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@Col. FlaggThat ain't no friendship knot. So, not even close. Yes, the reds and the Nazi's appropriated symbols of patriotism and righteousness ... ends justifying the means and all that. But even if a trade/government/public/other group appropriates the fashion to the same visual effect, they are to large degree doing so because of what scouting has made of it. But to poke at Mike and 'BPack a little more ... the thread's title is basically a call on the rest of us to abandon a practice because "my boys don't like it / they think its dumb / they feel itchy with it on" and any other number of whiny excuses. In other words "Because I can't have fun with it, you shouldn't either." It's like filing a cease and desist order while at the party. It's a pretty lame way to stop the dancing. At best people will keep asking you to hop on the dance floor with them. At worst you'll succeed in shutting it down and having everyone around you resent you for it.

Scouts reading this: please, no hanging scars! Your SM really does not deserve to be saddled with the paperwork involved in that one. Remember, Mr. Eastwood's was applied by a make-up artist. The neckerchief, however, was quite real, quite cool, and quite straightforward to imitate with a modicum of paperwork.

I'm quite sure the truck stop gift shop of 35 years ago did not calibrate measures with the Internet.

Most definitely honor the boy's and the parents' hard work. Let the other boy's parents learn from their example.

CP, welcome back! Missed you. @@Ranman328, sad 2 c u go. Come back when your dander's down.

Welcome the scout. Ask him more about how he made his car, what gave him the idea, etc ... Get to know his family better. Have fun. As far as voting goes, be sure your assumption is correct. (It might not be.) If it is ask the committee politely that next year, they have only racers vote. But, never let this stuff get under your skin.

Brace yourself for a future of fun. If your son's growth spurt comes on before he wears his shirt out, don't let that uniform sit idle in his closet. Remember that not every family can handle the sticker shock.

Ma' Sallam, CP. Hope to heat from you once the blood stops boiling.

All MB's matter!

Lest we forgot that we need a place for our slides here's a nifty piece c/o Bryan On Scouting http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/09/08/neckerchief-slides-whats-go-look/, and a Tuesday Talkback that's accumulated some thoughtful discussion http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/02/03/scout-neckerchiefs-yea-or-nay/, the latest comment (http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/02/03/scout-neckerchiefs-yea-or-nay/#comment-170632) involves how that collection of traded neckers can still infect 21st century boys.

Touching piece by a Girl Scout in our area http://www.alleghenyfront.org/please-dont-take-away-my-girl-scout-camp/ regarding five camp closures.

Not denying that it's optional, just affirming that it's an object of admiration in a myriad of contexts in the U.S. It's no more an object of ridicule than the "love your Muslim neighbor" t-shirt my friend gave me. Which reminds me, time to go to the coffee shop.

i don't know, there might be some beaches where "just a necker" might get you called out for being overdressed, but society is becoming a little more tolerant of that whole behavior, I'm told. With regard to wearing a necker, say, over your rain slicker on a crappy fall day with a troop who aren't at all in uniform .... Oh my, all that ridicule ... I should be scarred for life. Instead I opted to grow a pair. Occupied myself with collecting rainwater off my tarp (the only drink that didn't taste like fracking fluid), shooing adults away from the boy cooking (burning?) grilled cheese sandwiches, and setting up my pizelle iron and cranking out cookies through the evening. The boys in this community are welcome to associate my growing obsession with my necker as some kind of crazy, or they can decide at the end of the day that that stupid piece of cloth -- even when not over epaulets and silver knots -- represents the kind of scout they want to be.

Well, being courteous and helpful and good at lighting fires seem to be better identifiers. How many scouts even tie theirs like a chef's cravat? Maybe at the Dutch oven exhibit? The fact is that there are two diverging trends from the full uni + necker. One is the current tan shirt and pants without the necker, the other is the necker with whatever is practical for the job at hand.

Wow, it looks like you drew the short straw. Once you know who the Cubmaster is (he/she should be one managing pack meetings) do not hesitate to give him/her a call. The buck stops at the Cubmaster, so he would like to know if things aren't working in a den. He certainly would know if your paperwork got processed, because he signs the membership applications. You're not getting anyone in trouble. It's not like someone's pay is gonna get docked. Someone might just get the assistance they need to run a successful den.

Welcome to the forums! So, is your scout a lion or tiger cub? I'm sorry to hear of your negative experience. You should talk to your Pack's cubmaster. The Boy's Life subscription should have been ordered when you filled out your son's youth application. Your cubmaster should be able to double-check if the paperwork went through and your son is on the roster. Some people just don't do E-mail. So, you're just gonna have to settle for a phone call or face-to-face. Now, are you in a position to volunteer to host one activity for your son's den? Sometimes, by you or the boy's father offering to contribute an activity, and a couple of other boys' parents offering something else on a different month, you all will be able to work up a fun schedule and work around your den leaders' foibles.

