, I think those girls add value to the badge because they want it's substance, not some line on a resume. We can spout off about youth development, membership numbers, etc ... But don't think for a moment that any pride in my bling stems from it being a boys only (no men, no girls, no women, no godless) award.

One of this town's favorite weekly monologues opened with our hero reading Boy's Life in a waiting room ... He isn't a scout dad (evident by lack of experience completing medical records), but many of us relate on multiple levels.

'bout time someone started to heard these renegades back into the loving arms of their exclusive progenitors.

@@RivetSmasher, welcome to the forums! And, thanks for all of your service to the boys. So, one of them post-modern nomads, eh? Contact your new council's lodge advisor, I'm sure he'll plug you in.