NJCubScouter

If I were you, I would put your helmet on, now.

Assuming "one" is supposed to refer to me, I actually do have some experience in working with co-ed groups. Not as much as you apparently, but some. When my son was in high school I was a mentor for his FIRST robotics team, which was co-ed. That group is actually pretty similar to a Boy Scout troop or Girl Scout troop, and there were members of both on the robotics team. The goals of FIRST include leadership development, community service and character (as expressed in the slogan "gracious professionalism." Sounds familiar. The organization of the team into sub-teams with a captain of each, and an overall captain, with adult advisors and mentors, sounds familiar too. Obviously the vehicle for developing these qualities is different, and there is at least one additional goal in FIRST (exposing students - of both genders - to potential careers in engineering, computer science and other technical fields; and there is also a business management aspect to it for those who don't want to build or program a robot), but I think it is more similar than different. I would grant that there are some differences in the group dynamic between all-boy groups and coed groups, which is why I am concerned about how this new era is going to work out for the BSA. But I don't know of anything in the PROGRAM (advancement requirements, organizational structure, etc.) that would not benefit girls as well as boys. I asked you whether you had an example of something in the program that would not apply to girls, and in your lengthy later post, you really haven't. Your time isn't up, though. As for that later post, I don't have time to go point by point, but I will just address this for now: It is my understanding that the demand for Philmont exceeds its capacity, and therefore there are lotteries to determine who can go. Even assuming you are correct that fewer people are attracted to Philmont than there once were (and I have no reason to believe that is the case), if demand still exceeds supply, it doesn't really make a difference.

It appears that the mission has become to help children become adults through character building and leadership development (and fitness and service to others.) I cannot think of a single part of the official Cub Scout or Boy Scout program that would not apply to girls. Can you?

In the case of the Central New Jersey Council, their two camps remained the property of the council, which continued to exist as a non-operating corporation for the purpose of wrapping up its financial affairs, including selling the camps. At least one of the camps (Kittatinny Mountain Scout Reservation) had already been closed by the time the council ceased operating, and both are currently closed. I do not know whether either has been sold yet. My council is one of the "neighboring councils", but as far as I know our council has nothing to do with those camps. Our troop did camp at each one at least once while I have been with the troop.

I don't think that's correct, and I think @ianwilkins is correct. BSA (national) is a non-profit corporation, but each of the councils is a separate non-profit corporation and operates the BSA's programs in its area, under a charter from National. National owns assets (including the high adventure bases, and presumably the hq property in Irving) and the councils own other assets (including the council camps.) There may be an exception here and there where a "council camp" is actually (or allegedly) owned by some kind of trust entity, such as that one camp somewhere that pops up in the news every couple of years because the trustees and the council are fighting over it. But the one entity that does NOT own that camp is national. I believe the council camps operate under guidelines handed down by national, and national does have some leverage over the council when it believes a camp should be closed, but the ownership is in the councils.

That's perfectly reasonable. This whole thing is kind of a leap into the unknown. The reason I reacted to your "old timers" post was that it painted with a broad brush. Whether to take the leap into the unknown with the BSA, or not, is an individual decision.

I am not defending the decision, I am just saying I am not going to quit over it, and I don't think most other Scouters are going to either.

If the Scouts want a Rat Study merit badge, they can earn the Mammal Study merit badge and choose the rat as the "one nongame mammal" they wish to study in requirement 3©. There's a merit badge for almost every interest.

I think the motivation of the vast majority of Scouters is to be helpful to the Scouts. Sometimes that "help" can be counterproductive, mostly because Boy Scouts is supposed to be boy-run. It would not be the only area of life where the effect of one's actions do not match the good motivations that drive those actions. I have also seen at least one instance of a Scouter whose life outside Scouting was not going so well, and who held onto a position longer than they should have, in order to fill a "void." That was good for neither the person or for the troop, especially since the person was Committee Chair. Hopefully those kinds of situations happen rarely, but they do happen. As for the "adults forming patrols" thing, I have always thought that was kind of silly, but mostly harmless. Most of the adults in our troop wear an "Old Goat Patrol" patch on their uniform. I never have.

I don't think most Scouters are involved in order to "relive their youth", but I think a certain amount of that is inevitable anyway, and it's not necessarily bad. I think it's natural that if a person was a Boy Scout, and is now helping Boy Scouts as an adult, to think back to one's younger days sometimes and to compare it to how things are today (for better or for worse.) I will admit that at one point, one of my fellow Scouters caught me using the phrase "when I was a Scout" a little too often in conversation. I suppose it can be annoying when done in excess. So I try to say it less now, but I still think about the old days sometimes.

Of course, many of us "old timers" (a phrase I had never really thought of as including me, but at this point I guess it does) are not leaving Scouting at all. I don't believe Scouting has "left" me, either. The opportunities are still there to help the boys find a good path in life. And regardless of my reservations, if the youth members in my unit include females at some point, that's just more of an opportunity to help youth.

Scoutmom954, welcome to the forum! I am moving your post to the section for Cub Scout topics.

There's even a song about it.

You are fortunate to apparently have so many people in your local area who enjoy paying exorbitant prices for popcorn. (And the prices are exorbitant partly because of "what the council gets out of it.")

Or maybe this: Credit: Wikipedia

Seriously? If so, shouldn't the flag be a pyramid with a human eye in the middle of it, like on the back of a one dollar bill?

I guess I don't hang around Klansmen enough to know these things. (That was an attempt at humor.)

What is the name of the patrol? And forgive me if this sounds stupid, but if it looks like a KKK hood and robe (which are white), why does red make it worse?

I don't remember that. Which doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means I don't remember it. I just did a couple of Google searches and they didn't turn up anything. And I searched the Dale decision for the word "charter" and there was nothing in the context that you are talking about. Can you recall any more details?

Maybe this will help: http://www.venturing.org/ Though it would be nice if they actually put some information on the front page rather than just a row of menus. But presumably the menus lead to some actual information.

Some of them, yes.

I wonder how many of those 43,000+ are actual human beings.

In our council the "suggested donation" this year is $167 per family (or at least that's what I recall from the flyer that I briefly glimpsed at a roundtable.) I am not aware of any "penalties" for a unit failing to do so, other than the occasional whining-and-complaining phone call that our CC and/or SM receive when our troop doesn't come anywhere near the council's "goal" for us... and doesn't go to summer camp at our council's camp... and doesn't sell popcorn... have I left anything out?

I would bet $1 (my standard maximum wager) that there are more Republicans than Democrats on the BSA Executive Board (or whatever the highest governing body is.) Not that it matters... and not that either one of us would be able to get the information necessary to prove whether I'm correct or not.

Uh huh.