qwazse

It's a big country. The guy who moves in as dad-in-residence without rushing through a ceremony ... In some parts, he's a hero. In other parts, he's a fool. (Or, maybe she is.) It's not so much the CO's affiliation that matters, but the scout's. If the scout discussed his options with his religious leaders and his and her family, and they all agreed that this was the best course of action, then props to the scout. If the scout said that he was disregarding his religion and what the families have asked, then maybe he's not Eagle material. Even then, this is a "time will tell" situation. But, because of that ageist 18-year-old deadline, folks are short-changed of the time they need for a good decision. The better move might have been to say, "Spend a couple years to sort out the right thing to do in this situation, then come back for your BoR. If you need some support, we have an SM who has helped other guys navigate these choppy waters, and could use some help at meetings."

To be clear, I wasn't talking about HA (although the backpacking example for 11-13 year olds might be considered such). An amusing example was when we had a crew officer's meeting and concluded that it would be fun to have a self-defense trainer come in. I gave the VP of Program the contact info for a guy who volunteered with us a few years previously and suggested that she invite him to the next meeting. She was expecting it to be another planning session. Instead he showed up with all of his gear and had the youth practicing kicks, throws, and escapes within the hour! Multiply this by every activity, including how supper gets cooked, etc ... and you can see little differences in leadership style that fell along the lines of which organization the venturer had spent his/her junior high years with. There were positives in both, and it was fun watching the scouts learn from each other. The youth who did not have time in either organization had it the toughest ... mainly because they didn't recognize when they were actually leading. For example, you might lose in making a decision and feel like you were wasting everyone's time while rain started coming down, but the evening before, you did take time to have tea with the new kid ... and have no idea how important that was at the time. The trained scouts had a sense that both of those activities were just part of the leadership process (and that getting full experience of hiking and camping with loved-by-weather-me was inevitable). Oh it matters. The young engineers were around table this weekend and they already have pretty well-formed critiques of their employers' (and potential employers') leadership styles. From what I gathered, superficial attempts at interpersonal style are already red flags to them.

@Treflienne I agree that it's not a very tight thesis. And, as we know, her conclusion is not universally accepted among progressive women. There are some who prefer to develop more directive leadership as a path to equality as opposed to more interpersonal leadership (my terms, not the author's). They see GS/USA's "progress" as more akin to "deviation." So, rather than BSA aligning to GS/USA, they wished that GS/USA would be more like BSA, have been asking for that for many years, and are now voting with their feet. As to the handbooks promoting different leadership styles, I have seen this play out on several occasions. Venturers coming from the GS/USA are invested in "emotion work", and they are sometimes surprised at how quickly good things can get done when they are more directive. Those coming from BSA or elsewhere, sometimes could stand to do a little "emotion work." Certainly, as I train boys in backpacking, the natural leaders need a lot of work learning how to pay attention to the needs of the patrol (e.g., load balancing, making sure everyone's had breakfast before moving out, etc ...).

@PACAN, they are backpedaling. They are re-writing the minutes to say the board suspended and reconvened, closing its discussion on a different date. I would not be surprised if the District Advancement Chair does apologize in person. Hopefully the scouter who raised a ruckus does too. Make sure the members of the board get invited to the court of honor! Let this water run over the dam!

So, I found the following thesis that compares the organization's' handbooks: The author's analysis is admittedly qualitative, but I think more insightful.

A good stake lifter (a.k.a. loop of cord) is worth a thousand tent corners!

I've helped a couple of GS's on their "journeys". But, looking at a small sampling from the outside, I'd be hard-pressed to fit them into particular categories. Categorizing MB's themselves would be fraught with error. Although, sometimes, the snap judgement -- what you get from journalists instead of say professors of education research -- is the most practical one. It's interesting that more of the Boy Scout's modern offerings got put in "other" ... a grey area for sure. Then there's the notion of what's offered vs. what's actually taken.

A common error is to tally the BSA and GS/USA curricula by categorizing available merit badges. I figure the PoR's (SPL, PL, QM, etc ...) teach more on running a household/caring for others than related MBs. Factor those in, and that graphic for boys is 1/2 red and purple. That's on the Boy Scout side. Are there comparable positions on the Cadette and Ambassador side that aren't encapsulated in MBs?

If I could up-vote @perdidochas's comment twice, I would. As a scout, I loved helping with other scouts' projects be cause they were role models on how to get into the nitty-gritty and get stuff done. It was also clear to me that projects weren't hard, and neither were MBs, really. My PL earned his Eagle at age 14. But, I also wasn't about to spend every weekend chipping away at some MB, so I was not going to follow in his footsteps. The difference between me earning Eagle at 14 and earning it at 17.5: cartoons and NASCAR. It's just that simple.

Welcome to the forums! It's interesting that there are some people who plan around the weather forecast. Then there are the weather forecasts that plan around some people. Anymore, if I don't need to shield from sun, I don't set up a tent. I have no problem with Coleman ... and there are a couple in the garage that my scouts and venturers have used -- after suitable reinforcement for winds. It's just that I can buy a lot of tarps and chord for the price of a tent (even a very cheap one).

Welcome, and thanks for all you do for the youth!

@Tired_Eagle_Feathers so, you and your boy are pretty much how Son #2 and I were. He and his buddies often passed on closing campfire for a more sedate time at the troop site. Son #1 was all about his buddy's going through every skit they could think of. Even in our crew they would be skipping down the road, or calling out to seagulls at 5 am, to the puzzlement of their friends (guys and girls) who never came up through cubs. But, here's the part that puzzled me ... they only yucked it up on campouts. When I suggested they put together a vaudeville act for the school talent show ... crickets.