Short answer: no. It's a cleverly slapped together manipulation of Learning for Life.

@@EmberMike and @@Back PackYou may think you sound all "scouting for the 21st century", but in the process you are discounting scouts who aren't living in your bubble. True, the necker was standardized as part of the uniform "only" in the 1930s. So, it's been a moniker of the organization for a measly 90% of its existence. Now, with the rise of specialized manufacture, units can get any style they desire produced on demand. (Which is probably why BSA is going out of the necker business.) I'm actually kind of glad BSA is getting out of the custom neckerchief business, and looking forward to see what youth come up with Hats? I've seen more styles come and go than any other clothing feature. Worse, if you don't like your troop's hat, there's no folding it in your pocket! Good luck getting all the scouts in the nation to settle on one of those. Meanwhile, that piece of cloth is not officially part of the venturing uniform, yet I see more area and regional venturing leaders with a necker than I ever did 10 years ago.

Every crew meeting and activity the Italian exchange student can make. And, occasional Sunday dinners ... Some weekdays when the college is closed. (That was when the Czech scout saw Son #2 and his buddy on the way to a meeting neckerless.) ... And the occasional baby shower/wine tasting party of 50 year old former patrol members. Comes from teaching our kids to talk to strangers. The random scouts are among the strangest. But, this isn't a different country. Troops 1/4 mile apart in the same town decided differently weather or not to break ranks with the most original part of their uniform. .... The older ones who are trying to find a scouting community for there kids do ask that.

Last issue first: troops vary widely as to how they integrate their adult volunteers. So watch and learn. So, your pack is okay with its collection of leaders? Or, is one den having trouble finding a leader? You might feel in there or help train someone who is not so confident. There are also things tasks your district may need help with. Is there a coed crew who needs female chaperons from time to time? And there's also the rest of the world (your sones school, church, sports) who miht be served by the stuff you've learned over the years.

Quick question, were your TC parents troop alumni?

By way of "encouraging," does that include warning them that they run the hazard that any scout from anywhere else in the world (from any other time in history) will, upon seeing them in their pretty tan shirts and glorious epaulets, challenge them with, "Where's your neckerchief?" And, how often should the boys have this vote? Once? If so what right do your boys have making a decision for scouts decades later? Keep in mind: fashion's fickle. Yearly? If so, things like this can be divisive. (I can see some SPL's campaign plank: "Repeal and replace my predecessor's affordable necker act!") Basically, if you're troop sports a neckerchief, I'd advise just going with tradition unless a super-majority of boys (including troop alumni and feeder packs) wants to change. If not, I'd advise going with the flow, but modelling your desired behavior, offering newly-forming patrols the opportunity to innovate.

Nothing could po$$ibly change that policy? Not even an attempt to reverse the declining purchases of World Crests? As I said, we are talking about a very unlikely scenario. I don't foresee a boots-on-the-ground insurrection.

@Anklyus, you face a double-edged sword. In a very large troop, you have more eyes on the boys, but you're more likely to have some boys find ways to thwart regimented discipline, especially in tight quarters. When our troop was large, such pyromania often occurred within a tarp's space of adults. In a small troop, being a first-class scout (concept, not patch) is at such a premium that boys are "up or out". In other words, they conform to the SM's goals for discipline -- especially fire safety -- in order to be trusted to hike and camp independently with their mates. Or, they become the cause of the patrol's hike plans being rejected. It's the long leash principle. The patrol of hooligans will be rewarded with frequent SPL and adult visits. If the PL can't account for the location of his boys, there are big issues. (Sometimes if he can there are still problems ... as when my patrol "borrowed" the spray paint used to make our patrol flag and improvised a flame thrower. But nobody was under any delusions that the SM being any closer would have prevented such shenanigans.) However, the patrols who shores up their members, over time, will be awarded with new hike plans and challenges/responsibilities. Fire safety is, of course, only one dimension. It's all part of inculcating a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates.

After getting directions from everyone associated with our troop (who wasn't in venturing and had not taken training, nor really talked to the youth in my crew) about how I should manage as an advisor (as opposed to how the Venturing Leadership Manual directed), I went to my council's venturing committee for advice and asked, "Am I right, or am I crazy?" One seasoned advisor replied, "You're probably are crazy, but you're also right." You have a script. There's a link to it here http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Leaders/CubmasterResources.aspx. The .pdf on that page is designed for new leaders. Print it or ask your DE if he/she has copies pre-printed, and circulate it. It references The Cub Scout Leader's Guide. Waste no more breath writing your own outlines. Tell anyone who cares, "We operate by the book. Here's the book." Proceed. The CC trusts you. He also respects the current CM. Get over it. You can ask for an immediate transition, but if you don't get one, suck it up. Yes, your pack may go through a wad of cash. Yes, you might have 8 dozen girl-scouts swamping your PWD. There might be 12 more months of fiascos. Bide your time, study the manuals. Learn to respectfully disagree.