The other lesson: a lot of us are slackers. We take 7 years to amass the skills and confidence to rally our community to do relatively a modest project. Fine, whatever. The problem is that some slackers don't want to see 14 year-olds (or younger) showing the world how easy earning Eagle really is. It shines a light on the reality that, for most of us, our scouting career is laughing and carousing through the woods (ideally without leaving a trace ) ... then at age 16, a switch gets flipped, and the Eagle motor finally gets running. We need folks like @The Latin Scot and (hopefully, soon) @Clstlgson to remind us that some boys are just made to hustle up, get the engine out of idle, and get 'er done.

New tagline: "BSA: where, in 2019, girls can become First Class scouts, just like they used to."

Yes, appeal. Your son is learning that sometimes well-meaning people disagree and people like him get stuck in the middle. By requesting an independent review, he's helping all parties involved learn a little. If "project part two" is a good idea, he should take it on, just for fun. In fact, since he's so young, and he has one conservation project under his belt, have him look into the Hornaday Award. It and Eagle Palms are great "next steps."

The Short list: My mom's sister, who gave me my 1st Cub Scout uniform for Christmas. Best scout I ever knew: aged out at 2nd class. Recruited me into his troop. Was APL, then PL. My Webelos DL, who took us out and taught us to shoot his 38 special. The SPL who patiently showed me how to start a fire from coals when we were the first people up in the morning. My Jamboree SM. First time I ever knew an SM could be so young ... excited to get back to his wife and baby. The Jamboree ASMs. Guys who always were there for everyone. My oldest brother. Some of whose gear I've appropriated to this day. My other brother, who's bow and arrow I "borrowed" until I could master marksmanship. My other brother, who had all the tales of what not to do with your equipment! Fuzzy. (No, I didn't forget his name. That's what everyone called him when they weren't calling him professor.) The most talented guy in town. He made patches for our camporees. Challenged us to find Hawkweed on a scavenger hunt. Knew every musical instrument known to man. His wife had the best sense of humor (necessarily). Scout sisters, one of whom wrote a poem for the program on my Eagle ceremony. SM SM's sister Green Bar Bill via his Boy's Life Articles. The SMs and Coaches of my kids. My councils venturing officers committee. Whoever paid for my oldest Aunt to go to Campfire Girl summer camp during the depression era. It takes a village to raise a scouter.

@tripexistence welcome and thanks in advance for all you'll do for the youth? First, resources. You say that you're short on American boys. How about English-speakers from other countries? Even non-English speakers? You got the handbook. That's a good step one. Pick activities that would be fun for your scout to do on his own. As far as uniform: Try starting with just the neckerchiefs. Those ship easily. Make slides with local materials. Wait until someone is coming from the States, then ask them for a favor to get shirts and slacks etc... Oh, definitions, Cubmaster leads a pack which is comprised of multiple Dens, each with it's own den leader. Your situation is much different than that, and you will have to contact someone at BSA about how to register. Others here may have specific suggestions of who that should be.

Two things: First. When I was a crew advisor with adult drama swirling around me I used the phrase: "I'm not about to be bothered by the burrs up anyone's butt, especially yours." I only needed to use it once per aggrieved adult. It will be a little bit harder for you to do that because of age differences. You could try saying, "I'm working for smiles." But, I'm afraid they won't take that as an indication that you're expecting them to stop jawing, to make peace, and get to the work at hand. Second. Team up with another troop/crew. Go to roundtable. See who's out there, and see if they have room for you an a couple of boys in whatever they are doing (or if you have room in your plans for one of their patrols). I've seen on more than one occasion that scout is friendly.

Once they have a calendar of events. Your guys have to get in one school assembly where you and them present it to boys their age. Search this forum for "boy talks" or "scout talks" to get an idea of what works and what doesn't.

Bare clause!

My dad did a tour with the national guard in Hawaii, one of my brothers was born at the time. (I hope one of us still has the telegram from Mom announcing the birth.) A bit of a hardship, but not much. He returned state-side no worse for the wear. Cushy assignment ... check. He would have recommended it to anyone. About month later (I think) Pearl harbor was bombed. So, all of us know (or should know) that most of our vets aren't going to literally take flak. But, for five years, the odds are a good bit higher against you than most civilians. That's the whole point of a war machine ... just few are the blade's edge, while the rest provide the heft to drive it home. We are right to be grateful. But I also can respect the discomfort implied by the standard greeting. So, keep considering ... please.

It doesn't sound like you vets are alone. Congressman elect Dan Crenshaw brought that point home in a conversation with Pete Davidson on Saturday Night Live. Crenshaw said he didn't like "Thank you for your service." and suggested the following: So, vets. Never forget. Does that come across better?

Bud Scouts of America There may be thorns or roses, but these kids are our buds!

And, one could argue that, by not including "girls" in any of it's brands (e.g., the Explorers of the seventies could have been renamed "Boy and Girl Career Scouts of America"), BSA sacrificed market share. In fact, when the ODL uniforms came out, it made no sense to me, as a youth, that Explorers' uniforms were not made to be the tan shirts with green epaulets. But now, it seems like it was a back-door way of signalling to GS/USA that it was reserving its signature brand for boys.